[Will_460cs]

Originally Posted by schriss

It would be amazing if I get anywhere close to 42mpg. I have high hopes Especially funny after coming from 2.2L which got me 31mpg on highway at best.
The last time after resetting the gauge and driving some time on motorway with forced desulphation I came back with 24mpg or so. I wonder if that forced desulphation (via INPA) is the reason for so bad mpg? (apart from NOX not working)
Still waiting for my mechanic to come back from vacation, 2 more weeks.
Car is grounded because of NOX and also crooked belt tensioner.
Good I didn't get rid of my old E46 2.2L straight six just yet.

Originally Posted by jirka330i

This is exactly a question I am trying to get answered by tuners...how do they reset/remap msd80 when they delete/ map out nox sensor

as far as I am aware the nox system consists of 2 major parts:

nox sensor (which reports to the msd80 through canbus in a binary code something which could sound "hallo...here is nox sensor, all my electrical connections are OK, heating of sensor head works, actual temperature in exhaust is XY Celsius and actual nox concentration is 5ppm..." and if this report is accepted by msd80 it allows all 3modes...)

nox catalyst (which is managed by msd80 on the basis of an algorithm which calculates catalyst cloging...which you can also see in inpa or ista... on the basis of either kms driven or fuel consumption...and then decides when to start regeneration if all the necessary conditions are in place...incl at least half of the tank and speed at least 110kmh);

the trap here is the fact that even with nox sensor delete and even with catalyst physically removed you still have the msd80 calculating the clogging and when it reaches a critical value (not sure if it is 3000mg or more...) it reports 30e9 error and stops stratified; one thing which I tested was an encoding of "virtually new" nox catalyst in ista...which than leads msd80 to reset clogging value...but it is always only part time solution....so I wonder how the tuners stop msd80 calculating catalyst clogging without an impact on all other linked processes and algorithms...

Originally Posted by schriss

It would be amazing if I get anywhere close to 42mpg. I have high hopes Especially funny after coming from 2.2L which got me 31mpg on highway at best.
The last time after resetting the gauge and driving some time on motorway with forced desulphation I came back with 24mpg or so. I wonder if that forced desulphation (via INPA) is the reason for so bad mpg? (apart from NOX not working)
Still waiting for my mechanic to come back from vacation, 2 more weeks.
Car is grounded because of NOX and also crooked belt tensioner.
Good I didn't get rid of my old E46 2.2L straight six just yet.

Every one want to know MPG!!! Here is some real world data from my car with nox delete, tune and normal driving style.. I am not hanging around but I'm not braking any records or taking flight!


Ok here is guide to operation based on mpg shown in the trip computer


< =25-26mpg on a 15 mile run , you car is sick and probably has injector issues , approx 320 mile per tank

26-30mpg = not using stratified mode approx 350-370 miles per tank

32-39.6 mpg car is using stratified mode target at 34.8 mpg on a a roads circa 60mpg with some town driving less an 2 miles of the 15 mile run.. approx 400-420 miles per tank

Normal tank usage 400-420, I always use shell 99 octane as it better for the injectors and gets a slight mpg improvement (which offsets cost) once fuel trims have adapted.

Long runs like motorways at fixed speed should be very high mpg.. 450mikes per tank


That's what I get with a nox delete on my daily commute..


Lastly calculated mpg will vary by around 5-8% less than the trip computer eg 33 mpg is actually 31 mpg...

Of course I also find the engine responds well to an Italian tune up.. this of course will effect MPG!!!

[jirka330i]

Originally Posted by Will_460cs

That's a china clone!! Beware god knows what it does!!! I wouldn't want to chance it spiking the ecu!!

If you want cheap buy a replacement 8 wire nox probe and reuse the existing electronics..

I do not think you can get a good and reliable nox probe on the market...ngk as the major player controls the distribution to the big boys like continental etc.
However, the replacement probe with 8 wires could be as good as the bosch probe in noxem...if it measures lambda like bosch and delivers an electric signal in the range similar to ngk probe, and will be able to communicate with continental unit then it would be a good deal I guess.
As for the sonic cleaning ...I went to guys who succesfully clean wideband probes but the operation did not revive my old probe...and I was also told that due to the fact that nox probes have rhodium inside which is ultra sensitive the success was a mission impossible...

