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      02-16-2018, 04:40 PM   #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmatre View Post
Seems you just did it.

Because a measure wouldn't have STOPPED this guy, it is of no benefit?

Maybe it wouldn't have stopped this guy, but maybe it'll stop the next one.

One thing is certain, failure to change anything will result in continued mass shootings.

Seems that with everyone worried about Islamic terrorists and Latin American immigrants, the demographic killing the most Americans is white guys with assault rifles.
LOL.

It's bad enough when people look at an isolated incident (not saying this is an isolated incident, just making a point) rather than the big picture and try to use that incident as the basis for broad legislative action that has the potential to influence tens of millions of people, but in this case you are literally saying that it is worth infringing on the rights of tens of millions of law abiding citizens because maybe, in theory, there could be a future situation that may or may not be slightly affected by one particular change, a change that wouldn't have had the slightest impact on the incident we are all debating. All this on the basis that it's going to give you good "feels" that some action, regardless of how useless or effective it may be, is being taken. Good luck with that...
Infringing, yes. Eliminating, no.

Same as our right to free speech is infringed upon by not being allowed to yell "fire" in a crowded theater. Infringed upon as when one is not able to buy alcohol until age 21. Infringed upon as when one needs a license to operate a motor vehicle.

Infringed. Not eliminated.
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      02-16-2018, 04:41 PM   #310
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But at least Obama tried. Here is a partial list of executive orders that Obama signed after the Sandy Hook shooting:

1) Issuing a presidential memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS).
2) Addressing unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA), that may prevent states from making information available to NICS.
3) Improving incentives for states to share information with NICS.
Directing the attorney general to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.
4) Proposing a rule making to give law enforcement authorities the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.
5) Publishing a letter from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.
6) Starting a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.
7) Reviewing safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission).
8) Issuing a presidential memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.
9) Releasing a report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and making it widely available to law enforcement authorities.
10) Providing law enforcement authorities, first responders and school officials with proper training for armed attacks situations.
11) Issuing a presidential memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) to research gun violence.
12) Directing the attorney general to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenging the private sector to develop innovative technologies.
13) Clarify that the Affordable Care Act (ACA) does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.
14) Releasing a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities.
15) Providing incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.
16) Developing model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship, and institutions of higher education.
17) Releasing a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover.
18) Finalizing regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within insurance exchanges.
19) Committing to finalizing mental health parity regulations.
20) Starting a national dialogue on mental health led by Kathleen Sebelius, the secretary of health and human services, and Arne Duncan, the secretary of education.

You can argue all you want as to whether any of it was effective or useful. But at least he took some steps addressing gun safety, mental health and gun ownership. What has Trump done?
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      02-16-2018, 04:46 PM   #311
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Obama and the democrats didn’t pass any gun laws when they had congress with filibuster proof majority. Why not?
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      02-16-2018, 04:53 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by Zing View Post
However, since there is no one size fits all answer, as P1et laid out, if you awake to three intruders standing over you while you're in bed, there isn't anything that's going to unfuck that situation.
One thing we can agree on anyway.
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      02-16-2018, 04:54 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by EnVe46 View Post
/End Thread

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/pr...rkland-florida


This is not a gun issue, mental health issue. This IS why this happened. Someone dropped the ball on proper protocol. There it is folks. This shit has hit close to home as this was my high school I attended and knew some of the deceased including Aaron. Stop bashing each others political views and ranting about gun control and mental health. Neither would have prevented this from happening, our FBI should have. Having a family member in law enforcement, I can tell you they are as frustrated as we are.
I'm not defending the FBI in any way here as they fucked up bad. But, I'm also not sold on the fact the tip would've 100% prevented this from happening.
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      02-16-2018, 05:03 PM   #314
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Definitely need better checks for gun purchases.

If guns were illegal, as it is in most of the world, he may have gone and killed a few people with a knife? But he would have done no where the amount of damage he did with an assault rifle.

