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      02-22-2018, 03:01 PM   #463
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Will said taken guns from the bad men be available to us good guys for dirt cheap?
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      02-22-2018, 03:10 PM   #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
The problem is, guns are already in the hands of a lot of people. Taking them away will be extremely hard not to mention a right in the constitution of the USA.

I'm all for additional screening and gun restrictions but I don't think guns can be removed from people's hands. I've shot guns most of my life but I do think gun violence is nuts and something needs to be done.
You have to start somewhere right? If you take the Constitution word for word then we should be able to have tanks, bazookas and flame throwers. Why can't we have those? It becomes a point of where is the line drawn? Oh, yeah, it's at high caliber, high magazine guns.

I still have a hard time seeing why AR rifles are necessary....yeah, the whole argument that a 9mm can do the same damage. Yeah, a .22 can kill too. So, if you wanted to be a mass murderer and you had a choice what would you pick? It's been obvious and I don't see why it is so hard for people to figure out.
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      02-22-2018, 03:17 PM   #465
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Because some idiots choose to abuse a right doesn't exempt everyone else from having that right. What's so hard for you to figure out? Some people can drink responsibly some can't. Some can own cars, or hammers or a set of golf clubs. We don't need to ban everything you are afraid of and don't understand.
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      02-22-2018, 03:17 PM   #466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgoens View Post
You have to start somewhere right? If you take the Constitution word for word then we should be able to have tanks, bazookas and flame throwers. Why can't we have those? It becomes a point of where is the line drawn? Oh, yeah, it's at high caliber, high magazine guns.

I still have a hard time seeing why AR rifles are necessary....yeah, the whole argument that a 9mm can do the same damage. Yeah, a .22 can kill too. So, if you wanted to be a mass murderer and you had a choice what would you pick? It's been obvious and I don't see why it is so hard for people to figure out.
As I have said several times in this thread, you CAN own tanks, bazookas and flamethrowers, machine guns, etc and there are many of them in private hands. I have also outlined legitimate uses for AR-platform rifles. I don't expect you guys to be experts or anything but know your enemy, you know?
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      02-22-2018, 03:28 PM   #467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PINeely View Post
As I have said several times in this thread, you CAN own tanks, bazookas and flamethrowers, machine guns, etc and there are many of them in private hands. I have also outlined legitimate uses for AR-platform rifles. I don't expect you guys to be experts or anything but know your enemy, you know?
Oh yeah, your right. A tank would be a lot of cash, but a flamethrower. Wonder why some crazy hasn't picked one up yet--would add a lot of drama to the whole being a mass murderer thing.


http://www.guns.com/2015/08/25/want-to-buy-a-tank/


https://throwflame.com/flamethrowers/
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      02-22-2018, 03:28 PM   #468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
If you make it very hard to own a gun or limit their use, people gradually start owning less and less guns. The die hards who still want that, can. Albeit with more hassle. Over here we also have total gun nuts with lots of guns. But those guys are willing to put up with all the hassle and the costs not to mention.
Yeah... America is very backwards in many regards - I'll give you that. It is really like the wild west here. People carry guns for "protection", speeding is only speeding if you get caught by a police officer - no speed cameras and many other American only things. They don't like hassle for anything. People want supersized everything, easy to access all u can eat buffets and fast food - Fast, easy and cheap like guns.

I do agree there should be more restrictions on gun ownership. Mental evaluation is definitely one of those. I also feel like on-going evaluation should be mandatory as well.
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      02-22-2018, 03:31 PM   #469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgoens View Post
Oh yeah, your right. A tank would be a lot of cash, but a flamethrower. Wonder why some crazy hasn't picked one up yet--would add a lot of drama to the whole being a mass murderer thing.


http://www.guns.com/2015/08/25/want-to-buy-a-tank/


https://throwflame.com/flamethrowers/
No idea but I'm hoping it doesn't happen. If it does Elon Musk is going to have to answer some difficult questions with that little creme brulee torch of his.
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      02-22-2018, 04:08 PM   #470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
Yeah... America is very backwards in many regards - I'll give you that. It is really like the wild west here. People carry guns for "protection", speeding is only speeding if you get caught by a police officer - no speed cameras and many other American only things. They don't like hassle for anything. People want supersized everything, easy to access all u can eat buffets and fast food - Fast, easy and cheap like guns.

I do agree there should be more restrictions on gun ownership. Mental evaluation is definitely one of those. I also feel like on-going evaluation should be mandatory as well.
Sounds like you would be happier in Europe, none of those countries have a pesky constitution like ours to guarantee those annoyingly inconvenient inalienable rights.

I moved to the US partly because it's the last place on earth that enshrines a Bill of Rights, why not do the same thing and relocate to a place where the state can regulate your life a little more?
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      02-22-2018, 05:42 PM   #471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgoens View Post
You have to start somewhere right? If you take the Constitution word for word then we should be able to have tanks, bazookas and flame throwers. Why can't we have those? It becomes a point of where is the line drawn? Oh, yeah, it's at high caliber, high magazine guns.
Good thing a standard AR doesn't shoot high caliber rounds.
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      02-22-2018, 05:48 PM   #472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Carrots View Post
Sounds like you would be happier in Europe, none of those countries have a pesky constitution like ours to guarantee those annoyingly inconvenient inalienable rights.