[jirka330i]

Originally Posted by Will_460cs

Please don't use loctiite of any type!

Taking out the old sensors requires use of a small propane blow torch and lots of wd40 + plenty of patience !! as they are seized in place and corroded..

just make sure that you will be on the safe side....bimmerprofs noxem leaflet says:

Attention! Do not use aerosol type spray (brake cleaner, WD40 and similar) during replacement of the sensor! The fume of these sprays can damage the sensor! Remove the protective cap from the sensor directly before installation. If spray is previously used, dry the surface using compressed air for several minutes.

[Will_460cs]

Originally Posted by jirka330i

I do not think you can get a good and reliable nox probe on the market...ngk as the major player controls the distribution to the big boys like continental etc.
However, the replacement probe with 8 wires could be as good as the bosch probe in noxem...if it measures lambda like bosch and delivers an electric signal in the range similar to ngk probe, and will be able to communicate with continental unit then it would be a good deal I guess.
As for the sonic cleaning ...I went to guys who succesfully clean wideband probes but the operation did not revive my old probe...and I was also told that due to the fact that nox probes have rhodium inside which is ultra sensitive the success was a mission impossible...

Originally Posted by jirka330i

This is exactly a question I am trying to get answered by tuners...how do they reset/remap msd80 when they delete/ map out nox sensor

as far as I am aware the nox system consists of 2 major parts:

nox sensor (which reports to the msd80 through canbus in a binary code something which could sound "hallo...here is nox sensor, all my electrical connections are OK, heating of sensor head works, actual temperature in exhaust is XY Celsius and actual nox concentration is 5ppm..." and if this report is accepted by msd80 it allows all 3modes...)

nox catalyst (which is managed by msd80 on the basis of an algorithm which calculates catalyst cloging...which you can also see in inpa or ista... on the basis of either kms driven or fuel consumption...and then decides when to start regeneration if all the necessary conditions are in place...incl at least half of the tank and speed at least 110kmh);

the trap here is the fact that even with nox sensor delete and even with catalyst physically removed you still have the msd80 calculating the clogging and when it reaches a critical value (not sure if it is 3000mg or more...) it reports 30e9 error and stops stratified; one thing which I tested was an encoding of "virtually new" nox catalyst in ista...which than leads msd80 to reset clogging value...but it is always only part time solution....so I wonder how the tuners stop msd80 calculating catalyst clogging without an impact on all other linked processes and algorithms...

Originally Posted by schriss

It would be amazing if I get anywhere close to 42mpg. I have high hopes Especially funny after coming from 2.2L which got me 31mpg on highway at best.
The last time after resetting the gauge and driving some time on motorway with forced desulphation I came back with 24mpg or so. I wonder if that forced desulphation (via INPA) is the reason for so bad mpg? (apart from NOX not working)
Still waiting for my mechanic to come back from vacation, 2 more weeks.
Car is grounded because of NOX and also crooked belt tensioner.
Good I didn't get rid of my old E46 2.2L straight six just yet.

Originally Posted by jirka330i

I do not think you can get a good and reliable nox probe on the market...ngk as the major player controls the distribution to the big boys like continental etc.
However, the replacement probe with 8 wires could be as good as the bosch probe in noxem...if it measures lambda like bosch and delivers an electric signal in the range similar to ngk probe, and will be able to communicate with continental unit then it would be a good deal I guess.
As for the sonic cleaning ...I went to guys who succesfully clean wideband probes but the operation did not revive my old probe...and I was also told that due to the fact that nox probes have rhodium inside which is ultra sensitive the success was a mission impossible...

Ultra sonic will only be of benefit if it's carbon clogged... nox sensors die for a range of issues sadly but it worth a shot if you can do yourself

You can buy 8 wire probes from ngk,,, NOX sensor shop used to sell a kit which had a guarantee of comparability but I can't find there details any more...

