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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > AccessPORT Tuning Discussion - hosted by COBB Calibration Team



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      01-12-2011, 01:56 PM   #1
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AccessPORT Tuning Discussion - hosted by COBB Calibration Team

Hi guys-

My name is Lance and I work for COBB Tuning as our R&D calibrator. I dabble in a lot of areas for COBB but my primary responsibility is overseeing our OTS mapping databases for the Subaru and BMW platforms. As such, once we had worked out access to the necessary tables and found elegant ways around some of the torque/power limiters, I was tasked with generating the Stage1 91 and 93 octane maps that are available for the N54 AccessPORT. Rob Irish and Tim Bailey (of COBB Tuning Surgeline) were both instrumental in this process as well.

The response has been overwhelming so far -- in a good way! Many great tuning questions have already come up; I am here to answer these to the best of my ability along with provide an "insider's look" into OEM ECU tuning for the N54 To get us going, I thought it'd be good to show some of the ignition timing tuning we've done. I have attached screen shots of the "factory" Ignition Timing (main) table and our "tuned" Stage1 93 octane mapping timing table. I made quite a few small changes during the tuning process that added up to this final result.

As you can see, we have complete control over ALL ignition timing, down to .5 degrees of resolution. Ignition timing can be advanced or retarded as far as the tuner desires. The X-axis for this table is the current Load (Actual) value. It is interesting to note the scaling used by BMW -- the factory load targets for the ECU are in the 130-140 range but they included resolution all of the way up to 180. Normally, the factory X-axis scaling is inadequate for airflow levels larger than stock (Subaru being a good example) and we have to rescale these axes almost immediately during the tuning process. We have the ability to do this on BMW but Stage1 power levels do not require it (yet!?). It's probably a fairly safe assumption to say that BMW has tested and run these ECU/engine configurations at a much higher power level than the final delivered product :-P From my experience, I would say that these cars come pretty well tuned from the factory for the stock power levels…and thankfully, VERY conservatively!

As I increased the amount of Load requested to begin raising horsepower, it became obvious that the factory timing table was a bit too aggressive, especially at higher loads. The ECU properly addressed it via timing correction on the noisy cylinder(s), but relying on a prompt response from the ECU during knock events is a dangerous tuning strategy. At factory power levels and below, the car was essentially happy and one of our goals for Stage1 maps is to leave as small of a footprint as is required for safe operation. With this knowledge, I then worked on reducing ignition timing as necessary through the problem areas while smoothing in some of the large jumps that exist in the OEM mapping without reinventing the unaffected areas of the table. In general, lowering ignition timing did not significantly neuter power levels but did effectively quiet the knock detection system, meaning the factory timing values are likely very close to -- or even slightly above -- MBT timing values. The final Stage1 93 table you see here was designed to provide a margin of safety when compared to BMW’s fairly aggressive factory strategy. MBT = minimum timing for best torque, for those who are curious. This is a topic I can expand upon for those who may not understand that particular tuning subject.

Hopefully this helps to explain timing things a bit Please let me know what questions you have and how I can be of assistance!

Thanks for your time and best regards,
Lance
R&D Calibrator

P.S. I use the term ECU as you guys use DME. We call it the ECU because, well…that’s what we’re used to around here Some call it soda, some call it pop!
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      01-12-2011, 02:01 PM   #2
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Thank you Lance! I've pointed a few members here with questions! Amazing work!
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      01-12-2011, 02:13 PM   #3
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Lance - THANK YOU for posting this. I'm sure the n54 folks are thrilled at this.............

any chance you can shed some light on when the N55 will become available?
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      01-12-2011, 02:38 PM   #4
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So essentially you dropped timing by 1-2 degrees in certain areas, even partial throttle "load".

Where does the average stage 1 car fall on the load chart?
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      01-12-2011, 02:49 PM   #5
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Also based on the results of many cars on here, it apears that most of these cars don't actually run in the 130 load range as you stated. It seems to bounch between 105 and 120. I am basing this off the timing values your provided.
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      01-12-2011, 02:59 PM   #6
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Thank you Cobb. I think this will help answer and quell many questions about the factory ECU and its ability to "autotune." Hopefully after the basic tables, you can maybe post some compensation tables to show how the ECU compensates for variations in atmospheric changes?

