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      04-04-2023, 04:32 PM   #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5Rick View Post
The jumping of the previous W13 also affected the older Hamilton more than the younger Russell I should have added.
As Wolff said last year : LEW got brain damage by the bouncing .

Well , for once I agree with Wolff
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      04-04-2023, 04:43 PM   #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
As Wolff said last year : LEW got brain damage by the bouncing .

Well , for once I agree with Wolff
No wonder no wins came last year for him and the fallout from being crushed by Max added to the brain pain.
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      04-04-2023, 07:57 PM   #465
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Originally Posted by zero21 View Post
Lewis' qualifying record against George is not going to go down well in history. Dude needs to find some speed over a lap fast or the excuses and nonchalance will not bode well for his reputation.

He either lost it, George is the next phenom, or he was never as good as claimed (and his teammates). Only one is true.
I would think there is a very good reason why ALO called GR a future World Champion.
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      04-05-2023, 06:31 AM   #466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
As Wolff said last year : LEW got brain damage by the bouncing .

Well , for once I agree with Wolff
That's not the only thing that will pain him as much as Felipe having his stolen '08 championship reinstated back to him
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      04-05-2023, 02:15 PM   #467
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Originally Posted by zero21 View Post
The issue is the fact that Ecclestone knew, and took a long term view of the situation to protect the sport, but in doing so completely violated it's bylaws.

Mass has every right to get his championship back and reverse the situation.

Unfortunately that puts Lewis in a bad spot. Lewis should man up and hand it over to Massa unprovoked to protect his reputation as the good guy he wants to be known as. It was Massa's title as the rules say Singapore should have been nullified.
Your moral argument is not irrational, but Massa had the facts available back in 2009 so I think its too late.

The problem with the cheating by Piquet and Renault is that it harmed the sport and everyone in it. How do we unwind all that? Its a cluster for sure.
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      04-05-2023, 02:20 PM   #468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Chiles View Post
Your moral argument is not irrational, but Massa had the facts available back in 2009 so I think its too late.

The problem with the cheating by Piquet and Renault is that it harmed the sport and everyone in it. How do we unwind all that? Its a cluster for sure.
Agree.

The issue is that new facts came to light with the Bernie Ecclestone interview. In 2009 he stated they only found out that year after the ceremony. He's now saying they found out in 2008, and Max Mosley (FIA President) knew as well. That completely changes the ball game because then it is essentially the FIA certifying a false championship as their own laws and regulations state the round would have been excluded out right.

Even if he doesn't get the trophy, he clearly has a damages case against the FIA and FOM/Bernie.

The short and sweet of it is, they screwed him out of the championship, no worse than what Piquet did for Briatore.

This is a giant cluster for sure.
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      04-05-2023, 05:11 PM   #469
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      04-05-2023, 06:19 PM   #470
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      04-05-2023, 11:33 PM   #471
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      04-06-2023, 07:52 AM   #472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zero21 View Post
Agree.

The issue is that new facts came to light with the Bernie Ecclestone interview. In 2009 he stated they only found out that year after the ceremony. He's now saying they found out in 2008, and Max Mosley (FIA President) knew as well. That completely changes the ball game because then it is essentially the FIA certifying a false championship as their own laws and regulations state the round would have been excluded out right.

Even if he doesn't get the trophy, he clearly has a damages case against the FIA and FOM/Bernie.

The short and sweet of it is, they screwed him out of the championship, no worse than what Piquet did for Briatore.

This is a giant cluster for sure.
So really the biggest asterisk ever goes over Ham’s WDC - hopefully they’ll restore it to the rightful winner given the blatant cheating.
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      04-06-2023, 08:19 AM   #473
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Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
So really the biggest asterisk ever goes over Ham’s WDC - hopefully they’ll restore it to the rightful winner given the blatant cheating.
Maybe.

The unfortunate consequence to this would be opening the floodgates to things like Mercedes gripes about Abu Dhabi only letting certain cars through (which in my opinion would never have changed the result anyway).

They need to tread lightly on this, while acknowledging what happened and the consequences that Massa will literally always be known to have been robbed of a WDC.