[Will_460cs]

Originally Posted by jirka330i

just make sure that you will be on the safe side....bimmerprofs noxem leaflet says:

Attention! Do not use aerosol type spray (brake cleaner, WD40 and similar) during replacement of the sensor! The fume of these sprays can damage the sensor! Remove the protective cap from the sensor directly before installation. If spray is previously used, dry the surface using compressed air for several minutes.

Originally Posted by jirka330i

This is exactly a question I am trying to get answered by tuners...how do they reset/remap msd80 when they delete/ map out nox sensor

as far as I am aware the nox system consists of 2 major parts:

nox sensor (which reports to the msd80 through canbus in a binary code something which could sound "hallo...here is nox sensor, all my electrical connections are OK, heating of sensor head works, actual temperature in exhaust is XY Celsius and actual nox concentration is 5ppm..." and if this report is accepted by msd80 it allows all 3modes...)

nox catalyst (which is managed by msd80 on the basis of an algorithm which calculates catalyst cloging...which you can also see in inpa or ista... on the basis of either kms driven or fuel consumption...and then decides when to start regeneration if all the necessary conditions are in place...incl at least half of the tank and speed at least 110kmh);

the trap here is the fact that even with nox sensor delete and even with catalyst physically removed you still have the msd80 calculating the clogging and when it reaches a critical value (not sure if it is 3000mg or more...) it reports 30e9 error and stops stratified; one thing which I tested was an encoding of "virtually new" nox catalyst in ista...which than leads msd80 to reset clogging value...but it is always only part time solution....so I wonder how the tuners stop msd80 calculating catalyst clogging without an impact on all other linked processes and algorithms...

Originally Posted by schriss

It would be amazing if I get anywhere close to 42mpg. I have high hopes Especially funny after coming from 2.2L which got me 31mpg on highway at best.
The last time after resetting the gauge and driving some time on motorway with forced desulphation I came back with 24mpg or so. I wonder if that forced desulphation (via INPA) is the reason for so bad mpg? (apart from NOX not working)
Still waiting for my mechanic to come back from vacation, 2 more weeks.
Car is grounded because of NOX and also crooked belt tensioner.
Good I didn't get rid of my old E46 2.2L straight six just yet.

Originally Posted by jirka330i

I do not think you can get a good and reliable nox probe on the market...ngk as the major player controls the distribution to the big boys like continental etc.
However, the replacement probe with 8 wires could be as good as the bosch probe in noxem...if it measures lambda like bosch and delivers an electric signal in the range similar to ngk probe, and will be able to communicate with continental unit then it would be a good deal I guess.
As for the sonic cleaning ...I went to guys who succesfully clean wideband probes but the operation did not revive my old probe...and I was also told that due to the fact that nox probes have rhodium inside which is ultra sensitive the success was a mission impossible...

Originally Posted by jirka330i

just make sure that you will be on the safe side....bimmerprofs noxem leaflet says:

Attention! Do not use aerosol type spray (brake cleaner, WD40 and similar) during replacement of the sensor! The fume of these sprays can damage the sensor! Remove the protective cap from the sensor directly before installation. If spray is previously used, dry the surface using compressed air for several minutes.

My comments relate to removal not fitting hence my comments about dry fitting a new one!

You will be hard pressed to remove a 60k + miles sensor in an exhaust with out extreme heat to break corrosion and lubrication to remove!!

[jirka330i]

Originally Posted by Will_460cs

My comments relate to removal not fitting hence my comments about dry fitting a new one!

You will be hard pressed to remove a 60k sensor in an exhaust with extreme heat to break corrosion and lubrication to remove!!

my oem probe went out easily after 9 years/ 80k miles...on the central european salted roads ....perhaps because it was originally fitted with bmw antiseize according to TIS???

[schriss]

Originally Posted by jirka330i

my oem probe went out easily after 9 years/ 80k miles...on the central european salted roads ....perhaps because it was originally fitted with bmw antiseize according to TIS???

