E90Post
 


Bimmer Retrofit
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Off-Topic Discussions Board > Another day. Another gun. Another school.



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-21-2018, 06:35 PM   #441
wdb
dances with roads
wdb's Avatar
United_States
1089
Rep
1,852
Posts

Drives: '07 Z4MC, '07 Z4C, '07 E93
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: the perimeter

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
What has Trump done? Let’s see. Bump stocks came up today.
Bump stocks, like the ones that were used to kill/injure almost 600 (SIX HUNDRED) people in Vegas. Not used by the FL school shooter; all he had was an AR-style rifle with a mondo magazine.

Typical Trump, reacting to today's news with yesterday's answers.
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2018, 06:57 PM   #442
1MOREMOD
2018 track days - 0 ridge 1:52:24 pacific 1:33:30
1MOREMOD's Avatar
United_States
6117
Rep
19,677
Posts

Drives: Race car->
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: check your mirrors

iTrader: (5)

What's a mondo mag? D60?
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2018, 07:42 PM   #443
IK6SPEED
Major General
IK6SPEED's Avatar
United_States
2186
Rep
6,481
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 / AH3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Sacramento, CA

iTrader: (18)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
Bump stocks, like the ones that were used to kill/injure almost 600 (SIX HUNDRED) people in Vegas. Not used by the FL school shooter; all he had was an AR-style rifle with a mondo magazine.

Typical Trump, reacting to today's news with yesterday's answers.
I’ve noted in multiple posts that bump stocks were NOT used in Florida.

But I see you did not answer the question (only providing an answer to a question not asked).

Which of those Obama regulations that Trump “undid” caused the Parkland shooting to happen?
__________________
Stable: F80 / AH3
Past: F80 ZCP / F22 M235i / E89 35is
Appreciate 1
FCobra942092.50

      02-21-2018, 09:47 PM   #444
dmatre
Lieutenant
United_States
102
Rep
480
Posts

Drives: 2011 328i Sedan
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Carolinas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
Bump stocks, like the ones that were used to kill/injure almost 600 (SIX HUNDRED) people in Vegas. Not used by the FL school shooter; all he had was an AR-style rifle with a mondo magazine.

Typical Trump, reacting to today's news with yesterday's answers.
So, is there any reason why they shouldn't be banned due to their use in Vegas? Or are we now only allowed to act on the LATEST massacre?
Appreciate 1
SakhirM47451.50

      02-21-2018, 09:49 PM   #445
wdb
dances with roads
wdb's Avatar
United_States
1089
Rep
1,852
Posts

Drives: '07 Z4MC, '07 Z4C, '07 E93
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: the perimeter

iTrader: (4)

No.
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2018, 09:51 PM   #446
wdb
dances with roads
wdb's Avatar
United_States
1089
Rep
1,852
Posts

Drives: '07 Z4MC, '07 Z4C, '07 E93
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: the perimeter

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
I’ve noted in multiple posts that bump stocks were NOT used in Florida.

But I see you did not answer the question (only providing an answer to a question not asked).

Which of those Obama regulations that Trump “undid” caused the Parkland shooting to happen?
That's not the question you asked. But please don't let me get in the way of your obfuscation.
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2018, 09:54 PM   #447
IK6SPEED
Major General
IK6SPEED's Avatar
United_States
2186
Rep
6,481
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 / AH3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Sacramento, CA

iTrader: (18)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
That's not the question you asked. But please don't let me get in the way of your obfuscation.
At least I answer the questions asked towards me, unlike you.

So who’s REALLY obfuscating?
__________________
Stable: F80 / AH3
Past: F80 ZCP / F22 M235i / E89 35is
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2018, 01:22 AM   #448
bimmer456
Brigadier General
1018
Rep
3,220
Posts

Drives: 340i
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Pasadena, CA

iTrader: (0)

Video on bump stocks

Appreciate 0
      02-22-2018, 08:15 AM   #449
S111SYA
Private
England
53
Rep
96
Posts

Drives: F30 320dM Sport Shadow Edition
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Yorkshire

iTrader: (0)

Fuck me there are some thick yanks on here.

