[beemerbird]

Shit! Just priced one up with 'necessary spec'.

There is quite a wait for them as well. I'd definately go down the second hand route if I take the plunge in the future. Dealer prices second hand appear to be on the high side? There is of course the M3 as well

Read an interesting article about no LSD on the Cayman. Apparently the top brass at Porsche said no as it would be then 'too close to the 911' which has to partly justify the extra 20k + price tag.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

[Gibbo]

Originally Posted by scooba0010

Try porsche in burgess hill sussex .They gladly sent me a brochure on the 911 its like a book ,They was good as gold .

That said i did mention my friend bought a carrera4 and his gt3 from them

I brought my 987 Boxster and my dad brought his 997CS from Burgess Hill. They are very good as far as OPCs go. This is part of Sytner group and I know the used car group buyer and he is also a really top bloke.

Cayman S is a fab car and far more fun than a 997 everyday in my opinion. You don't need half the kit on it to sell it 2nd hand as most the dealers would have you beleive.


Must (to sell)

Metallic
Leather
Auto Air con


Other Options (maybe)

19" alloys
Heated Seats
Sports seats (you must sit in both seat types to see what fits better)
Updrade the hi-fi the standard is a shocker and 2 speakers and tweeters in the front and you get a better system on in a £6k supermini!
PASM suspension - My opinion too soft in std. mode and rock hard in sports (porsche tyres have supported sidewalls and feel half way between normal and run flats)
NAV (do not think essential on this car)
Sports steering wheel (similar to M sport wheel)
Sports Exhaust

If I got a Cayman S, I would go:


Metallic
Leather
Auto air con (climate)
Heated Seats
Rear Parking
Std 18" wheels Steel sprung)
Sports Seats
Upgrade hifi (the £400 quid one not the rip of BOSE job!)
Sports Exhaust.

You don't need much to enjoy it.

or buy the boxster S and save another £3 to £4k

[Bumps]

All very interesting, in that the Cayman doesn't need a silly spec. Nice to know for a change. Shows it's more of the enthusiast's Porsche IMHO. The 911 is of course, too, but is much more expensive, and is the default choice for people who just want to be seen in a 'proper' Porsche, hence the need to inflate the spec to compete on the used market.

BB - any closer to a decision? The Cayman is lovely. The S has the power but Chris Harris in GT Porsche magazine loved his bog standard Cayman (the real purist's choice it would seem).

If I had considerably more disposable income than I have, I would love a tweaked Cayman as a track and sunday blast car. It's the kind of car that would look completely at home on the Nordschleife.

So what you gonna do?

[Real Thing]

Originally Posted by beemerbird

Shit! Just priced one up with 'necessary spec'.

There is quite a wait for them as well. I'd definately go down the second hand route if I take the plunge in the future. Dealer prices second hand appear to be on the high side? There is of course the M3 as well


Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

Stay with the BMW brand and go for a Alpina B3 Bi-Turbo Not far behind the M3 in Performance but about £7k cheaper

[Gibbo]

Originally Posted by Real Thing

Stay with the BMW brand and go for a Alpina B3 Bi-Turbo Not far behind the M3 in Performance but about £7k cheaper

I wonder who is buying one of these.

[Real Thing]

Originally Posted by Gibbo

I wonder who is buying one of these.

[chrisbin]

Originally Posted by beemerbird

Shit! Just priced one up with 'necessary spec'.

............I rest my case......

[Evil Diesel]

Originally Posted by beemerbird

Shit! Just priced one up with 'necessary spec'.

Don't worry - just flog a few more data disks out of the back door

[beemerbird]

Originally Posted by Bumps

BB - any closer to a decision? The Cayman is lovely. The S has the power but Chris Harris in GT Porsche magazine loved his bog standard Cayman (the real purist's choice it would seem).

So what you gonna do?

Well Bumps, Sunday could be test drive day in the Porsche and I'm working on the M3 test drive. Not in a rush and there is n'owt wrong with the 335d. Just getting the impression that from a pursits point of view, a manual gear box is the way to go and I've got to ask myself whether I would want a manual box again. No problem if you're constantly moving but my car is used daily for the commute to the workhouse and that invariably involves sitting/crawling in traffic. Nothing like as bad as 'down sarf' though I'm pleased to say.

Originally Posted by Real Thing

Stay with the BMW brand and go for a Alpina B3 Bi-Turbo Not far behind the M3 in Performance but about £7k cheaper

Good and totally unbiased suggestion Real Thing

Originally Posted by chrisbin

............I rest my case......