That's what I read too. I'll have a wrench and a larger rubber mallet hoping I will not have to go extreme with blow torches.

[Will_460cs]

Originally Posted by schriss

That's what I read too. I'll have a wrench and a larger rubber mallet hoping I will not have to go extreme with blow torches.

Originally Posted by jirka330i

This is exactly a question I am trying to get answered by tuners...how do they reset/remap msd80 when they delete/ map out nox sensor

as far as I am aware the nox system consists of 2 major parts:

nox sensor (which reports to the msd80 through canbus in a binary code something which could sound "hallo...here is nox sensor, all my electrical connections are OK, heating of sensor head works, actual temperature in exhaust is XY Celsius and actual nox concentration is 5ppm..." and if this report is accepted by msd80 it allows all 3modes...)

nox catalyst (which is managed by msd80 on the basis of an algorithm which calculates catalyst cloging...which you can also see in inpa or ista... on the basis of either kms driven or fuel consumption...and then decides when to start regeneration if all the necessary conditions are in place...incl at least half of the tank and speed at least 110kmh);

the trap here is the fact that even with nox sensor delete and even with catalyst physically removed you still have the msd80 calculating the clogging and when it reaches a critical value (not sure if it is 3000mg or more...) it reports 30e9 error and stops stratified; one thing which I tested was an encoding of "virtually new" nox catalyst in ista...which than leads msd80 to reset clogging value...but it is always only part time solution....so I wonder how the tuners stop msd80 calculating catalyst clogging without an impact on all other linked processes and algorithms...

Originally Posted by schriss

It would be amazing if I get anywhere close to 42mpg. I have high hopes Especially funny after coming from 2.2L which got me 31mpg on highway at best.
The last time after resetting the gauge and driving some time on motorway with forced desulphation I came back with 24mpg or so. I wonder if that forced desulphation (via INPA) is the reason for so bad mpg? (apart from NOX not working)
Still waiting for my mechanic to come back from vacation, 2 more weeks.
Car is grounded because of NOX and also crooked belt tensioner.
Good I didn't get rid of my old E46 2.2L straight six just yet.

Originally Posted by jirka330i

I do not think you can get a good and reliable nox probe on the market...ngk as the major player controls the distribution to the big boys like continental etc.
However, the replacement probe with 8 wires could be as good as the bosch probe in noxem...if it measures lambda like bosch and delivers an electric signal in the range similar to ngk probe, and will be able to communicate with continental unit then it would be a good deal I guess.
As for the sonic cleaning ...I went to guys who succesfully clean wideband probes but the operation did not revive my old probe...and I was also told that due to the fact that nox probes have rhodium inside which is ultra sensitive the success was a mission impossible...

Originally Posted by jirka330i

just make sure that you will be on the safe side....bimmerprofs noxem leaflet says:

Attention! Do not use aerosol type spray (brake cleaner, WD40 and similar) during replacement of the sensor! The fume of these sprays can damage the sensor! Remove the protective cap from the sensor directly before installation. If spray is previously used, dry the surface using compressed air for several minutes.

Originally Posted by schriss

That's what I read too. I'll have a wrench and a larger rubber mallet hoping I will not have to go extreme with blow torches.

Good luck!!! They usually have galvonically corroded together!! I've done 3 so far and they were all total pain in the Ass!!

[Will_460cs]

Originally Posted by jirka330i

my oem probe went out easily after 9 years/ 80k miles...on the central european salted roads ....perhaps because it was originally fitted with bmw antiseize according to TIS???