Would you be willing to share how the ECU calculates "Load?"

I believe this is the most important point to take away from your post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by COBB Tuning View Post
Hi guys-


As I increased the amount of Load requested to begin raising horsepower, it became obvious that the factory timing table was a bit too aggressive, especially at higher loads. The ECU properly addressed it via timing correction on the noisy cylinder(s), but relying on a prompt response from the ECU during knock events is a dangerous tuning strategy.
Constantly probing for more power by inducing knock and then backing off once it is found is not good for your bearings or ring lands. I will always chose a system that is tuned for MBT (minimum timing for best torque) given the parts installed on the car versus trying to "autotune" a parameter such as timing to squeeze out a bit more power.

So far, this looks pretty similar to the Subaru ECU architecture. Adding parts will increase VE and therefore load and eventually put you off the right side of the scale into no-man's land, correct?
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      01-12-2011, 03:15 PM   #7
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great info..i'm just wondering how many COBB guys are on this forum now Danny, Lance, Rob, who else?
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      01-12-2011, 03:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dzenno View Post
great info..i'm just wondering how many COBB guys are on this forum now Danny, Lance, Rob, who else?
Don't mean to take this OT, but I was wondering the same thing - and who's who. Could someone post a brief list of staff and what they do?
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      01-12-2011, 03:39 PM   #9
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Easy question, when 2007 support?
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      01-12-2011, 03:40 PM   #10
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how soon do you guys plan on supporting the n55 engine?
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      01-12-2011, 03:41 PM   #11
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So much for a thread with actual tuning discussions. Can this type of crap be posted in the other threads, you know the ones that are 20 plus pages already....filled with bullshit
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      01-12-2011, 03:45 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clap135 View Post
So much for a thread with actual tuning discussions. Can this type of crap be posted in the other threads, you know the ones that are 20 plus pages already....filled with bullshit
Sure, as soon as they actually answer the question with an answer related to the 2007.

They answered the N55 support question in another thread.

The only bullshit I see in this thread so far is your whining...




By the way, what he posted isn't something earth shattering that nobody knows about. We know the flashers modify the tables for timing etc...he just happen to give a bit more info. GIAC and others haven't, so that is something interesting I suppose for whatever reason???
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      01-12-2011, 04:04 PM   #13
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No kidding.

We need a sticky thread with people asking every two seconds when is cobb coming out for support on the 07 or the e55?

It is totally useless and annoying as @@@@!

Seriously people need to flipping stop this crap.
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      01-12-2011, 04:08 PM   #14
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i dont think its possible to stay on topic even once!
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      01-12-2011, 04:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techlogik View Post
Sure, as soon as they actually answer the question with an answer related to the 2007.
techlogik,

The information we posted in the FAQs is the best that we can offer right now.

When will there be support for XXX N54 equipped BMW's?
Here are the development priorities for us right now.
1. Continue to find ROMs for 2008-2011 N54 turbo engined cars and create maps for the 1, 3 and 5 series. This includes the xi and is. We are waiting for a ROM to be provided for the N54 equipped Z4 to see what efforts are required. The X6 is currently lowest on the priority list for N54 vehicle support.
2. Finish developing the serial based communications protocol to enable AccessPORT compatibility with 2007 model year 1, 3 and 5 series.
3. Stage2 maps for supported vehicles.
4. Finish development of AccessTUNER Pro and get this into the hands of professional tuners (end of 1Q11).
5. AccessTUNER Race end-user tuning software will be released after AccessTUNER Pro has stabilized.


As you can see, 2007 support is very high on our list of priorities. The forum members here have expressed a TON of interest in getting the AccessPORT out for 2007's and we have certainly taken notice. Rob is actively working on this right now.

