[Soravia]

I heard there is LCI vs Pre-LCI difference. Also on X3 3.0iS, N51, Z4 3.0iS and so on various versions.
I know reprogram is required and prefer self programming, I have a laptop dedicated for this.

And there are OE and aftermarket valves, new, used, rebuild kits.

Should I buy a used, or broken valve or without valve? New? Rebuild?
Thank you

[desertman123]

Buy brand new, used valves are unreliable and annoying.

[Soravia]

Aftermarket or OE? Any that is reliable? One on eBay says 2 years warranty, for $70-90 ranges

Anything I should do to make the valves not fall apart into the engine cylinders?

I saw someone selling just the intake with no valves. Good route to buy it and add in my own new valves? No wires needed?

[Rmtt]

Originally Posted by Soravia

Aftermarket or OE? Any that is reliable? One on eBay says 2 years warranty, for $70-90 ranges

Anything I should do to make the valves not fall apart into the engine cylinders?

I saw someone selling just the intake with no valves. Good route to buy it and add in my own new valves? No wires needed?

I bought a used intake with bad valves to get it cheap. Then replaced with new OEM Disa's from FCP that come with a lifetime warranty. Just remember to save the bolts from the old valves you pull out.

The wires should already be in the harness on your car waiting to be plugged in. Look on your current IM and you should see 2 of them sitting on top "clipped on" towards the front of IM with caps on them.

[johnmyster]

I harvested 80+ junkyard manifolds over the past 2.5 years. I finally stopped, as it has become rare to get good factory valves.

Circa 2007 the valves hit their latest revision, with metal shaft. The large part number ends in 114. The small is 538. Those three digits are stamped on the shell, on the edge opposite the connector IIRC. These later valves mostly fail due to oil getting past the seal and gumming up the motor. It slows down the motor and then they fail to fully open/close. Sometimes you'll find a good large valve, but for some reason the small fails first. It actuates at lower RPM, so maybe it's based number of cycles, or perhaps it gets greater oil exposure due to position. If you can find a later model one with low miles, you might be good. The year of manufacture is the first two numbers etched on the front of the valve. (IE, 2011 is 11.) For instance, there's a set of 2011 valves on ebay for $275.

Prior, there were two model numbers for large valves (537 and 929) and one for small (928). These valves primarily fail due to shaft/flap deterioration. I don't recommend them. These are the ones you see shaft/flap/seal rebuilds for. IMO, not worth the effort. Once the shaft gets loose, oil is also getting into the motor.

I tried some of the $80 ebay china valves. They worked, but with a different noise (and slower) than good BMW valves. The problem was that the connector didn't fully seat, so the locking tab didn't engage. I couldn't sell that to my customers. You might not mind the connector, in which case you may get some miles from them. The price sure is right.

Supposedly the Vaico is a better aftermarket alternative. I have no experience.

FCP Euro OEM is really the only dependable option, but you pay.

Both valves can be changed without pulling the manifold down the road if you have one give up. The small one is more of a pain, as you need to pull the throttle body (to get to the screws) and the alternator (to get it out.)

[bluewater328]

Originally Posted by johnmyster

I harvested 80+ junkyard manifolds over the past 2.5 years. I finally stopped, as it has become rare to get good factory valves.

Circa 2007 the valves hit their prior revision, with metal shaft. The large part number ends in 114. The small is 538. Those three digits are stamped on the shell, on the edge opposite the connector IIRC. These later valves mostly fail due to oil getting past the seal and gumming up the motor. It slows down the motor and then they fail to fully open/close. Sometimes you'll find a good large valve, but for some reason the small fails first. It actuates at lower RPM, so maybe it's based number of cycles, or perhaps it gets greater oil exposure due to position. If you can find a later model one with low miles, you might be good. The year of manufacture is the first two numbers etched on the front of the valve. (IE, 2011 is 11.) For instance, there's a set of 2011 valves on ebay for $275.

Prior, there were two model numbers for large valves (537 and 929) and one for small (928). These valves primarily fail due to shaft/flap deterioration. I don't recommend them. These are the ones you see shaft/flap/seal rebuilds for. IMO, not worth the effort. Once the shaft gets loose, oil is also getting into the motor.

I tried some of the $80 ebay china valves. They worked, but with a different noise (and slower) than good BMW valves. The problem was that the connector didn't fully seat, so the locking tab didn't engage. I couldn't sell that to my customers. You might not mind the connector, in which case you may get some miles from them. The price sure is right.

Supposedly the Vaico is a better aftermarket alternative. I have no experience.

FCP Euro OEM is really the only dependable option, but you pay.

Both valves can be changed without pulling the manifold down the road if you have one give up. The small one is more of a pain, as you need to pull the throttle body (to get to the screws) and the alternator (to get it out.)