Yes, you're right.

Originally Posted by Evil Diesel

Don't worry - just flog a few more data disks out of the back door

What a splendid idea....why didn't I think of that I'd thought of selling something else......but then I'd be in debit.

[steve-p]

I like the Cayman S a lot. In dimensions and power it's similar to the 911 was up to and including the 993, which was perfect. The 996/997 are quite a bit bigger and for a driver's car, that's not a good thing. 993s still hold their value amazingly well even today, of course they are the last of the air cooled era, but the compact size is a factor too. Also the sheer number of 996s about, they are everywhere. The Cayman has rarity on its side at the moment too. However for the same money you could probably find a nice 993 Turbo which would depreciate very slowly and go like stink

[Z4 Beemer]

Originally Posted by beemerbird

Just getting the impression that from a pursits point of view, a manual gear box is the way to go...

Ahhh - we though it was just you weren't a purist

Seriously, the Cayman (or Boxster S) will hopefully be a future purchase of mine, and I'll be interested to hear how you get on with a test drive. I remember seeing an advertisement of a finance deal on the Boxster recently (from Porsche financial services)... the guaranteed future value was around 65% of purchase price, APR was around 8%, but it seemed like a cracking deal and I wondered if it could be negotiated a bit!

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

[Gibbo]

Helen, the manual gearbox is an absolute peach on a Porsche. Infact the best manual gearbox I have ever driven. A word of warning though the gearshift is really stiff in the first 1,500 miles of driving on a new car and takes are fair bit of arm work to get in gear. The same can be said of the first few miles on a winters day from a cold start. Don't let this put you off as once the car is up to temperature it slots beautifully through the gate. There is a short shift option but I personally would not go for a short shift gearstick as aparently they are stiff most of the time. The gears have a far more 'mechanical' feel than say a BMW. The clutch is not overheavy either so no problems there.

I would say auto option is more for a 997 if you are using it as a long distance cruiser.

Enjoy your test drives and let us know how you get on. You have got me tempted as well.

On the depreciation front honestly the more you spend the more you loose. You only have to look at sites like Rennteam to see people who have put 10k of options on a boxster/cayman and they are worth the same 2nd hand as cars with 3k of the right options.

And anyway if you start to replicate BMW spec's i.e. auto dimming mirrors, auto wipe etc you will spend £2k on stuff that imo you won't give a monkeys about once you have the car.

[beemerbird]

Gordon, I know......it has to be a manual. Just that I've forgotten what my left leg is for

Peter, thanks again for your opinions, I realise you have some knowledge of Porsche's and it helps to hear from everyone who knows their 'stuff'.

Dealer rang me today and has confirmed I am more than welcome to drive over and 'have a play'. Made sure he knew what car I already had etc. The one I've spotted has approx. 10k worth of extras on it, is a March '07 and has done 3k. I can't judge the depreciation as I'm really not sure what 'mark up' Porsche dealers put on their used cars? They've got it on the forecourt for £9,500 less than it's original price new. As usual, I will not be getting into a debate of what I think my car is worth etc. All I'm interested in is the price to change and what the car drives and feels like etc.

Now, question is, will I remember to depress the clutch - tough one that. Think I may just be able to manage it.

[Gibbo]

Originally Posted by beemerbird

Gordon, I know......it has to be a manual. Just that I've forgotten what my left leg is for

Peter, thanks again for your opinions, I realise you have some knowledge of Porsche's and it helps to hear from everyone who knows their 'stuff'.

Dealer rang me today and has confirmed I am more than welcome to drive over and 'have a play'. Made sure he knew what car I already had etc. The one I've spotted has approx. 10k worth of extras on it, is a March '07 and has done 3k. I can't judge the depreciation as I'm really not sure what 'mark up' Porsche dealers put on their used cars? They've got it on the forecourt for £9,500 less than it's original price new. As usual, I will not be getting into a debate of what I think my car is worth etc. All I'm interested in is the price to change and what the car drives and feels like etc.

Now, question is, will I remember to depress the clutch - tough one that. Think I may just be able to manage it.

If the car is say £40k on the forecourt they will have paid £35 to £36k on it as they want to make £4k to £5k on this car. (maybe even far more if it's got 10k of options because they will not have overpaid for these options and hence you should not either!)


i.e 55k (10k) new optioned Cayman S
ie. 50k (5k) new optioned Cayman S

Dealer would have paid the same for both as trade in (maybe 1k more max for the 55k car.