Thanks,

Gary
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      01-12-2011, 04:12 PM   #16
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jeez again with this when 2007 support, when N55 support.... when 335is support ....
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      01-12-2011, 04:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COBB Tuning View Post
techlogik,

The information we posted in the FAQs is the best that we can offer right now.

When will there be support for XXX N54 equipped BMW's?
Here are the development priorities for us right now.
1. Continue to find ROMs for 2008-2011 N54 turbo engined cars and create maps for the 1, 3 and 5 series. This includes the xi and is. We are waiting for a ROM to be provided for the N54 equipped Z4 to see what efforts are required. The X6 is currently lowest on the priority list for N54 vehicle support.
2. Finish developing the serial based communications protocol to enable AccessPORT compatibility with 2007 model year 1, 3 and 5 series.
3. Stage2 maps for supported vehicles.
4. Finish development of AccessTUNER Pro and get this into the hands of professional tuners (end of 1Q11).
5. AccessTUNER Race end-user tuning software will be released after AccessTUNER Pro has stabilized.


As you can see, 2007 support is very high on our list of priorities. The forum members here have expressed a TON of interest in getting the AccessPORT out for 2007's and we have certainly taken notice. Rob is actively working on this right now.

Thanks,

Gary
So basically ATR is coming out after ATP, however there is no set ETA on ATR at this time. (Lot's of three-letter acronyms!) Looks like us heavily modified folk will be waiting on the sidelines even longer than I thought.
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      01-12-2011, 04:21 PM   #18
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Seriously mods need to erase the "when?" questions
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      01-12-2011, 04:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clap135 View Post
So essentially you dropped timing by 1-2 degrees in certain areas, even partial throttle "load".

Where does the average stage 1 car fall on the load chart?
Yes, timing has been adjusted or reduced through most of the "high boost/load" range as well as through the spool area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clap135 View Post
Also based on the results of many cars on here, it apears that most of these cars don't actually run in the 130 load range as you stated. It seems to bounch between 105 and 120. I am basing this off the timing values your provided.
The factory targets roughly 135; from the factory, the actual "requested" value can get knocked down when the ECU feels it is necessary It's entirely possible that if knock is induced over a long enough period that the ECU will change it's control/response strategy from "reduce timing in the noisy cylinders" to "reduce load requested to reduce cylinder pressures".

Regards,
Lance
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      01-12-2011, 04:23 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dzenno View Post
great info..i'm just wondering how many COBB guys are on this forum now Danny, Lance, Rob, who else?
Rob Irish - BMW ECU Guru in Austin, TX.
Lance Lucas - Lead BMW R&D Calibrator in Austin, TX.
Danny Heng - Marketing and Sales at the SoCal store.
Travis Geny - Online Relations and Marketing at the Surgeline store in Portland, OR.
Kevin Heist(myself) - I'm in Plano, TX and handle Marketing and Sales for the Plano store.
Gary Sheehan - Marketing Director.

Thanks!

Kevin

Last edited by COBB Tuning; 01-12-2011 at 04:30 PM..
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      01-12-2011, 04:25 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themyst View Post
So basically ATR is coming out after ATP, however there is no set ETA on ATR at this time. (Lot's of three-letter acronyms!) Looks like us heavily modified folk will be waiting on the sidelines even longer than I thought.
themyst,

AccessTUNER Race does tend to trail our AccessTUNER Pro releases so that the folks that already have expertise in our software can pound on it a bit and help us make sure that it is in the best possible state before it's in the hands of end-users.

Not having an ETA doesn't necessarily mean it's going to take an extremely long time. It just means we don't have confidence in announcing a date or date range given the number of prerequisites that have to go successfully.

Thanks,

Gary
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      01-12-2011, 04:26 PM   #22
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Well if the ecu, over time, reduces load due to repeated knock events, why would the lower loads have higher timing then the timing it was just knocking on.

In theory this makes no sesnse, one would think this the ecu would pull back load and drop timing, not pull back load and raise timing only to possibly knock again.

Last edited by Clap135; 01-12-2011 at 04:33 PM..
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