Make it more difficult to get guns, people don't use guns to kill kids. It really is that simple.

Almost every other method is entirely less effective and takes more training or effort to pull off. Typically these things aren't hugely pre-planned pre-medititated attacks, its just some crazy arse kids who have bad days and easy access to guns that decide to go on a killing spree.

Mentally ill or not, if you take away the thing that makes it easy to kill people then these kinds of these things reduce. Dramatically.

But if Americans think them having easy access to guns is more important than the lives of children then the worlds fucked anyway.
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2018, 10:38 AM   #450
FCobra94
Brigadier General
FCobra94's Avatar
2093
Rep
4,279
Posts

Drives: '07 E90 335i
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: MD

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by S111SYA View Post
But if Americans think them having easy access to guns is more important than the lives of children then the worlds fucked anyway.
That's all people seem to respond back with; "make them harder to get." What *specifically* are you proposing?

A number of states already have waiting periods. Is ~7 days an acceptable amount of time for law abiding citizens to wait before receiving a firearm? Should it be be 30? How about 3 months? A year? It already takes that long to receive the seal of approval to legally own a threaded piece of aluminum tubing with a hole through both ends, so might as well make that the standard for all firearms too, right?

What about mental health evaluations? Who carries those out? How long will it take to even get that appointment? Should one be conducted before each purchase, or should it be retroactive? Who pays for it in the first place?

How about police stations store everyones guns for safe keeping and you can only check them out on the weekend to go to the range and back? Even criminals would have to abide by that, right? Would that make you feel safer?

Lots of questions, lots of options, zero answers...peeps who desire no interest in firearms all want change but offer no suggestions on how to fix it; other than ban all the "evil" looking variants and make it nearly impossible to own all but a muzzle loaded blunderbuss. All for the 0.00000001% of the population that choose to use them in a destructive manner.
__________________
'07 E90 335i - Automagic - Non-sport
MHD E60|Alpina Flash|Stg 2 LPFP|VRSF 7"FMIC-DP-CP|TIAL BOV|cp-e DCI
Bilstein B6|Dinan Camber Plates|E93 M3 FSB-LCA-Guide Rods|Manzo Toe Arms|HPS 5.0
Sonic Tuning ST100 - 18x8.5 ET35 - Conti DWS 245/40/18 - 10/20 F/R spacers
Appreciate 1
SakhirM47451.50

      02-22-2018, 10:47 AM   #451
Mr Carrots
Major
726
Rep
1,049
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: South

iTrader: (0)

You're making the mistake of thinking someone who lives in a country that jails people for hurting feelings on facebook has any concept of how important a bill of rights is

Not really worth arguing about appeals to feels TBH.
Appreciate 1
FCobra942092.50

      02-22-2018, 10:57 AM   #452
GuidoK
#buildnotbought
GuidoK's Avatar
986
Rep
1,951
Posts

Drives: Z4 3.0i ESS TS2+
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tinkering in the garage

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FCobra94 View Post
That's all people seem to respond back with; "make them harder to get." What *specifically* are you proposing?
If you want to know how we go about those things in europe, I refer to my previous post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
I think the first thing you need to establish is that having a gun requires a permit that has to be renewed every so often and that the gun has to be registred to that permit.
That way you can regulate it if someone is showing behaviour that is not allowed and prevent them to have guns to prevent future disasters.
For instance if someone has been hospitalized because of a suicide attempt or so, that would be the time to retract that permit. (where I live a mental health check has to be done to grant a permit and a few years ago some police commisioner didnt do his job right and granted a permit to a person that had suicidal tendencies (medical record) and that resulted in a public shooting killing 6 people, wounding 17 and then killing himself).

Another obvious one is not allowing guns to be stored loaded and having guns and ammo stored seperately in their own vault.