I went to high school in an inner city school in SF. We had metal detectors at every entrance and security on duty. That definitely kept the fights and gang violence down inside the school... but we still had a drive by shooting outside the school.
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      02-16-2018, 05:04 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by iamwingman View Post
Obama and the democrats didnít pass any gun laws when they had congress with filibuster proof majority. Why not?
They didn't have a "filibuster-proof" majority. Obama's gun control proposal needed 60 votes in the Senate to pass. They got 54. 4 Democratic senators voted against:

Sen. Max Baucus (MT)
Sen. Mark Begich (AK)
Sen. Heidi Heitkamp (ND)
Sen. Mark Pryor (AR)

3 of them (MT, AK and AR) faced re-election in deep-red states in 2014, so they voted "no" out of pure politics. So Obama still needed help from some Republican senators and obviously didn't get it. Even the most "acceptable" part of the proposal -- increasing background checks for gun ownership -- was shot down, despite across-the-board evidence that people overwhelmingly supported at least this part of the bill.
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      02-16-2018, 05:11 PM   #316
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I'm almost reluctant to get into this kind of debate because I usually get told that I don't understand what I'm talking about.......anyway here goes.

Just for background

I'm ex RAF and have served around the world carrying an SA80 assault rifle and 9mm pistol. I know how much fun a day at the range is and I was the top scoring rifleman on my unit. I used to love shooting rifles, pistols machine guns and shotguns and I regularly served with US Marine and USAF Captains and Majors.

Even with a military background I look at the US with a genuine sense of disbelief. A school getting shot up is not a normal, everyday occurrence in the rest of the western world. It just doesn't happen over here.

Carrying a gun is seen as normal in the US.

There were 571 homicides (murder, manslaughter and infanticide) in the year ending March 2016 in England and Wales.

A total of 38,000 gun deaths were recorded in the US in 2016....

I don't want to judge but I think the US has a major problem and from the reports we see (which I know are filtered by the media) you all seem to be in denial about it. The argument is that people kill people, guns are just a tool.........yeah I get that but the availability of guns makes it a lot easier to kill a lot of people if someone is having a bad day......

We had out last major school shooting in the UK 20 years ago.....a gunman murdered 16 children and their teacher. As a result we banned all semi automatics and handguns and it has never happened since. You can still buy a shotgun or bolt action rifle here but you need a licence and stringent police checks to qualify for one. Semi autos don't exist in the UK.

I don't think there is any reason for anyone to own a handgun or AR15 unless you are in the police or military. If you want to hunt then just buy a large calibre bolt action. If you can't get the job done with one round then you shouldn't be hunting anyway......

Just my opinion but when I hear the same old denial arguments in the US about arming teachers It's just very, very sad.
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      02-16-2018, 05:18 PM   #317
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^ This.

I cannot comprehend people who believe that the best way to curb shootings is simply to arm everyone, as sort of dťtente or mutually-assured destruction. People who commit gun-related crimes don't take potential lethal response into their thought equation ... because their desire to kill is motivated by an emotional desire to kill, rather than some calculated cost/benefit analysis. And even so, the thought process of a potential shooter isn't "Maybe I shouldn't shoot this person because they might shoot back", but rather "If I shoot first, that person won't be able to shoot me back".

Take gang-related killings. Every gang member knows that the rival gang has guns and will retaliate with their own guns. But that doesn't stop gang violence. No one has ever suggested that the best way to curb gun-related deaths in gang violence is simply to arm all of the gangs with guns.
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      02-16-2018, 05:19 PM   #318
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Let me play towards you gun reachers for a second... Take away our "assault rifles", bullshit name. Then we will have another shooting with pistols. Take pistols away, they create homemade bombs. Why is it so hard to see that taking a type of gun away doesn't solve the issue? It baffles me as everyone so far in this thread seems educated and has made some good points but we can't see one type of gun isn't the issue.

Ok, so we make it more difficult to get any gun. How do we make it more difficult? Psychiatric test? Ok, how do ensure the person administering the test insit biased? Then, if a person fails, is there an appeal process? Are there different levels of failing? Meaning you're ok to get one type of gun but not another? If you fail the first round is there a timeframe you can come back? If we get through all this, what prevents them from getting a black market gun?