Agree its totally hit or miss. There are good eBay ones out there, but I encountered a few with irregular plugs as johnmyster states. They work, but the clip wont engage. That must be from a bad batch going around as I contacted the seller and had it replaced with one that clipped in properly. VAICO was thought to be the best non-oem, but I saw a few threads that said they were just as susceptible to batch failure.

Before you put in the new manifold, test the DISAs out. You can do that via INPA in your car NOW before programming/install with the existing cabling thats latched onto the manifold. Then you know what you're dealing with. Might be best to throw in new DISAs regardless because they do go bad over time. Why deal with them later if you can just replace them now and be good for several years. That said, I never needed to pull the alternator for the small one, maybe just move the air filter, power steering reservoir and pull the manifold out halfway. Rather deal with those bolts than moving the belt. Large one is accessible by removing air filter and power steering reservoir relocation.

Good luck!

[smass]

Originally Posted by johnmyster

I harvested 80+ junkyard manifolds over the past 2.5 years. I finally stopped, as it has become rare to get good factory valves.

Circa 2007 the valves hit their latest revision, with metal shaft. The large part number ends in 114. The small is 538. Those three digits are stamped on the shell, on the edge opposite the connector IIRC. These later valves mostly fail due to oil getting past the seal and gumming up the motor. It slows down the motor and then they fail to fully open/close. Sometimes you'll find a good large valve, but for some reason the small fails first. It actuates at lower RPM, so maybe it's based number of cycles, or perhaps it gets greater oil exposure due to position. If you can find a later model one with low miles, you might be good. The year of manufacture is the first two numbers etched on the front of the valve. (IE, 2011 is 11.) For instance, there's a set of 2011 valves on ebay for $275.

Prior, there were two model numbers for large valves (537 and 929) and one for small (928). These valves primarily fail due to shaft/flap deterioration. I don't recommend them. These are the ones you see shaft/flap/seal rebuilds for. IMO, not worth the effort. Once the shaft gets loose, oil is also getting into the motor.

I tried some of the $80 ebay china valves. They worked, but with a different noise (and slower) than good BMW valves. The problem was that the connector didn't fully seat, so the locking tab didn't engage. I couldn't sell that to my customers. You might not mind the connector, in which case you may get some miles from them. The price sure is right.

Supposedly the Vaico is a better aftermarket alternative. I have no experience.

FCP Euro OEM is really the only dependable option, but you pay.

Both valves can be changed without pulling the manifold down the road if you have one give up. The small one is more of a pain, as you need to pull the throttle body (to get to the screws) and the alternator (to get it out.)

Great post. Thanks. What is your opinion on the best donor to search for? I see a lot of 2011 N51 328i being parted out.

[johnmyster]

Low miles is your goal if you want good valves. Anything N51 or N52 is worth looking at. X3, X5, 530, 528, 128, etc.

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by johnmyster

Low miles is your goal if you want good valves. Anything N51 or N52 is worth looking at. X3, X5, 530, 528, 128, etc.

Like under 60k? It seems these are mostly garbage by 100k. It seems if you’re going to spend the time doing this it’s just time to pony up the $6 bills and get new. No point in a performance mod if there’s no performance with broken valves.

Really appreciate you chiming in as you have so much experience!

[Volasko]

Originally Posted by johnmyster

I harvested 80+ junkyard manifolds over the past 2.5 years. I finally stopped, as it has become rare to get good factory valves.

Circa 2007 the valves hit their latest revision, with metal shaft. The large part number ends in 114. The small is 538. Those three digits are stamped on the shell, on the edge opposite the connector IIRC. These later valves mostly fail due to oil getting past the seal and gumming up the motor. It slows down the motor and then they fail to fully open/close. Sometimes you'll find a good large valve, but for some reason the small fails first. It actuates at lower RPM, so maybe it's based number of cycles, or perhaps it gets greater oil exposure due to position. If you can find a later model one with low miles, you might be good. The year of manufacture is the first two numbers etched on the front of the valve. (IE, 2011 is 11.) For instance, there's a set of 2011 valves on ebay for $275.

Prior, there were two model numbers for large valves (537 and 929) and one for small (928). These valves primarily fail due to shaft/flap deterioration. I don't recommend them. These are the ones you see shaft/flap/seal rebuilds for. IMO, not worth the effort. Once the shaft gets loose, oil is also getting into the motor.

I tried some of the $80 ebay china valves. They worked, but with a different noise (and slower) than good BMW valves. The problem was that the connector didn't fully seat, so the locking tab didn't engage. I couldn't sell that to my customers. You might not mind the connector, in which case you may get some miles from them. The price sure is right.

Supposedly the Vaico is a better aftermarket alternative. I have no experience.

FCP Euro OEM is really the only dependable option, but you pay.

Both valves can be changed without pulling the manifold down the road if you have one give up. The small one is more of a pain, as you need to pull the throttle body (to get to the screws) and the alternator (to get it out.)

I have no vested interest in this other than to give props to this post. Some real quality content here.

