[Dan Villa]

Thread revival.... any updates?

[Freelo]

Still no problems with SES light. Just took the car to dealer with Cobb uninstalled and had no issues.

Still sounds great! Here is a video with the car slightly warm, running 5 minutes.

There is definitely some smell, but probably much less than catless.

[Dan Villa]

Sounds real nice definitely on my list.

[Andrewe92]

i've just been hearing about wagner (fmic) seems like a great company who knows their stuff.. but about the downpipe I've been on the fence about which downpipe to get and also catted or catless to be honest I still haven't decided.. I'm an n55 xdrive so I have secondary cats, I'm not a huge fan of super loud and smelly setups but in my case I think i should be fine esp with the secondary cats. so I might just end up going catless.. mainly for the extra perfomance vs catted ... I would def pull the trigger if I found a dyno of this dp with decent gains

[Jsoboti]

Originally Posted by Andrewe92

i've just been hearing about wagner (fmic) seems like a great company who knows their stuff.. but about the downpipe I've been on the fence about which downpipe to get and also catted or catless to be honest I still haven't decided.. I'm an n55 xdrive so I have secondary cats, I'm not a huge fan of super loud and smelly setups but in my case I think i should be fine esp with the secondary cats. so I might just end up going catless.. mainly for the extra perfomance vs catted ... I would def pull the trigger if I found a dyno of this dp with decent gains

Are you running a tune? If you go catless and have a tune to take advantage of it you will
Absolutely feel big gains. Not only in power but in response and lag as well

[Andrewe92]

Originally Posted by Jsoboti

Are you running a tune? If you go catless and have a tune to take advantage of it you will
Absolutely feel big gains. Not only in power but in response and lag as well

yeah jb4 , and yeah I guess I'm just weighting out the pros and cons of catted vs catless .. if I were to go catted I would probably go wagner. but but now that bms doesn't make the downpipe anymore.. idk which to go with . thinking about berk technology

[Jsoboti]

Originally Posted by Andrewe92

yeah jb4 , and yeah I guess I'm just weighting out the pros and cons of catted vs catless .. if I were to go catted I would probably go wagner. but but now that bms doesn't make the downpipe anymore.. idk which to go with . thinking about berk technology

I'm running a VRSF and it's great. IMHO there's no reason to spend big money on a catless DP because it's basically just a hollow pipe. As long as the fit is good, there's little benefit from a cheap one to an expensive one. Lots of people around here are running the VRSF with no problems at all. Good luck

[Dan_Q]

I read this review when it was originally posted and finally took the plunge. This should be delivered within a week and I'll have it installed by the end of the month. Really looking fwd to changing from Cobb Stage 1+ to 2+ and seeing this difference.

[K.david]

oooh I'm getting hiped. getting a cobb v2 this weekend and can't wait to start down the road of modding the n55. exited the hear good things about a catted pipe. i love improving things but not at the cost of ruining the car. thanks for the right up.

[e92proper]

Originally Posted by Andrewe92

yeah jb4 , and yeah I guess I'm just weighting out the pros and cons of catted vs catless .. if I were to go catted I would probably go wagner. but but now that bms doesn't make the downpipe anymore.. idk which to go with . thinking about berk technology

I picked up a BMS dp used, haven't installed it yet, may actually be trading my car in, PM me if you're interested in it!!

[1&done]

In the market for DPs, I like the fact the Wagners they have the flex pipe. Is it a fact that are "made" in Germany and not just designed?

[Dan_Q]

Primarily based off this review I decided to also get one of these. I ordered it directly from Wagner and paid $667 including shipping from Germany. I had been running a Cobb Stage 1+ Sport tune since I’ve got a 7” FMIC and premium is only 91 oct in Colorado. So this cat allowed me to remap to 2+ Sport.