Trade in will probably be poor even if they have BMW dealers in the group. You will get more money from a BMW dealer etc by doing a bit of phone work yourself.

You will get a token discount on a 2nd hand car £500 or they may fit a tracker or similar as a gesture.

Defo try a triptronic as it's a far better box than what the press say but if you use the paddles on the BMW you may be dissapointed with the buttons on the wheel for changing gear. The BMW paddles have a feel to them but the Porsche are just buttons with a slight delay. Auto has no sports mode it just goes gentle/hard at anytime depending on right foot movement.

[Gibbo]

Also Porsche come with 2 year warrenty from new not 3 like everyone else.

Service is 20k or 2 yrs and reasonable. Check the cars discs as they can easily get warped if cleaned when hot (I think) or left wet after washing and are about £1000 to replace. I have heard quite a few stories of cars needing new discs after about 6,000 miles and Porsche will not cover under warrenty (James May from Top Gear had this on his S and went mad with Porsche GB and they would not budge)

It's about £900 to extend into 3rd year so this could be a point to barter on.

[chrisbin]

Check the clutch as well......otherwise I'd agree with all that Gibbo has posted - ime £6k margin on used at OPC's...

Have fun, but go into it with eyes wide open - it will depreciate pretty much the same as your Beemer...but they will try and tell you different....

[beemerbird]

Once again, many thanks guys for your opinions - 'tis appreciated.

Interesting comments about the discs and clutch, will check them over. I had read about the rather miserly 2 year warranty, seems strange IMO. Surely as a prestige marque they are confident in their product, or does it come down to volume production/sales and cost etc.?

Certainly looking forward to 'becoming acquainted' with the car and I will post my thoughts and feelings on how the overall experience went.

[Bumps]

Saw a white Cayman S on the A3 yesterday (just before I passed the "34 minutes to Hindhead" sign - about 3 miles away - and they weren't joking). Anyway the Cayman looked fantastic. I'd be seriously tempted. Lots of pics please Helen when you test drive the Porker.

[scotw]

Originally Posted by beemerbird

Once again, many thanks guys for your opinions - 'tis appreciated.

Interesting comments about the discs and clutch, will check them over. I had read about the rather miserly 2 year warranty, seems strange IMO. Surely as a prestige marque they are confident in their product, or does it come down to volume production/sales and cost etc.?

Certainly looking forward to 'becoming acquainted' with the car and I will post my thoughts and feelings on how the overall experience went.

Have a great drive Helen, personally the Cayman is the one I would go for, if my wife would let me I really don't subscribe to the "proper Porche" argument that you get from some quarters, for me I think the Cayman looks fantastic, easily the prettiest car Porsche make at the moment (mind you, with that guppy faced one in the range, it would hard to be the ugliest).

I moved from auto back to manual with the E90 and while every once in a while I miss the ease of the auto, I'm more than happy and I'll bet you would be too.

Have fun and hold on to your bank balance!

[mikem]

Good luck with the test drive, Porsche`s mark up on used will be £6K minimum, or so I was told at an OPC this week.

Cayman is a great looking car and said to have the best handling of all current Porsche`s, if you don`t drive balls out all the time, the S may have all the power you need but don`t buy new, you`ll loose a fortune.

Also don`t get to hung up on looking for one with Sat Nav, you`d be surprised how many haven`t, even Turbos that I`ve been looking at (i would say Gibbo`s spec above is about bang on the money). PCCB don`t have a great reputation either, lots of GT2/3`s have had theirs replaced with steel ones as they kept cracking on track.

You will notice a huge difference in the way the dealer treats you compared to BMW, I went to see a GT3 in Nottingham this week and was treated brilliantly and we never even got as far as talking prices (even after the test drive and I told him it wasn`t for me. He didn`t spit his dummy out once).

[Gibbo]

Originally Posted by mikem

Good luck with the test drive, Porsche`s mark up on used will be £6K minimum, or so I was told at an OPC this week.

Cayman is a great looking car and said to have the best handling of all current Porsche`s, if you don`t drive balls out all the time, the S may have all the power you need but don`t buy new, you`ll loose a fortune.

Also don`t get to hung up on looking for one with Sat Nav, you`d be surprised how many haven`t, even Turbos that I`ve been looking at (i would say Gibbo`s spec above is about bang on the money). PCCB don`t have a great reputation either, lots of GT2/3`s have had theirs replaced with steel ones as they kept cracking on track.