I don't see this as just a gun issue or just a mental health issue. The days of living where "we shouldn't need to protect our schools," is over and that's quite clear. The reason these things keep happening is we have some sick people in the world who have seen this thing play out several times which feeds into their psyche and laid the foreground on how to do it. On top of that, our education system is so fawked it's no wonder kids are loosing their shit. Ever seen common core math?! My nephew is struggling cause of how he has to answer the questions even though he gets them write and shows how he got there, it's not presented common core way and he gets a poor grade. Like fawk that, I couldn't even understand it. Then we've got funding so bad it's despicable! Kid you not, city spent 8 million on changing the colors of street lamps in my parents community but their schools are rated 5 out of 10 or less. This is soooo far from one problem or another. We have a sin problem in this society. We can't talk about God cause we are so afraid of offending someone. The moment we started silencing religion and feeding this snowflake society, school violence has gone through the roof. I'm not saying everyone needs to be Christian or Jewish or whatever religion, but damn you'll get suspended for discussing your views. It's sickening. I feel bad for all those who think gun control or just mental health will fix this shit.
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      02-16-2018, 05:21 PM   #319
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I feel any non American, or homegrown sheltered American leftist for that matter, should have to experience one of our good ole, down-home home invasions or muggings before being commenting on how we don't "need" anything more than a single shot musket or butter knife.

Having lived in an especially progressive part of CA with ridiculous gun laws, where some of the worst people in the world (Oakland criminals) routinely kicked in the doors of defenceless elderly residents and beat them unconcious (and on one occasion shot one in the chest in front of his disabled wife) I'm going to very politely advise the #noguns FUDers to keep their naive opinions on how the world works to thenselves.

You enjoy being unarmed and defenseless in your countries and I'll be grabbing my loaded, hicap mag P226 if any gentle giants come calling at 2am or try to take my car at a traffic light.
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      02-16-2018, 05:34 PM   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnVe46 View Post
Let me play towards you gun reachers for a second... Take away our "assault rifles", bullshit name. Then we will have another shooting with pistols. Take pistols away, they create homemade bombs. Why is it so hard to see that taking a type of gun away doesn't solve the issue? It baffles me as everyone so far in this thread seems educated and has made some good points but we can't see one type of gun isn't the issue.

Ok, so we make it more difficult to get any gun. How do we make it more difficult? Psychiatric test? Ok, how do ensure the person administering the test insit biased? Then, if a person fails, is there an appeal process? Are there different levels of failing? Meaning you're ok to get one type of gun but not another? If you fail the first round is there a timeframe you can come back? If we get through all this, what prevents them from getting a black market gun?

I don't see this as just a gun issue or just a mental health issue. The days of living where "we shouldn't need to protect our schools," is over and that's quite clear. The reason these things keep happening is we have some sick people in the world who have seen this thing play out several times which feeds into their psyche and laid the foreground on how to do it. On top of that, our education system is so fawked it's no wonder kids are loosing their shit. Ever seen common core math?! My nephew is struggling cause of how he has to answer the questions even though he gets them write and shows how he got there, it's not presented common core way and he gets a poor grade. Like fawk that, I couldn't even understand it. Then we've got funding so bad it's despicable! Kid you not, city spent 8 million on changing the colors of street lamps in my parents community but their schools are rated 5 out of 10 or less. This is soooo far from one problem or another. We have a sin problem in this society. We can't talk about God cause we are so afraid of offending someone. The moment we started silencing religion and feeding this snowflake society, school violence has gone through the roof. I'm not saying everyone needs to be Christian or Jewish or whatever religion, but damn you'll get suspended for discussing your views. It's sickening. I feel bad for all those who think gun control or just mental health will fix this shit.
Not to threadjack, and I agree you make some good points that certainly helps with the discussion, but I couldn't help but notice the bolded language above on common core math.

I used to be against common core, then my kids went through it (and is still going through it). Took me about 30 minutes to understand it at first, but once I saw what the curriculum was trying to do and where it was headed, I'm actually somewhat a proponent of it.

Common core attempts to teach math by giving them a toolset on how to manipulate numbers in different ways. For example, take 17 + 24. Using basic algorithmic math, we would just simply add the 7 and 4, and carry the 10 over. Common core still goes through the basic algorithm, but also teaches other ways to think about it question. So here, another way of solving it is taking 3 from 24 to add to the 17, making 20. That leaves 21 to add to 20, making it an easier problem to solve.