I did the install a week ago (5 hrs, it sucked). Details are posted in the Downpipe DIY post. Fitment wise it seemed okay. The cat must be a tiny bit shorter because the flange that bolts up to the midpipes was about ½”-3/4” short of where it needed to be. I was able to strain to get them together although now my exhaust tips are cocked a bit which I need to fix. After I completed the install I elected to continue running the car on the 1+ Sport tune just to make sure if I encountered a problem that I could isolate it to the cat instead of changing both the tune and the cat at the same time. I got a SES light within about 35 miles of driving. I contacted Cobb support and they confirmed that I would need to reflash to 2+ after installing a high flow cat since the downstream O2 sensor would not measure values in the range that the stock cat would produce. I then confirmed that my codes were for cat efficiency. So I believe you do need to run a tune with this cat in order to not eventually throw a SES light. I reflashed to 2+ and haven’t had a problem since.

Before the reflash I couldn’t tell any change in performance. After the reflash it is a pretty decent change in acceleration. For me it was well worth the cost and the car is a lot more fun to drive. At partial throttle it is similar to what 1+ felt like but when you go WOT there is no mistaking that you just picked up some serious torque. One thing I was surprised by is that there is a pretty major sound change. On cold start up the car is now very loud. It then settles down within about a minute to just be fairly loud. Not so bad that it is annoying me but if I had an aftermarket exhaust I bet it would be too much for me.

I was really hoping that I could run this without a tune since I would probably reflash to stock when going in for my annual emissions test. I don’t know if I will pass while running Stage 2+ or if I need to reflash to stock at the emissions station for the test. Hopefully someone will post their results before I need to do that. I believe the sniff portion of the test is not very hard to pass in Colorado and that just having a cat of some kind will likely result in a pass. Time will tell. I believe I will need to do emissions in March.

[MadToy]

Does your emissions testing require any ODBII check at all, or is it just the sniffer?

[e92proper]

Okay so now we are saying that a catted DP also trips the emissions code on n55? So what's the point of running catted now?

[Dan_Q]

Originally Posted by e92proper

Okay so now we are saying that a catted DP also trips the emissions code on n55? So what's the point of running catted now?

Because it is my hope that I will be able to reflash my car to stock or stage 1 and then pass my emissions test with it. The thought of having to actually reinstall my stock cat just to pass emissions then swap this back on annually would be a deal breaker for me. Plus I would like to retain a modicum of emissions friendliness.

On my last car it was the same deal except that no reflash was required since it just relaxed the allowable post cat O2 sensor readings. So I just showed up and passed with flying colors. I need to understand if the Cobb tune relaxes the acceptable O2 sensor readings or if it is setting the sensor into a not ready state. In Colorado, not ready = no pass.

[Dan Villa]

Wagner claims that without a tune it should not throw a cel. If this isn't true...what's the point of a catted downpipe???

[Freelo]

Dan sorry to hear about the problems with the code. I started the thread and would like to help out. I still have zero codes with this down pipe. Took my car to the dealer with the Cobb removed for vanos bolts and had no codes no issues.
Here are a few questions:
1. You are RWD right? I am RwD and have no idea how this works with xi
2. Are you sure that you installed the O2 sensors perfectly with no damage and no issues with the threads? It's very easy to have a problem with these sensors. They are fragile. My mechanic ripped the threads on one of mine and he is very experienced. Had to get a new sensor.
3. The code should indicate more on where the problem is. Do you have a professional grade code reader? I suggest you let an expert tuner shop take a look.
4. Did you contact Wagner for advice?

Hope you can resolve it. I will PM you separately.

[e92proper]

Originally Posted by Dan Villa

Wagner claims that without a tune it should not throw a cel. If this isn't true...what's the point of a catted downpipe???

Exactly my point here....so what I see here is that without a tune driving 35+ miles you will get a CEL with a Wagner DP. With a Wagner DP and no tune is there really a point for the DP?

Conclusion: makes no sense to go catted DP if you have to "trick" the 02 either way. Go catless, reap the benefits of good HP gains, and make a deal with your Indy to pull that shit if you have issues. That's what I am doing. Plus.....don't pay these stupid companies big bucks for essentially a pipe, get a basic DP and call it a day.

[Dan Villa]

Freelo

Would you be so kind to do another video but more in depth of this downpipe? I would really like to get it but no one really has vids of it and I want to keep stock exhaust and just add a catted dp like you did. Although I know I have a xdrive mine will sound slightly different.