Third, not allowing to bear loaded arms in public. In europe we go much further, there you can only transport your (unloaded) gun to the huntingground or shooting range/gunclub or maybe a gunsmith. Wanting to transport it anywhere else reqruires a seperate permit per time you transport it.
That way you can regulate small time trafficing and regulate where a gun is legally at within society etc That someone has a permit for a gun is fine, but would you want to have that person carrying that gun near a school, playground, toy store and such? (to give an idea what you can accomplish with such an implementation)

Quote:
What about mental health evaluations? Who carries those out? How long will it take to even get that appointment? Should one be conducted before each purchase, or should it be retroactive? Who pays for it in the first place?
In europe thats the job of the police commissioner, he is the one that issues the permits. There is no appointment, but there is a background check on your medical history, I think including what prescription drugs you take.
And that is done periodically as permits are issued periodically

Quote:
How about police stations store everyones guns for safe keeping and you can only check them out on the weekend to go to the range and back? Even criminals would have to abide by that, right? Would that make you feel safer?
Do you carry a gun to feel safer or do you want a society that is actually safer (400%-800% safer according to the various statistics).
In europe its in the first place impossible to get a gun permit for defensive purposes.
__________________
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | Powerflex/strongflex PU bushings | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs performance clutch
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2018, 11:05 AM   #453
are0lies
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
4042
Rep
1,834
Posts

Drives: 2011 M3 E93
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Riverside

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FCobra94 View Post
All for the 0.00000001% of the population that choose to use them in a destructive manner.
Actually, it's for the percentile that are affected by this destructive manner. Unfortunately some no longer have a voice.
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2018, 11:15 AM   #454
FCobra94
Brigadier General
FCobra94's Avatar
2093
Rep
4,279
Posts

Drives: '07 E90 335i
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: MD

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
Another obvious one is not allowing guns to be stored loaded and having guns and ammo stored seperately in their own vault.

Third, not allowing to bear loaded arms in public. In europe we go much further, there you can only transport your (unloaded) gun to the huntingground or shooting range/gunclub or maybe a gunsmith. Wanting to transport it anywhere else reqruires a seperate permit per time you transport it.
That way you can regulate small time trafficing and regulate where a gun is legally at within society etc That someone has a permit for a gun is fine, but would you want to have that person carrying that gun near a school, playground, toy store and such? (to give an idea what you can accomplish with such an implementation)
lol @ "obvious" laws. Those are all perfect examples of making it a complete pain in the d!k for anyone but a criminal to have to jump through an insurmountable amount of hoops to offer very little safety to anyone at all.

It's near impossible to get a permit to conceal carry in my state, so for that reason I cannot do so; your argument about "feeling safer" falls flat there. To tell me it would also be illegal to have a reasonably accessible means of protecting myself from an intruder entering my home and wanting to cause harm though is laughable, at best.

As for the mental health screenings, there's obviously something to be said there. I doubt any one country does it perfectly, but even still, just because one part of the world sees "success" with their methods, doesn't mean applying those same methods here will produce equal results.
__________________
'07 E90 335i - Automagic - Non-sport
MHD E60|Alpina Flash|Stg 2 LPFP|VRSF 7"FMIC-DP-CP|TIAL BOV|cp-e DCI
Bilstein B6|Dinan Camber Plates|E93 M3 FSB-LCA-Guide Rods|Manzo Toe Arms|HPS 5.0
Sonic Tuning ST100 - 18x8.5 ET35 - Conti DWS 245/40/18 - 10/20 F/R spacers
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2018, 11:32 AM   #455
UncleWede
Long Time Admirer, First Time Owner
UncleWede's Avatar
United_States
5253
Rep
5,860
Posts

Drives: E90 325i Arctic
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Oxnard, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by S111SYA View Post
Fuck me there are some thick yanks on here.

Make it more difficult to get guns, people don't use guns to kill kids. It really is that simple.

Almost every other method is entirely less effective and takes more training or effort to pull off. Typically these things aren't hugely pre-planned pre-medititated attacks, its just some crazy arse kids who have bad days and easy access to guns that decide to go on a killing spree.

Mentally ill or not, if you take away the thing that makes it easy to kill people then these kinds of these things reduce. Dramatically.