Another practical example: calculating 15% tip. Basic algorithm teaches multiplying the tab by 0.15. Another way is simply to take 10% (which is just moving the decimal point), then divide it by 2 (getting 5%), and then adding them together (to get 15%). The basic algorithm cannot be done in the head. The "common core" method can.

Carry on.

/threadjack
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      02-16-2018, 05:47 PM   #321
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Originally Posted by schoy View Post
They didn't have a "filibuster-proof" majority. Obama's gun control proposal needed 60 votes in the Senate to pass. They got 54. 4 Democratic senators voted against:

Sen. Max Baucus (MT)
Sen. Mark Begich (AK)
Sen. Heidi Heitkamp (ND)
Sen. Mark Pryor (AR)

3 of them (MT, AK and AR) faced re-election in deep-red states in 2014, so they voted "no" out of pure politics. So Obama still needed help from some Republican senators and obviously didn't get it. Even the most "acceptable" part of the proposal -- increasing background checks for gun ownership -- was shot down, despite across-the-board evidence that people overwhelmingly supported at least this part of the bill.
Obama and democrats held 60 seats in the senate and a majority in the house, in 2009 to 2010. He proposed no gun legislation at that time.
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      02-16-2018, 06:02 PM   #322
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Originally Posted by iamwingman View Post
Obama and democrats held 60 seats in the senate and a majority in the house, in 2009 to 2010. He proposed no gun legislation at that time.
But he did in 2013 in response to Sandy Hook, when American citizens strongly demanded gun control legislation, especially since this was a mass shooting event involving children. The only major-headline mass shooting event prior to Sandy Hook during Obama's presidency, I believe, was the Aurora movie theater shooting in 2012.

Could he have done more in 2009/2010? Sure, but gun control wasn't a priority those years. But then, every president could have done more with every issue. Instead of focusing what he could have done, perhaps focus on what he did do. The fact is, he tried.

Tell me what Trump has done, because I guarantee you that the Democrats will likely support any gun control/mental health measure that he or the Republicans come up with. Trump and the Republicans have an even more favorable political climate to enact gun control/mental health legislation than Obama ever had.

EDIT: Or even an executive order. Or even more innocuous: a presidential memorandum. Could be as simple as saying "The White House acknowledges that the ability of those suffering from severe mental health issues to acquire guns is a problem in the United States that needs to be addressed. I hereby authorize [SOME AGENCY] to prioritize a study that examines how such persons can acquire guns, as well as different methods of addressing how best to restrict such persons from acquiring guns. That study should be provided no later than [DEADLINE]." But no, not even that.

Last edited by schoy; 02-16-2018 at 06:12 PM.
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      02-16-2018, 06:10 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by dmatre View Post
Infringing, yes. Eliminating, no.

Same as our right to free speech is infringed upon by not being allowed to yell "fire" in a crowded theater. Infringed upon as when one is not able to buy alcohol until age 21. Infringed upon as when one needs a license to operate a motor vehicle.

Infringed. Not eliminated.
Not arguing against infringement. As with any decision one has to weigh the pros and cons or do a cost benefit analysis to compare costs to benefits. My point is that the infringement you are suggesting will not be outweighed by potentially ineffective laws that wonít prevent these types of incidents and that basic logic tells you will not be effective. You propose something meaningful and logically sound and Iím all for infringement.
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      02-16-2018, 06:19 PM   #324
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Originally Posted by Genieman View Post
Not arguing against infringement. As with any decision one has to weigh the pros and cons or do a cost benefit analysis to compare costs to benefits. My point is that the infringement you are suggesting will not be outweighed by potentially ineffective laws that won’t prevent these types of incidents and that basic logic tells you will not be effective. You propose something meaningful and logically sound and I’m all for infringement.
But it's not "basic logic". We have reams and reams of evidence that gun control legislation in other countries have resulted in a massive reduction in mass shootings. That is a HUGE data point. Now you can argue whether the data could be replicated in the United States which has a more heterogeneous population socially, economically, racially, etc.. But that just means that "basic logic" doesn't necessarily conclude that gun control legislation wouldn't work.

EDIT: It's not logic that drives the resistance against gun control legislation. It's that many people don't want to give up their guns. And that they see that the cost of giving up their guns is greater than the potential deaths of a few dozen schoolchildren every couple of years. It's not just logic that's driving this. There's also a lot of emotion.