Originally Posted by jirka330i

This is exactly a question I am trying to get answered by tuners...how do they reset/remap msd80 when they delete/ map out nox sensor

as far as I am aware the nox system consists of 2 major parts:

nox sensor (which reports to the msd80 through canbus in a binary code something which could sound "hallo...here is nox sensor, all my electrical connections are OK, heating of sensor head works, actual temperature in exhaust is XY Celsius and actual nox concentration is 5ppm..." and if this report is accepted by msd80 it allows all 3modes...)

nox catalyst (which is managed by msd80 on the basis of an algorithm which calculates catalyst cloging...which you can also see in inpa or ista... on the basis of either kms driven or fuel consumption...and then decides when to start regeneration if all the necessary conditions are in place...incl at least half of the tank and speed at least 110kmh);

the trap here is the fact that even with nox sensor delete and even with catalyst physically removed you still have the msd80 calculating the clogging and when it reaches a critical value (not sure if it is 3000mg or more...) it reports 30e9 error and stops stratified; one thing which I tested was an encoding of "virtually new" nox catalyst in ista...which than leads msd80 to reset clogging value...but it is always only part time solution....so I wonder how the tuners stop msd80 calculating catalyst clogging without an impact on all other linked processes and algorithms...

Originally Posted by schriss

It would be amazing if I get anywhere close to 42mpg. I have high hopes Especially funny after coming from 2.2L which got me 31mpg on highway at best.
The last time after resetting the gauge and driving some time on motorway with forced desulphation I came back with 24mpg or so. I wonder if that forced desulphation (via INPA) is the reason for so bad mpg? (apart from NOX not working)
Still waiting for my mechanic to come back from vacation, 2 more weeks.
Car is grounded because of NOX and also crooked belt tensioner.
Good I didn't get rid of my old E46 2.2L straight six just yet.

Originally Posted by jirka330i

I do not think you can get a good and reliable nox probe on the market...ngk as the major player controls the distribution to the big boys like continental etc.
However, the replacement probe with 8 wires could be as good as the bosch probe in noxem...if it measures lambda like bosch and delivers an electric signal in the range similar to ngk probe, and will be able to communicate with continental unit then it would be a good deal I guess.
As for the sonic cleaning ...I went to guys who succesfully clean wideband probes but the operation did not revive my old probe...and I was also told that due to the fact that nox probes have rhodium inside which is ultra sensitive the success was a mission impossible...

Originally Posted by jirka330i

just make sure that you will be on the safe side....bimmerprofs noxem leaflet says:

Attention! Do not use aerosol type spray (brake cleaner, WD40 and similar) during replacement of the sensor! The fume of these sprays can damage the sensor! Remove the protective cap from the sensor directly before installation. If spray is previously used, dry the surface using compressed air for several minutes.

Originally Posted by schriss

That's what I read too. I'll have a wrench and a larger rubber mallet hoping I will not have to go extreme with blow torches.

Originally Posted by jirka330i

my oem probe went out easily after 9 years/ 80k miles...on the central european salted roads ....perhaps because it was originally fitted with bmw antiseize according to TIS???

New probes should be fitted dry, however like spark plugs mechanics/hone often fit with anti seize, the anti seize has to contain no silicone /ptfe as silicone hates sensors like lamda probes etc..

All the ones I have done have been original factory fitted never changed etc... all had corrosion on the threads... a small propane blow torch was the only way to break galvanic corrosion... I'd say this was more down to the acids in The exhaust system than salt corrosion as the sensor is out of the way.

[Will_460cs]

Originally Posted by schriss

In this case I would assume that ppm will be increasing slowly and that means nox cat becomes "dirty" and needs regen. After regen done, sensor should "see" less nox ppm than before.
If that's what happens, then simply coding a new nox cat will not help, because all of that nox ppm will just fly through the cat not neutralized and sensor will still see higher than usual nox ppm.
Which is not great because that's exactly what I did - coded new nox cat without replacing anything yet.