But if Americans think them having easy access to guns is more important than the lives of children then the worlds fucked anyway.
How long ago did this kid get investigated for making threats? How much earlier than that did he purchase said "assault weapon"?
Appreciate 1
FCobra942092.50

      02-22-2018, 12:18 PM   #456
S111SYA
Private
England
53
Rep
96
Posts

Drives: F30 320dM Sport Shadow Edition
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Yorkshire

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Carrots View Post
You're making the mistake of thinking someone who lives in a country that jails people for hurting feelings on facebook has any concept of how important a bill of rights is

Not really worth arguing about appeals to feels TBH.
What I read was "he is right and i don't know how to respond because I'm in the wrong so ill change topic completely"

Buffoon
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2018, 12:26 PM   #457
S111SYA
Private
England
53
Rep
96
Posts

Drives: F30 320dM Sport Shadow Edition
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Yorkshire

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
How long ago did this kid get investigated for making threats? How much earlier than that did he purchase said "assault weapon"?
It doesn't really matter, the point is that this kid could get access to a gun he had no good reason for owning because it was so easy.

Make it more difficult to get, background checks, increased waiting times, legitimate reason required for wanting to own one and this kid doesn't shoot up a school.

If it takes him 6 months to get a gun, assuming he has a good reason, all the hate and fire that made him do it in the first place dissipates and likely a) he doesn't bother or b) his hate becomes stronger which gives more people more chance to spot the sign's of mental illness.

The simple fact is that he could do it because it was oh so easy for him to get hold of a gun.

But it's alright as long as Jonny Redneck can have his new gun in 12 hours and use it in his dick measuring contest with his mates it doesn't matter about the children Morons
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2018, 12:28 PM   #458
1MOREMOD
2018 track days - 0 ridge 1:52:24 pacific 1:33:30
1MOREMOD's Avatar
United_States
6117
Rep
19,677
Posts

Drives: Race car->
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: check your mirrors

iTrader: (5)

Yes because he was worried about following laws. Why would he care how he got it if murder isn't beyond him
Appreciate 1
FCobra942092.50

      02-22-2018, 01:18 PM   #459
FCobra94
Brigadier General
FCobra94's Avatar
2093
Rep
4,279
Posts

Drives: '07 E90 335i
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: MD

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by S111SYA View Post
But it's alright as long as Jonny Redneck can have his new gun in 12 hours and use it in his dick measuring contest with his mates it doesn't matter about the children Morons
If you bothered to do any research whatsoever, you would have known that this particular dirtbag already owned the firearm for at least a year.

Yes, increasing the minimum age of ownership would have obviously helped in this situation, but the amount of red flags that were ignored by authorities after he took posession has more to do with preventing this incident than "ease of acquirement" does.
__________________
'07 E90 335i - Automagic - Non-sport
MHD E60|Alpina Flash|Stg 2 LPFP|VRSF 7"FMIC-DP-CP|TIAL BOV|cp-e DCI
Bilstein B6|Dinan Camber Plates|E93 M3 FSB-LCA-Guide Rods|Manzo Toe Arms|HPS 5.0
Sonic Tuning ST100 - 18x8.5 ET35 - Conti DWS 245/40/18 - 10/20 F/R spacers
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2018, 01:20 PM   #460
GuidoK
#buildnotbought
GuidoK's Avatar
986
Rep
1,951
Posts

Drives: Z4 3.0i ESS TS2+
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tinkering in the garage

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FCobra94 View Post
lol @ "obvious" laws. Those are all perfect examples of making it a complete pain in the d!k for anyone but a criminal to have to jump through an insurmountable amount of hoops to offer very little safety to anyone at all.
They may be 'obvious' but there's no denying that they work.
Western europe is 400%-800% safer than the US when it comes to gun related crimes or casualties.
The US scores no better than many third world countries.