Last edited by schoy; 02-16-2018 at 06:24 PM.
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      02-16-2018, 06:38 PM   #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schoy View Post
But it's not "basic logic". We have reams and reams of evidence that gun control legislation in other countries have resulted in a massive reduction in mass shootings. That is a HUGE data point. Now you can argue whether the data could be replicated in the United States which has a more heterogeneous population socially, economically, racially, etc.. But that just means that "basic logic" doesn't necessarily conclude that gun control legislation wouldn't work.

EDIT: It's not logic that drives the resistance against gun control legislation. It's that many people don't want to give up their guns. And that they see that the cost of giving up their guns is greater than the potential deaths of a few dozen schoolchildren every couple of years. It's not just logic that's driving this. There's also a lot of emotion.
What gun control legislation would you propose that would have stopped Parkland?
Or Vegas?
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      02-16-2018, 07:18 PM   #326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schoy View Post
But it's not "basic logic". We have reams and reams of evidence that gun control legislation in other countries have resulted in a massive reduction in mass shootings. That is a HUGE data point. Now you can argue whether the data could be replicated in the United States which has a more heterogeneous population socially, economically, racially, etc.. But that just means that "basic logic" doesn't necessarily conclude that gun control legislation wouldn't work.

EDIT: It's not logic that drives the resistance against gun control legislation. It's that many people don't want to give up their guns. And that they see that the cost of giving up their guns is greater than the potential deaths of a few dozen schoolchildren every couple of years. It's not just logic that's driving this. There's also a lot of emotion.
Letís see, UK has no guns, there were three trucks driven into crowds with intention to harm people. Do you think those victimsí families are consoling themselves by telling themselves that ďat least it wasnít a gun?Ē If you reduce ďgun deathsĒ but that causes an increase in knife attacks or truck attacks or car bombs is that really your suggestion? Would you feel proud of your achievement in reducing that one statistic without reducing actual deaths?? Furthermore as I previously said, UK is an island smuggling stuff there is hard. Look at the amount of drugs that come into this country. Donít you think that if you made guns illegal for law abiding citizens that weapons would be smuggled in creating a defenseless population vulnerable to crime and intimidation from armed criminals?

Moreover, think of these statistics:
Since 1967 there hav been 1100 school shooting deaths. Thatís horrible and I wish there were 0 but that boils down to 22 per year. You never hear abt it because itís not sensationalized by the media like school shootings, but consider the followinn statistics from Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use
50k-2.5m defensive gun use cases per year. Letís assume the lowest number is accurate and letís even assume that not all 50k of incidents preventrd death maybe only prevented a robbery. Weigh the cost benefit now. At least 50k people being able to defend themselves annually vs 22 deaths a year from school shootings?

Last edited by Genieman; 02-16-2018 at 07:41 PM.
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      02-16-2018, 07:34 PM   #327
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I'm almost reluctant to get into this kind of debate because I usually get told that I don't understand what I'm talking about.......anyway here goes.

Just for background

I'm ex RAF and have served around the world carrying an SA80 assault rifle and 9mm pistol. I know how much fun a day at the range is and I was the top scoring rifleman on my unit. I used to love shooting rifles, pistols machine guns and shotguns and I regularly served with US Marine and USAF Captains and Majors.

Even with a military background I look at the US with a genuine sense of disbelief. A school getting shot up is not a normal, everyday occurrence in the rest of the western world. It just doesn't happen over here.

Carrying a gun is seen as normal in the US.

There were 571 homicides (murder, manslaughter and infanticide) in the year ending March 2016 in England and Wales.

A total of 38,000 gun deaths were recorded in the US in 2016....

I don't want to judge but I think the US has a major problem and from the reports we see (which I know are filtered by the media) you all seem to be in denial about it. The argument is that people kill people, guns are just a tool.........yeah I get that but the availability of guns makes it a lot easier to kill a lot of people if someone is having a bad day......

We had out last major school shooting in the UK 20 years ago.....a gunman murdered 16 children and their teacher. As a result we banned all semi automatics and handguns and it has never happened since. You can still buy a shotgun or bolt action rifle here but you need a licence and stringent police checks to qualify for one. Semi autos don't exist in the UK.

