[Gibbo]

Sat Nav option on most cars is still in the £1500 to £2000 price range and this does not appear to have changed from say 5 years ago. I accept technology has improved and the systems of 2010 are far better and have other non nav related features.

To me it feels like manafacturers make huge profits on this plus the bluetooth option. I have never brought it but if it was say £800 for nav and bluetooth it would be a more interesting option for the majority of new car buyers. If BMW was to lead with more reasonable pricing the volumes sold may actually payback vs current higher price and give a competitive edge vs Audi, Merc until they follow.

I really thought 5 years ago this would become a reasonable price option in time but it appears this is not the case. Am I missing something??

[peterg1965]

I also suspect most cars are actually 'fitted for but not with' when you don't have satnav. The wiring is probably all there along with the electrical connections. No doubt though, it is a complete rip off. Some cars can be retrofitted, clearly the E90 3 series isn't one of them if it doesn't have the additional dashboard hump.

[jwbmw]

An additional issue over and above the price is system age. Cars and the incorporated hardware are probably designed 2 to 3 years in advance of release. Therefore the hardware and possibly the software (though more easily updated but restricted by hardware) could be out of date soon after the vehicles hit the show room. Therefore the BMW system in the E9x was probably specified in 2003 or 4!

I once met somebody who worked for an OEM supplier and they confirmed the above and the fact that they would never go for built in sat nav unless it came as standard!

[Cafe.Racer]

It's something that winds me up - I've never bothered with factory sat nav, mainly because of the cost, but I've had TomTom on a PDA since.... well, I waited for version 2 to come out because they didn't do an upgrade from 1 > 2.

Currently running it on my Windows Mobile Phone. It comes with me rather than staying in the car, so it's useful when I go abroad in a hire car, or go into Laaaandan by train/tube/foot.

The features are better than any built in I've seen, even the graphics/speed are better.

The biggest "thing" about built-in is the nice big screen. What we need manufacturers to do is to provide a way of connecting/remote desktoping a WinMo/iPhone/Android onto the big screen so you can use it as a remote display.

You could have your phone-based sat nav, phone, contacts etc without the limitations of bluetooth protocols and the change in user interface. Might even be easier for the manufacturers as they wouldn't have to do allthe software design, development and maintenance themselves. Switching over to the car's "native" menu system would have to be thought through, though.

Of course, the possibility of running something else on the screen would probably have the legal/compliance departments in knots, though, so it'll never happen.

It'll never happen, though.

[rogerxp]

It is very expensive however, in it's slight defence (never thought I'd say that) it is more than just navigation (in a Beemer at least), it's your stereo, heater controls, service data, etc. It does help you control and 'navigate' around your cars controls.

Yes, it is expensive. Yes, it's nearly alway crap (I've lost count of the times I've pulled up & got my laptop out with AutoRoute on the passenger seat). But it does make your car more attractive come resale time (not necessarily add value, certainly not what you paid for the option, but will speed up a sale). I'll always chose it because a) when it works it's useful, b) the resale issue and most importantly c) it fits in seamlessly and looks good with no wires or anything hanging around and rattling!!!

[Em135eye]

Strange how much stick I've had for not having satnav (which I don't want) yet here is a post showing clearly why I think it's daft.

I don't like satnav at all but if I did want/need it, I'd get the latest TomTom for £300 and be done with it. Even my mobile phone has satnav that works as well as, if not better than £1500 BMW systems.

Does everyone buy there car just to sell it? I don't give two hoots what the next buyer wants - the car will be kept for many years and probably be worth a fiver by the time we sell it anyway. Spending £1500++ because the car might be more saleable is crazy IMO. As for i-drive - I hate it. I don't want to navigate through several screens just to turn my heating up. There are intuitive, well placed and well made controls for that. And single touch too.

I'm sure this will result in rage from this with what is effectivly an i-car.

[TMP]

Originally Posted by rogerxp

It is very expensive however, in it's slight defence (never thought I'd say that) it is more than just navigation (in a Beemer at least), it's your stereo, heater controls, service data, etc. It does help you control and 'navigate' around your cars controls.