You will notice a huge difference in the way the dealer treats you compared to BMW, I went to see a GT3 in Nottingham this week and was treated brilliantly and we never even got as far as talking prices (even after the test drive and I told him it wasn`t for me. He didn`t spit his dummy out once).

I sold my 10 month old Boxster back to my opc and they marked it up 4K above what they paid me for it. This is a bit exceptional and most others were offering £1000 to £1500 less. My win (if you can call the price a win)was they had no 987 Boxsters in stock at the time and I bargin hard (and price around many places). My car was mint and had no bumper/bonnet chips so avoided the front end respray and they had 2 months to sell it before they had to pay for a 1yr warrenty for the car. All 2nd hand have to be sold with 1 yr warrenty and if mine had gone to 11 months left (say 3 months in stock) they would have had to put a full yr on it.

On paper it may be £6k from what they buy it but if there is a front end respray, preperation and warrenty regardless of what this costs the dealer it all eats into margin. Also depends on how hard people barter with a dealer. Like you say it's a very nice place to do business in a porsche dealer and if you stand firm with them they can try to make you feel out of place. (all part of there sales training)

I think don't buy new is a sweeping statement which I agree with a lot of the sentiment in principle more relevant on say 2.5 to 3 yr old cars. My worry is once you have paid the opc's 6k 2nd hand mark up your car is worth 6k less the day you drive away. This feels the same 6k that you loose on the 'lightly specced' new one when you drive out the door. The new one has 2yrs warrenty and new consumables. The trade off then may be potentially higher spec 2nd hand vs peace of mind of new and what is worth more to you plus 2nd hand is availible straight away.

For me a lightly specced Boxster S feels the pic of the range. (I am not into convertibles - although on a summer evening very nice thank you.) It's a little bit more complaint than a Cayman and 4k cheaper.

And if you are buying 2nd hand do it at the end of the month as they are on monthly targets - and sales overiders come in to the staff on the number they sell. You want to deal with the person in the dealership who needs just one more car for the big bucks to kick in.


Why is the GT3 not for you?

[mikem]

Originally Posted by Gibbo

Why is the GT3 not for you?

Without waffling on too much Gibbo, it just didn`t feel special enough for the £50K price tag (strange I know, seeing as it was £80K + with the Club Sport package when new).

The steering feel is unbeleivable, no tramlining, no wandering, nothing, even when I placed it slightly off centre against the camber of the road and loosened my grip, it stayed there.

The suspension seemed quite smooth over light bumps compared to mine but still jarred as much as mine over sudden bigger impacts.

I managed to get my arse into the buckets (which I was suprised at) but couldn`t sit back properly as they were to narrow, the steering wheel wasn`t height adjustable (only reach) which seemed strange as it was lower than I`d normally use and made seeing the speedometer almost impossible. There was a digital readout of speed but its quite small and re-focussing from the road and back felt weird.

At low revs the engine sounded awful, to the point where turning in and out of junctions sounded like a scraping, draging noise (like a knackered diff on an M car) as the revs rise the engine note is superb and there`s a definite feel of more power above 6K on full throttle but just as you think "here we go" and settle down it hits the limiter at 7.8K (for a hand built, dry sumped engine with a replacement cost of £40K I think it would`ve been much, much better if had the ability to rev to 9K). In truth Gibbo it felt no quicker than mine in a straight line (I got upto about 6K in 4th) but much more compromised, sure around a track in the right hands it would be quicker than mine but I don`t think you`ll find many of those "right hands."

The fact that it in Dec `06 it had £20K (not sure if this included VAT or not) worth of track damage repair done capped it off really, If I had the space and the funds to keep the M and the GT3, I would buy one in a heartbeat (minus the buckets and accident damage) but as an only "toy" I think the novelty would soon wear off, unless you were keeping it at a track and spent all your "playtime" there.

I had a testdrive booked in a Turbo yesterday and after drinking coffee for 40 mins waiting for the salesman, I was then informed by a very apologetic salesmanager that the car had gone to the bodyshop to get some stonechips removed (car had only done 12K) so the search continues, I think.





Sorry to go off topic BB, they did have a stunning Cayman S there `tho in Carrera White, with Red Decals on the side "GT3 RS style" with Turbo wheels on it (would`ve looked much nicer with White or Red wheels `tho) and I think its an awesome looking car at quite sensible money really, for a new Porsche.