I don't think there is any reason for anyone to own a handgun or AR15 unless you are in the police or military. If you want to hunt then just buy a large calibre bolt action. If you can't get the job done with one round then you shouldn't be hunting anyway......

Just my opinion but when I hear the same old denial arguments in the US about arming teachers It's just very, very sad.
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      02-16-2018, 08:09 PM   #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Carrots View Post
I feel any non American, or homegrown sheltered American leftist for that matter, should have to experience one of our good ole, down-home home invasions or muggings before being commenting on how we don't "need" anything more than a single shot musket or butter knife.

Having lived in an especially progressive part of CA with ridiculous gun laws, where some of the worst people in the world (Oakland criminals) routinely kicked in the doors of defenceless elderly residents and beat them unconcious (and on one occasion shot one in the chest in front of his disabled wife) I'm going to very politely advise the #noguns FUDers to keep their naive opinions on how the world works to thenselves.

You enjoy being unarmed and defenseless in your countries and I'll be grabbing my loaded, hicap mag P226 if any gentle giants come calling at 2am or try to take my car at a traffic light.
Because muggings and home invasions only happen in America Christ I'm surprised I'm even here to type this because going by the logic some of you lot are using, every Australian, Brit, etc should be dead because we don't have guns (fun fact, we do!!).

Now I'll wait for the same old cliche responses of how I'm not American, how our government took our guns away (again - they didn't), how terrorists will use trucks, etc, etc, etc, etc.

Edit - just to educate you, gun crimes in Australia HAVE NOT increased since the buy back and we have had no mass shootings since. It will take a generation for change to be effected, so don't think any sort of ban or regulation will stop the problem overnight. So do something and make a change for future generations or do nothing just so you can have your right to bear arms, but know that the problem will continue.

Last edited by 2bad4u; 02-16-2018 at 08:15 PM.
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minn194027.50

      02-16-2018, 09:56 PM   #329
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You really don't get it, you don't have a criminal class like we do here

It's ok, even experiencing it first hand doesn't always break the conditioning. My neighbors kept their Bernie sign up even after their elderly dad was pistol whipped into the ICU and their mom was beaten on the ground in a home invasion that happened on a quiet Sunday afternoon.

We had 5 brutal invasions on my street alone in the time we lived there, and the only one on my street that had a happy ending was the vet son of an older woman who was in the back room when some Good Boys smashed their way into what they thought was an old woman home alone, and he came out shooting.

When we left, after one of those sweet innocent boys the left loves to defend attacked my wife, our neighbors were posting on Nextdoor asking why the HOA couldn't put up cameras to stop the crime. They seriously believed that would work, the level of progressive Californian delusion knows no bounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bad4u View Post
Because muggings and home invasions only happen in America Christ I'm surprised I'm even here to type this because going by the logic some of you lot are using, every Australian, Brit, etc should be dead because we don't have guns (fun fact, we do!!).

Now I'll wait for the same old cliche responses of how I'm not American, how our government took our guns away (again - they didn't), how terrorists will use trucks, etc, etc, etc, etc.

Edit - just to educate you, gun crimes in Australia HAVE NOT increased since the buy back and we have had no mass shootings since. It will take a generation for change to be effected, so don't think any sort of ban or regulation will stop the problem overnight. So do something and make a change for future generations or do nothing just so you can have your right to bear arms, but know that the problem will continue.
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FCobra942083.50

      02-17-2018, 03:47 AM   #330
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It must be said that a number of people posting on the forum exhibit mental health issues, things such as multiple accounts, user names, pretending to be someone else, trolling, being unable to carry out a rational discussion, being that anal in expecting others to use precise technical terminology.

I really hope those that show examples of the above do not have access to weapons.

Some of the other points about banning the sale of weapons, fail to take in to account the sheer numbers of weapons (both legal and illegal) in circulation within the US.

Imagine what it must do to the mental health of young people in schools etc, where teachers are armed and schools practice 'shooter on campus' type alerts.

Even just on this thread they are very polarised views and that's a huge part of the problem.

Having a president and people in power with these polarised views also prevents rational debate.

The fact that some of those owning guns have such a polarised view does point towards mental health issues with some individuals.
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