Thanks
Dan

[Dan_Q]

Originally Posted by Freelo

Dan sorry to hear about the problems with the code. I started the thread and would like to help out. I still have zero codes with this down pipe. Took my car to the dealer with the Cobb removed for vanos bolts and had no codes no issues.
Here are a few questions:
1. You are RWD right? I am RwD and have no idea how this works with xi
2. Are you sure that you installed the O2 sensors perfectly with no damage and no issues with the threads? It's very easy to have a problem with these sensors. They are fragile. My mechanic ripped the threads on one of mine and he is very experienced. Had to get a new sensor.
3. The code should indicate more on where the problem is. Do you have a professional grade code reader? I suggest you let an expert tuner shop take a look.
4. Did you contact Wagner for advice?

Hope you can resolve it. I will PM you separately.

1. Yes my car is RWD.
2. I can't confirm that one of the O2 sensors didn't get damaged since I don't know how to test them. I would think if they were damaged that it would have been apparent immediately upon startup, not 2 days later. But that could be a wrong assumption.
3. I checked codes with my Cobb and got P0420 and P3106. It indicated they were both cat efficiency related then I searched this site and didn't come up with much more information.
4. I am going to reach out to them today. According to Cobb what I am experiencing is normal behavior for a high flow cat. i.e. it will trip a SES. I did not see any guarantee from Wagner that their HFC wouldn't trip a SES.

I tried PM'ing you but your inbox is full and wouldn't accept it. Have you driven for lengthy distances after installing your HFC without a tune and not gotten a SES?

Originally Posted by e92proper

Exactly my point here....so what I see here is that without a tune driving 35+ miles you will get a CEL with a Wagner DP. With a Wagner DP and no tune is there really a point for the DP?

Conclusion: makes no sense to go catted DP if you have to "trick" the 02 either way. Go catless, reap the benefits of good HP gains, and make a deal with your Indy to pull that shit if you have issues. That's what I am doing. Plus.....don't pay these stupid companies big bucks for essentially a pipe, get a basic DP and call it a day.

I'm not sure who is proposing using one of these without a tune. Regardless of if you have a DP or a HFC, the hp gains you get come from turning up the boost not from the hardware itself. In Colorado you need to pass an annual sniff test at the emissions center and with a DP you would fail without question. With a HFC you will typically pass assuming you are running a tune that does not set the O2 sensors into a permanent state of not ready. In my case that will come from reflashing my car in their parking lot and taking the test. A hell of a lot easier than removing the DP to install the stock cat, reflashing, taking the test then swapping it all back out afterwards.

This is all assuming my SES wasn't caused because I damaged an O2 sensor which is something I'm going to have to look into.

[MonkeyHermit]

Originally Posted by Dan_Q

...
3. I checked codes with my Cobb and got P0420 and P3106. It indicated they were both cat efficiency related then I searched this site and didn't come up with much more information.
...

Any update on your situation Dan_Q? I just recently got the Wagner DP installed and a few days later I got a CEL with the same P0420 and P3106 codes.

[Dan_Q]

Originally Posted by MonkeyHermit

Any update on your situation Dan_Q? I just recently got the Wagner DP installed and a few days later I got a CEL with the same P0420 and P3106 codes.

Well you know how it is... the problem isn't in my face anymore so I have slacked on doing anything to diagnose it. Your post prompted me to actually follow through on contacting Wagner though. I will let you know if they respond.

On my last car (Audi) I had a high flow cat and I can tell you that it would throw a CEL if you didn't have a tune loaded for it. But the tune did not put the O2 sensor in a permanent not ready state because I successfully passed emissions with both the high flow cat and the tune installed. So I presume the tune must have doctored the allowable range of post cat O2 sensor readings. It seems that at least the Cobb stage 2 tune does not take this approach and instead puts the sensor in a not ready state which of course will not pass. If it is indeed that there is no way of using the former approach, I may have to pursue getting one of those O2 sensor spacers or mini cats to solve the problem.

Let me know if you have any luck as well.