Yes, it is expensive. Yes, it's nearly alway crap (I've lost count of the times I've pulled up & got my laptop out with AutoRoute on the passenger seat). But it does make your car more attractive come resale time (not necessarily add value, certainly not what you paid for the option, but will speed up a sale). I'll always chose it because a) when it works it's useful, b) the resale issue and most importantly c) it fits in seamlessly and looks good with no wires or anything hanging around and rattling!!!

+1 on its the whole navigation for the car

-1 on being crap - mine is fine and no less reliable as my old TomTom

[NFS]

I'd agree generally that factory fitted satnav is a rip off, but oddly enough on the 3'er you do get quite a lot for your money.

For £1500 you get idrive, the old pro nav, voice control, bluetooth and BMW online. This is a reduction in cost compared to launch prices.

For £ 400 more you get the new system.

The point is that you are not just buying sat nav, you are buying an idrive interface. As I use my car for work I find these things to be very helpful. If I didn't, then I wouldn't see any value in it.

Surely it's a personal view about how you wish to use the car?

[Em135eye]

Of course it's a personal view. Satnav and i-drive are clearly must haves for many. Just not everyone.

[NFS]

Originally Posted by 335diesel

Of course it's a personal view. Satnav and i-drive are clearly must haves for many. Just not everyone.

Blimey .. that was a bit of a reasonable response. Are you feeling alright Matt?

[Em135eye]

Originally Posted by NFS

Blimey .. that was a bit of a reasonable response. Are you feeling alright Matt?

I took my pills on time this morning for once....

[dxb335d]

''Why is factory fit sat-nav still so expensive..??''

Cuz its the freakin' bowlacks

[gIzzE]

I don't understand why people buy a TomTom and understand even less why they buy a Garmin, both have really, really poor route algorithms.

iGo and Navigon are on a whole other level.

I agree the nav is too expensive, you get it free on some cheap Jap cars these days.
However you are buying an infotainment system which includes nav, so more than just some maps.
Also I found the BMW nav is better at routing than most aftermarket units and even more so with the newer HDD based system, which is iGo based.

It also makes the car feel a lot more up to date.

[Dave_3]

Another factor is that BMW need to spec and install the same component throughout the lifetime of that car model. And consistently test the satnav unit (as part of the whole infrastructure of the infotainments system - not stand alone) for compatability with all other functions AND updates (e.g. Progman). A modern car has more electronic modules and logic gates in the door switches than my old car has in total. Each of these many and varied units must be compatible, work as expected and cause no interference with any other modules.

Stand alone units are not designed to have a shelf life of around 5 years, or are connected to a very complicated electronic network and tested for compatibility with present or future updates, or will be actively supported with their own updates for 5 years.

True, there is mark-up on the idrive.

D.

[AlanQS]

In an E92, you get Sat Nav Pro and bluetooth for £2,500 and yes, you do get an entire system for the money including i-drive and all the facilities that go with it.

Pity the poor 5er buyer. He's already got the i-drive installation and just to get the sat nav component, he's forking out over £1,800 - that really IS a rip-off.

There are lots of price inconsistencies in and amongst the various BMW ranges. The 3 series coupe has always been more expensive than the equivalent engined 5 series - which I don't get, especially as now, with the new five series, it is much more highly equipped than the E92- which didn't use to be the case.

[Irnbrukid]

Originally Posted by AlanQS

In an E92, you get Sat Nav Pro and bluetooth for £2,500 and yes, you do get an entire system for the money including i-drive and all the facilities that go with it.

Pity the poor 5er buyer. He's already got the i-drive installation and just to get the sat nav component, he's forking out over £1,800 - that really IS a rip-off.

There are lots of price inconsistencies in and amongst the various BMW ranges. The 3 series coupe has always been more expensive than the equivalent engined 5 series - which I don't get, especially as now, with the new five series, it is much more highly equipped than the E92- which didn't use to be the case.

It doesnt cost £2,500 its just under £2k for the pro media pack which has nav bt voice control etc all included.

[Irnbrukid]

My take on the subject is for cars higher up the range 330/335 then the navigation is a must, it takes the interior of the car up another notch. You can get away with not specing nav on 320d's etc but on the bigger cars its a no-no.

The flip side is that bigger engined cars without it are hurt on price which suits some people better as they can get into a car with a better engine at a cheaper price. And for those who keep a car short term like a few on here (who like to chop and change) then i think nav is essential on nearly new cars it can make i big difference in price and desirability of a car in some cases actually more than the option is worth.

For me i would never buy a 335 without nav & xenons, unless you want to keep it forever.

And for those who moan or question the above notion phone a few dealers and offer them one without the option and see how long it takes them to put the phone down...

[AlanQS]

That's why I said specifically, E92. There are no packs for the coupe. You're right about E90, I'm right about E92.

[Em135eye]

But what if you don't want i-drive and don't need or like satnav?

Then it's about as useful as selecting an in car fridge - silly money and pointless.

Not just me that doesn't like it either:

http://themobileexperience.blogspot....lly-sucks.html

And many journos have criticised it too.

Now to have something I find irritating just because it might make the car more attractive to sell (by which time it will be ancient anyway) is insane.

http://www.uselog.com/2007/12/more-b...lution-of.html

Inside the 3-series, the shapes and the controls are mostly carried over, but the materials are upgraded to alleviate the somewhat stark overall appearance. The iDrive system has gone through another round of simplifications. The navigation menu looks suspiciously similar to that of Audi’s MMI system; a few useful buttons let you bypass the system. We don’t exactly love it now, but it’s user-friendly enough not to make you run anymore. You can still skip iDrive altogether by not ordering a factory-installed navigation system


Like the customers who will eventually use it, iDrive will either adapt or die. As my review of the Seven (7 series) will reveal, the actual car-the bit that all this trickery is designed to control-is a superb work of automotive engineering. By adding an uber gizmo, The Boys From Bavaria have revealed a bizarre lack of confidence in and focus on their core values. The company that builds 'The Ultimate Driving Machine' is the one company that should know an over-complicated and dangerous distraction when it sees one. The iDrive is not, as BMW claims, 'A New Way to Drive'. It is, in fact, a new way to die.


Now Irnbru we all know you love having a pop, we all know you won't admit to what 3er you actually drive, we know you love negativity but to suggest a dealer won't take a heavily-in-demand low mileage 335d because it hasn't got xenons or satnav is the most ludicrous piece of self justification I have ever seen. Complete and utter cr4p. Have you added to this thread? No you have just had cheap shots. Do you in fact even own a 3 series BMW? I'm beginning to doubt it.

[Irnbrukid]

thought it was changing with the lci to give the pro media pack (vis pack not needed on e92/93)? as they did when the e90/91 got the lci treatment.

[flyfs6]

Without wishing to get flamed. I don't understand why journalists in particular dislike the idrive system so much? I find it very easy to use, infact I think the original system is easier to navigate around than the newer and superior version of BMW's idrive (short cut buttons out of equation).

Though some manufacturers are beginning to be a bit more competitive, overall I agree factory sat nav's are very expensive in comparison to portable unit. However the factory units are little bit more like the good systems by Alpine, Pioneer etc.

[Em135eye]

Originally Posted by flyfs6

Without wishing to get flamed. I don't understand why journalists in particular dislike the idrive system so much? I find it very easy to use, infact I think the original system is easier to navigate around than the newer and superior version of BMW's idrive (short cut buttons out of equation).

Though some manufacturers are beginning to be a bit more competitive, overall I agree factory sat nav's are very expensive.

I guess it's partly because they don't get time to get used to the system. However my inlaws had it in their 535d and found it utterly hateful even months into ownership.

I'm sure it's improved now (or maybe not as your comments suggest) but it put me off for life.

I've used the 3er system and it is slightly better but I just don't see why intuitive controls need replacing with a central computer that often seems pretty slow.

The i-drive in the X5 actually seems to be the best I've used but I'd still rather not have it - in fact the 3er NOT having i-drive as standard was a big factor in getting one over the bigger 535d Touring.

So while it may suit many, to suggest it's somehow essential is irritating at best, utterly ludicrous at worst.