An article was written on Planet F1 about no precedent for nullifying a whole race. Unfortunately for that argument, it's against the rules based on what happened so Singapore 2008 should absolutely be written off. Then what happens though to all the results, pay-outs given, and any other championship standings that changed...a whole can of worms unfortunately.
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      04-06-2023, 08:27 AM   #474
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All the hammy's wanna put an asterisk on VER's first WDC.

Now scHAM has one on his
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      04-06-2023, 08:28 AM   #475
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Luca di Montezemolo,former Ferrari President for 23 years has come on to say that the reds basically are falling deeper into a shaft through many things that were thought to have been already sorted and it's not a short term problem.
Here he is
https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/10...rtterm-crisis/
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      04-06-2023, 09:55 AM   #476
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The litter behind the barrier...WTH!
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      04-06-2023, 03:53 PM   #477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5Rick View Post
That's not the only thing that will pain him as much as Felipe having his stolen '08 championship reinstated back to him


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      04-06-2023, 04:06 PM   #478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post


Well my friend the vid is wtf1 so what the f* the race should be annulled and the title be handed to Massa. As Felipe said Lance Armstrong had to hand all his titles back well after being found out for his misdemeanours and being 'written in stone' is meaningless when new evidence like this emerges.
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      04-06-2023, 07:03 PM   #479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5Rick View Post
Well my friend the vid is wtf1 so what the f* the race should be annulled and the title be handed to Massa. As Felipe said Lance Armstrong had to hand all his titles back well after being found out for his misdemeanours and being 'written in stone' is meaningless when new evidence like this emerges.
Now, we get to see if Sir Lewis Hamilton will man up and do the right thing. My guess is his true narcissist cowardly entitled a$$ won't...WORTHLESS!!!

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      04-07-2023, 06:53 AM   #480
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[QUOTE=///M Power-Belgium;30009286]


Fred has to leave Ferrari, he is now criticising RB's cost cap punishment which he says was weak, as a reason for Ferrari falling apart internally. I say get Mattia back asap.
https://racingnews365.com/ferrari-bo...-li-2023-04-07
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      04-07-2023, 08:34 AM   #481
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Wishful thinking Fernie
https://racingnews365.com/alonso-hop...g-t-2023-04-07 -- and press 'More information'

Last edited by M5Rick; 04-07-2023 at 08:39 AM..
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      04-07-2023, 08:42 AM   #482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5Rick View Post
Well my friend the vid is wtf1 so what the f* the race should be annulled and the title be handed to Massa. As Felipe said Lance Armstrong had to hand all his titles back well after being found out for his misdemeanours and being 'written in stone' is meaningless when new evidence like this emerges.
Two things.

First, Ham did not cheat like Armstrong did. Ham won bc the officials did not follow the rules and ignored Piquet and Renault’s cheating, and played no part in Piquet’s intentional crash.

Second, Massa should have pressed the issue when read about (like we all did) Piquet’s admission that Piquet and the team cheated back in 2009. I might be convinced otherwise, but the new evidence that the officials refused to timely act on the cheating doesn’t seem to help Massa’s case now, 14 years later.
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      04-07-2023, 08:48 AM   #483
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Wishful thinking Fernie
https://racingnews365.com/alonso-hop...g-t-2023-04-07 -- and press 'More information'
A $7,000,000 fine for going $400,000 over the cap is not enough?

WTF, does Vasseur want to steal the whiney bitch title from Horny?
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      04-07-2023, 09:00 AM   #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Chiles View Post
Two things.

First, Ham did not cheat like Armstrong did. Ham won bc the officials did not follow the rules and ignored Piquet and Renault’s cheating, and played no part in Piquet’s intentional crash.

Second, Massa should have pressed the issue when read about (like we all did) Piquet’s admission that Piquet and the team cheated back in 2009. I might be convinced otherwise, but the new evidence that the officials refused to timely act on the cheating doesn’t seem to help Massa’s case now, 14 years later.
Hamilton didn't cheat in Singapore 2008 but the bottom line here is justice which Massa rightly points out, unfortunate for Hamilton like it or not he's been caught up in this situation even after 15 years.
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