I moved to the US partly because it's the last place on earth that enshrines a Bill of Rights, why not do the same thing and relocate to a place where the state can regulate your life a little more?
Indeed. This is of course because America is a very young (although I'm sure those with a red skin who would disagree) country and therefore doesn't have the history of many other countries.

Contrast with, say Greece, and you're counting in thousands of years of history to mould a constitution.

The other significant difference between the US and Europe is that Europeans don't suffer the same paranoia our American cousins do.
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      02-22-2018, 05:50 PM   #473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fravel View Post
Good thing a standard AR doesn't shoot high caliber rounds.
Ok. Not high caliber. And what is your point in regards to the topics being discussed here? So, I don't know the specifics for firearms--doesn't take away from the relevant debate.
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      02-22-2018, 06:27 PM   #474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fravel View Post
Good thing a standard AR doesn't shoot high caliber rounds.
I bet a few parents are relieved it was not a high Caliber round that killed their son or daughter.
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      02-22-2018, 07:05 PM   #475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgoens View Post
Ok. Not high caliber. And what is your point in regards to the topics being discussed here? So, I don't know the specifics for firearms--doesn't take away from the relevant debate.
It takes everything away from the relevant debate. If you can't accurately articulate valid reasons for the positions you hold, then your position doesn't mean anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigand View Post
I bet a few parents are relieved it was not a high Caliber round that killed their son or daughter.
I don't see any parents here making nonsense arguments based on arbitrary standards that don't even apply to the topic.
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      02-22-2018, 07:12 PM   #476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fravel View Post
It takes everything away from the relevant debate. If you can't accurately articulate valid reasons for the positions you hold, then your position doesn't mean anything.



I don't see any parents here making nonsense arguments based on arbitrary standards that don't even apply to the topic.
I said quite earlier in the thread about mental health issues and the likes, just how many critical technical points of issue are raised by some members against those who are not necessarily up on technical terminology.

This can be quite a clear indication of mental health issues, it is often seen where an individual will often insist others use the correct terms.

It's also amazing how little some of those types care about the loss of young life.

Again another indication of mental health issues.
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      02-22-2018, 07:15 PM   #477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgoens View Post
I still have a hard time seeing why AR rifles are necessary....yeah, the whole argument that a 9mm can do the same damage. Yeah, a .22 can kill too. So, if you wanted to be a mass murderer and you had a choice what would you pick? It's been obvious and I don't see why it is so hard for people to figure out.
What if we could magically transform AR rifles to ONLY shoot 9mm bullets, or even .22 bullets instead, but we just called those models something less offensive...like "Woodsman Plinkers." Would those examples be deemed "unnecessary rifles" in your opinion as well?
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      02-22-2018, 07:28 PM   #478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigand View Post
I said quite earlier in the thread about mental health issues and the likes, just how many critical technical points of issue are raised by some members against those who are not necessarily up on technical terminology.

This can be quite a clear indication of mental health issues, it is often seen where an individual will often insist others use the correct terms.

It's also amazing how little some of those types care about the loss of young life.

Again another indication of mental health issues.
There's a difference between not using correct technical terminology and using terminology which is flat out wrong. An AR is not a high-caliber weapon in any sense of the phrase. Calling it such is simply a fear tactic which is intended to manipulate people who don't know any better, or it's ignorance spouted by someone who has been duped.

In the second case, informing someone of their error gives them them information which may reform their position, or it will cause them to rephrase in a manner that supports their intended argument.

For the record, not agreeing with you on the solution does not equate to not caring about the loss of young lives - good try though.
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      02-22-2018, 07:58 PM   #479
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You guys in Europe have more of a chance of getting killed by a Muslim running you over in a truck, than my kids have a chance of getting shot at school.
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      02-22-2018, 08:03 PM   #480
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Originally Posted by 3gunshooter View Post
You guys in Europe have more of a chance of getting killed by a Muslim running you over in a truck, than my kids have a chance of getting shot at school.
And where do you get those 'facts' from?
Mate, that's laughable
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      02-22-2018, 08:15 PM   #481
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And where do you get those 'facts' from?
Mate, that's laughable
It was meant to be. I doesn't happen that much, but the media here uses it to stir the political pot.
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      02-22-2018, 08:20 PM   #482
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Also I dont see how it is a valid argument.
Because terrorist attacks happen in europe, a school shooting suddenly isnt bad anymore?
They are both bad. But unrelated. Its not that terrorist attacks happen in europe because we have strickt gun laws.
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      02-22-2018, 08:22 PM   #483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3gunshooter View Post
It was meant to be. I doesn't happen that much, but the media here uses it to stir the political pot.
Sadly that's so true.
I watched a few bits of 'news' on fox, it's a joke.

Edit
It's more like a talk show with opinions rather than actual news, I'm sure the other side of the political spectrum is the same in the US, no wonder each 'side' politically is so divided with such one sided viewpoints being bombarded at you 24/7

Last edited by Flyingscotsman; 02-22-2018 at 08:28 PM.
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      02-22-2018, 08:24 PM   #484
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Originally Posted by FCobra94 View Post
What if we could magically transform AR rifles to ONLY shoot 9mm bullets, or even .22 bullets instead, but we just called those models something less offensive...like "Woodsman Plinkers." Would those examples be deemed "unnecessary rifles" in your opinion as well?
A great majority of AR’s already do shoot 22 caliber bullets. But I get your point.
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