[850CSi]

Am I understanding correctly that the -114 and -538 revisions aren’t at risk for having parts fall into the intake/valves/cylinder?

[E92William]

Some people mistake the 114 being the latest revision valve for having a metal shaft. 114 valves are not equipped with a metal shaft from the factory, as a matter of fact no disa valve made for the 3 stage manifold did at all. Only metal option is the rebuild kits by Vanos BMW.

The 114 valve has a long fully plastic shaft unlike the 537 which is split with a metal top half and plastic bottom shaft. The 929 shafts are the same as the 114 but hollow and shorter. IMO the 537 valve is almost the best design but fairly it's equal to to the 114 when it comes to strength and reliability. Many valves that say 114 actually come with split metal shafts as they were interchangeable when new.

The 114 shaft being fully plastic can wear against the bearing surface at the top of the valve and break off. While it's plastic and the chances of damaging stuff are lower it can still damage a valve seat or something if it gets caught and it does happen from lack of lubrication.

Here is a 114 shaft with some noticeable wear to show it's a plastic unit

Also a picture of one of many 114 valves I've picked up for rebuilds that are a split shaft 537 design regardless of revision.

[bluewater328]

Originally Posted by E92William

Some people mistake the 114 being the latest revision valve for having a metal shaft. 114 valves are not equipped with a metal shaft from the factory, as a matter of fact no disa valve made for the 3 stage manifold did at all. Only metal option is the rebuild kits by Vanos BMW.

The 114 valve has a long fully plastic shaft unlike the 537 which is split with a metal top half and plastic bottom shaft. The 929 shafts are the same as the 114 but hollow and shorter. IMO the 537 valve is almost the best design but fairly it's equal to to the 114 when it comes to strength and reliability. Many valves that say 114 actually come with split metal shafts as they were interchangeable when new.

The 114 shaft being fully plastic can wear against the bearing surface at the top of the valve and break off. While it's plastic and the chances of damaging stuff are lower it can still damage a valve seat or something if it gets caught and it does happen from lack of lubrication.

Here is a 114 shaft with some noticeable wear to show it's a plastic unit

Also a picture of one of many 114 valves I've picked up for rebuilds that are a split shaft 537 design regardless of revision.

Hmm, Im fairly certain my new BMW 11617579114 (large DISA) had the metal shaft in it. I mean, I hesitate pull it just to confirm, but I'll see if I have some pics before I installed.

Pretty sure the small one still has a plastic shaft though.

[E92William]

Originally Posted by bluewater328

Hmm, Im fairly certain my new BMW 11617579114 (large DISA) had the metal shaft in it. I mean, I hesitate pull it just to confirm, but I'll see if I have some pics before I installed.

I would be very interested to see if it actually does. That would be an awesome find if it is. I haven't seen any one with a full metal shaft out of all the manifolds and valves I've pulled. Maybe it was like some 114s which are actually a split 537 shaft design with a different part number

[bluewater328]

Originally Posted by E92William

I would be very interested to see if it actually does. That would be an awesome find if it is. I haven't seen any one with a full metal shaft out of all the manifolds and valves I've pulled. Maybe it was like some 114s which are actually a split 537 shaft design with a different part number

Well, to be fair, that's not a pull, that's a new OE order this year for both DISAs. So maybe there's something to that. And maybe why the price is skyrocketing every 6 months. You're right though, the aftermarket ones have them -- my last one was aftermarket and had the metal shaft.

[E92William]

Maybe indeed the newest ones could have that shaft design. It would surprise me though if they did because that would mean bmw made an update for a part that is no longer being used in a production car. I've pulled valves from 2011 528s and they were 114 with plastic long shafts and that was one of the last cars to get the 3 stage manifold. If you can find some pics it would be interesting to see what it's made of

[aphael]

Here is a picture of mine. I bought these from FCPEuro about 2 months ago and they haven't given me any issues. They do look like they are using a metal shaft for the top half.

[E92William]

Originally Posted by aphael

Here is a picture of mine. I bought these from FCPEuro about 2 months ago and they haven't given me any issues. They do look like they are using a metal shaft for the top half.

What revision did yours say on the side? Like I said I've seen a lot of 114s that have the split shaft design.

Fitting enough I picked up this large valve today and it is a 114 revision. With the metal top shaft.

[AlexKoast]

I'm going to tell you right away go straight to BMW and avoid VAICO. I replaced both adjusters in mine and en route from Vancouver to LA I started to get codes with both DISAs failing. Just spend a little extra and get proper quality.

[E92William]

Here's the 114 I posted earlier opened now. As you can see it has the 537 style split shaft

[bluewater328]

I don't want to add fuel to the fire, but I did have an aftermarket 114 that had exactly what you're showing. So I'll leave that.

In many cases, the split shaft ones can be shaken enough to move the metal part up and out (to verify). Kinda scary in a way. I could see why they did it that way to save costs over producing two sizes...and the key to keeping the flaps from heading toward the runners is just the top half not breaking away.