Quote:
It's near impossible to get a permit to conceal carry in my state, so for that reason I cannot do so; your argument about "feeling safer" falls flat there.
Its not about conceal carry. Its about carry in general.
In europe you're not allowed to carry a gun in public unless its between your house and the gunclub or a gunsmith, or when you have a special permit to carry it on another route (and yes, for each time you do that you need to get a new permit).
However you look at it, both gun related crimes and gun related accidents are way way lower in europe.
Also to get a permit, it's mandatory that you have an active membership to a gun club (unless its a permit to hunt or a permit for reinactment games).
And the atmosphere on those gunclubs is pretty much that its important to live by the rules, to be a model citizen. Maybe because the members feel special (not many people have a gun permit) and think of them as having a model citizen role. That affects other members and acts as a educational part.
Virtually every country that enforces a system like this has no real problems with the frequent mass shootings you have where normal citizens go berserk and start killing with their own guns they legally own.
No western european country has a track record that bad that it even comes close to the US. The shootings over here are usually terrorist attacks with meticulously planned scenario's. No gun law is going to protect you from that, but then again, you wont be able to protect yourself from a terrorist attack if you carry a gun. For that you need a good working intelligence agency.
__________________
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | Powerflex/strongflex PU bushings | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs performance clutch
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2018, 01:41 PM   #461
Z K
Brigadier General
Z K's Avatar
United_States
1150
Rep
4,482
Posts

Drives: E90 M3, B8.5 A4
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
They may be 'obvious' but there's no denying that they work.
Western europe is 400%-800% safer than the US when it comes to gun related crimes or casualties.
The US scores no better than many third world countries.


Its not about conceal carry. Its about carry in general.
In europe you're not allowed to carry a gun in public unless its between your house and the gunclub or a gunsmith, or when you have a special permit to carry it on another route (and yes, for each time you do that you need to get a new permit).
However you look at it, both gun related crimes and gun related accidents are way way lower in europe.
Also to get a permit, it's mandatory that you have an active membership to a gun club (unless its a permit to hunt or a permit for reinactment games).
And the atmosphere on those gunclubs is pretty much that its important to live by the rules, to be a model citizen. Maybe because the members feel special (not many people have a gun permit) and think of them as having a model citizen role. That affects other members and acts as a educational part.
Virtually every country that enforces a system like this has no real problems with the frequent mass shootings you have where normal citizens go berserk and start killing with their own guns they legally own.
No western european country has a track record that bad that it even comes close to the US. The shootings over here are usually terrorist attacks with meticulously planned scenario's. No gun law is going to protect you from that, but then again, you wont be able to protect yourself from a terrorist attack if you carry a gun. For that you need a good working intelligence agency.
The problem is, guns are already in the hands of a lot of people. Taking them away will be extremely hard not to mention a right in the constitution of the USA.

I'm all for additional screening and gun restrictions but I don't think guns can be removed from people's hands. I've shot guns most of my life but I do think gun violence is nuts and something needs to be done.
__________________
Auto Detailing Enthusiast!
Appreciate 1
Brigand6607.50

      02-22-2018, 01:57 PM   #462
GuidoK
#buildnotbought
GuidoK's Avatar
986
Rep
1,951
Posts

Drives: Z4 3.0i ESS TS2+
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tinkering in the garage

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
The problem is, guns are already in the hands of a lot of people. Taking them away will be extremely hard not to mention a right in the constitution of the USA.
You dont have to take them away, you just have to limit their use.
True its a bit of a pandora's box but that mainly means it'll be a lot of efford.
But the main thing is to get every gun registred under a renewable permit. Some states dont even have that and without that law enforcement has virtually no tool to control it even if they wanted it too.
Once they're under permit, you can sharpen the rules under the permit. If someone doesn't abide to the rules, you can take away the permit and thus the gun. That way you'll be picking up individuals and not necessarily disowning guns at masses of people.
But the 'right' to have a gun might be a legal problem. I dont know how far that right extends. For example in our weaponslaw, the first article says "It is forbidden to carry a weapon on the public road or at any place accessible to the public."
So if you want to go anywhere with a gun its automatically under permit.
That does not necessarily rule out that owning a gun is illegal, this is not a law that bans guns. Of course there are also articles that restrict the owning of guns, type of guns and how they should be stored etc etc.
If you make it very hard to own a gun or limit their use, people gradually start owning less and less guns. The die hards who still want that, can. Albeit with more hassle. Over here we also have total gun nuts with lots of guns. But those guys are willing to put up with all the hassle and the costs not to mention.
__________________
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | Powerflex/strongflex PU bushings | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs performance clutch
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:46 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST