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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Procede Fuel Control



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      02-10-2012, 08:53 PM   #1
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Exclamation Procede Fuel Control

There's a small group of folks out there who are trying very hard to convince others that only a flash can control fuel properly. I've never agreed with them because actual testing that I'VE ACTUALLY DONE suggested otherwise. We have spent the last 6 months developing the fuel control system on the Procede to outperform every other tuning device we have ever bench tested. This means the Procede isn't just programmed to provide consistent AFR targeting but also FAST targeting.

Today we put the Procede to the test with what is perhaps the biggest challenge any n54 tune has ever faced: A single turbo set-up making nearly 500whp on pump gas alone. First, here is a graph showing all our runs during the day. Roughly half where on 93oct pump gas alone. The rest were on 93+meth. At power levels ranging from 450whp to 525whp:



Earlier in the dyno session, we did a test to see how fast the Procede will target AFR post-shift. To do this, I did a 3rd to 4th gear pull (with a FAST shift) on the dyno running 17psi with NO METH. With dyno smoothing set to 0. I don't recommend running a nearly 480whp car in 3rd gear on the dyno (it gets a bit wiggly) but, in this case, it was in the name of science. Dynojet lambda meter was mounted in the tailpipe (not logged from factory lambda sensors)



As you can see, AFR targeting is immediate. No short-term lean spot post-shift. As you would expect AFR is even richer than normal during fast accel and dynamic load conditions.

I don't mean to present this info to be argumentative. Instead, I hope to be informative. We actually do spend a lot of out time developing and testing engine control systems. While it's a lot easier to play in the internet warrior game, it really doesn't get us anywhere.

my 2c,
Shiv
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      02-10-2012, 08:57 PM   #2
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Well put
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      02-10-2012, 09:09 PM   #3
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Damn, I knew that 500hp ceiling had to be Internet lore. Great job all around, guys. That single turbo is going to put Vishnu over the top.
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      02-10-2012, 09:12 PM   #4
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Excellent! Glad after 6 months you've managed to address the issues I/we talked about...looks great, congrats again!
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      02-11-2012, 01:44 AM   #5
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That's just a nasty AFR (in the good way) lol. Can't wait to see a dyno glory run.
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      02-11-2012, 07:01 AM   #6
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      02-11-2012, 09:59 AM   #7
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Shiv, you basically taught this community everything we know, youre the first to tune our cars, the first to make good power, the first to use canbus to get dash displays, first to get autotuning etc.
I have no doubt in my mind that you will fine tune this single turbo to perfection. I cant wait to see it, and thank you for taking the time to post this up.
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      02-11-2012, 10:01 AM   #8
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Its premature negativity that keeps people from sharing information ad they go. I'm sure Shiv was prepared and is only showing a fraction of what he has accomplished for fear of the anti fanboys running off and creating negativity. It's a shame because many of the negativity nancies provide good information and a contribution to the community when theyre not acting catty.
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      02-11-2012, 10:02 AM   #9
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I think everyone is waving their flag just a little too hard. If you prefer the by-the-book proper way to address a tune - wait for Cobb to get here, it will come eventually. For those that dont want to wait and appreciate the additional functions that are not available on a flash tune, enjoy your PROcede. Congrats Shiv.

*Before anyone starts claiming nut swinger status - i am just trying to be real. I, for one, prefer the by-the-book approach. To each his own fellas.
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      02-11-2012, 11:24 AM   #10
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Lovely how completely sincere, non-offensive and non-engaging comments have the tendency to completely disappear!
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      02-11-2012, 12:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov
Lovely how completely sincere, non-offensive and non-engaging comments have the tendency to completely disappear!
Lol yea what happened that was rather fast oh wellllllll
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      02-11-2012, 12:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov
Lovely how completely sincere, non-offensive and non-engaging comments have the tendency to completely disappear!
Lol seriously, what the Hell. So this is what it's like to live in a communist country.....
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      02-11-2012, 01:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
Lovely how completely sincere, non-offensive and non-engaging comments have the tendency to completely disappear!
I saw it,
But Im sure Shiv dorsnt want to get into details of his project just yet until he is done.
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      02-11-2012, 01:01 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemw335
Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
Lovely how completely sincere, non-offensive and non-engaging comments have the tendency to completely disappear!
I saw it,
But Im sure Shiv dorsnt want to get into details of his project just yet until he is done.
I had nothing to do with the pruning of this thread. I was actually looking forward to responding.
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      02-11-2012, 01:05 PM   #15
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Just thinking about how crazy it must have been in 3rd on the dyno in this beast. Then shifting into 4th ahhhhhh Shiv I need a ride soon
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      02-11-2012, 01:07 PM   #16
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My bad Shiv,
I guess the mods though it would start something..
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      02-11-2012, 01:29 PM   #17
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Logs look great!

I never understood the "flash" guys always claiming superiority when it came to AFR control.

Glad you proved them wrong.

Cant wait to get my PWM kit working, hopefully talk to you guys early this week to get it all figured out.

-Travis
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      02-11-2012, 05:49 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lulz_M3 View Post
I think everyone is waving their flag just a little too hard. If you prefer the by-the-book proper way to address a tune - wait for Cobb to get here, it will come eventually. For those that dont want to wait and appreciate the additional functions that are not available on a flash tune, enjoy your PROcede. Congrats Shiv.

*Before anyone starts claiming nut swinger status - i am just trying to be real. I, for one, prefer the by-the-book approach. To each his own fellas.
I hate to break it to you but some of the mapping tricks employed by n54 flashes aren't by-the-book. In many respects they are even more evasive than what goes on with the Procede. Does tricking the DME to run more boost by making the MAP sensor's calibration nonlinear sound by-the-book? Can you imagine how mis-calibrating the main engine load sensor effects other engine parameters?
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      02-11-2012, 05:53 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by werke-t View Post
Logs look great!

I never understood the "flash" guys always claiming superiority when it came to AFR control.

Glad you proved them wrong.

Cant wait to get my PWM kit working, hopefully talk to you guys early this week to get it all figured out.

-Travis
I think most people make claims based upon what they heard from "reliable sources". Unfortunately, if you take the time to track back the sources of these claims, they aren't so reliable.

Give us a call on Monday and we can help you with your meth kit

Shiv
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      02-11-2012, 05:55 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
I hate to break it to you but some of the mapping tricks employed by n54 flashes aren't by-the-book. In many respects they are even more evasive than what goes on with the Procede. Does tricking the DME to run more boost by making the MAP sensor's calibration nonlinear sound by-the-book? Can you imagine how mis-calibrating the main engine load sensor effects other engine parameters?
You may be right but i have faith that once the ability for anyone to tune the factory tables is in place, things will get interesting. Im curious as to why Vishnu has never dabbled into flash tunes for the N54? You guys obviously know what you are doing. If i remember correctly you guys offer flash tunes for other applications, correct?
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      02-11-2012, 06:06 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lulz_M3 View Post
You may be right but i have faith that once the ability for anyone to tune the factory tables is in place, things will get interesting. Im curious as to why Vishnu has never dabbled into flash tunes for the N54? You guys obviously know what you are doing. If i remember correctly you guys offer flash tunes for other applications, correct?
The ability to tune factory tables will not likely be in place. More likely, you will be tuning "interpretations" of factory tables. Let's be honest here. There are hundreds of tables, most of which the tuners don't understand or feel comfortable editing. They make selective edits until they think they get a positive outcome. Without a road map, does this sound like a text book tuning approach?

We have the ability to read/write the MSD80/81. But after seeing all the round-about mapping tricks required to simply run a desired boost target, the idea of tuning a complete system wasn't realistic. Especially since we can achieve same or better effects with the Procede but with no chance of incurring the wraith of a misplaced bit or unforeseen inter-table relationship/dependancy.

Don't get me wrong, I'm considering bumping up my redline by 100-200rpm. And maybe changing my idle speed to reduce some lightweight flywheel rattle. These things can only be done with flashes. But in terms of the fun stuff, I'm a firm believer doing what works and what I'm comfortable with. Not to mention I value full integration when it comes to things like stand alone boost control and meth control. Stacking tunes/electronics is good example. It works, sure. But NEVER as well or as safely as an integrated solution. In the end, you are left with functionality gaps that could have been avoided.

Shiv

Last edited by OpenFlash; 02-11-2012 at 06:16 PM..
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      02-11-2012, 07:27 PM   #22
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Shiv, how far are we from running a completely standalone engine management system like AEM?
My old "tuner" car (3000GT VR4) was good with stock ECU up until 550-600awhp, after that you had to get stand-alone because stock ECU could not handle larger injectors, higher redline, etc. Granted the car was designed in early 90's things were a little simpler back then.
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