Originally Posted by jirka330i

This is exactly a question I am trying to get answered by tuners...how do they reset/remap msd80 when they delete/ map out nox sensor

as far as I am aware the nox system consists of 2 major parts:

nox sensor (which reports to the msd80 through canbus in a binary code something which could sound "hallo...here is nox sensor, all my electrical connections are OK, heating of sensor head works, actual temperature in exhaust is XY Celsius and actual nox concentration is 5ppm..." and if this report is accepted by msd80 it allows all 3modes...)

nox catalyst (which is managed by msd80 on the basis of an algorithm which calculates catalyst cloging...which you can also see in inpa or ista... on the basis of either kms driven or fuel consumption...and then decides when to start regeneration if all the necessary conditions are in place...incl at least half of the tank and speed at least 110kmh);

the trap here is the fact that even with nox sensor delete and even with catalyst physically removed you still have the msd80 calculating the clogging and when it reaches a critical value (not sure if it is 3000mg or more...) it reports 30e9 error and stops stratified; one thing which I tested was an encoding of "virtually new" nox catalyst in ista...which than leads msd80 to reset clogging value...but it is always only part time solution....so I wonder how the tuners stop msd80 calculating catalyst clogging without an impact on all other linked processes and algorithms...

Originally Posted by schriss

It would be amazing if I get anywhere close to 42mpg. I have high hopes Especially funny after coming from 2.2L which got me 31mpg on highway at best.
The last time after resetting the gauge and driving some time on motorway with forced desulphation I came back with 24mpg or so. I wonder if that forced desulphation (via INPA) is the reason for so bad mpg? (apart from NOX not working)
Still waiting for my mechanic to come back from vacation, 2 more weeks.
Car is grounded because of NOX and also crooked belt tensioner.
Good I didn't get rid of my old E46 2.2L straight six just yet.

Originally Posted by jirka330i

I do not think you can get a good and reliable nox probe on the market...ngk as the major player controls the distribution to the big boys like continental etc.
However, the replacement probe with 8 wires could be as good as the bosch probe in noxem...if it measures lambda like bosch and delivers an electric signal in the range similar to ngk probe, and will be able to communicate with continental unit then it would be a good deal I guess.
As for the sonic cleaning ...I went to guys who succesfully clean wideband probes but the operation did not revive my old probe...and I was also told that due to the fact that nox probes have rhodium inside which is ultra sensitive the success was a mission impossible...

Originally Posted by jirka330i

just make sure that you will be on the safe side....bimmerprofs noxem leaflet says:

Attention! Do not use aerosol type spray (brake cleaner, WD40 and similar) during replacement of the sensor! The fume of these sprays can damage the sensor! Remove the protective cap from the sensor directly before installation. If spray is previously used, dry the surface using compressed air for several minutes.

Originally Posted by schriss

That's what I read too. I'll have a wrench and a larger rubber mallet hoping I will not have to go extreme with blow torches.

Originally Posted by jirka330i

my oem probe went out easily after 9 years/ 80k miles...on the central european salted roads ....perhaps because it was originally fitted with bmw antiseize according to TIS???

Originally Posted by schriss

In this case I would assume that ppm will be increasing slowly and that means nox cat becomes "dirty" and needs regen. After regen done, sensor should "see" less nox ppm than before.
If that's what happens, then simply coding a new nox cat will not help, because all of that nox ppm will just fly through the cat not neutralized and sensor will still see higher than usual nox ppm.
Which is not great because that's exactly what I did - coded new nox cat without replacing anything yet.

There is a 200 mile ish period for adaptions and other elements to form a pattern that the ecu recognises... so reset of adaptation and /or coding in a new nox sensor will fool the ecu for a short period of time - I've done this myself you can only be sure after 500+ miles that things are working properly

[Will_460cs]

Originally Posted by jirka330i

Then it means that nox sensor really monitors efficiency of the cat and explains why new oem sensor with old nox cat show very wide range of ppm values; while noxem with only bosch wideband probe has rather restricted range of values because it does not measure actual nox concentartion...
Interesting experiment would be to connect bosch wideband probe to oem nox unit (where the nox head already died)...if the output signals of ngk nox probe and bosch wideband probe were similar it might work...but it would be too simple as I guess that bosch probe has a different output which is then "corrected" in the analogue part of nox unit...while digital parts (those reporting to ecu via canbus) are probably very same in oem nox and noxem...

Originally Posted by jirka330i

This is exactly a question I am trying to get answered by tuners...how do they reset/remap msd80 when they delete/ map out nox sensor

as far as I am aware the nox system consists of 2 major parts:

nox sensor (which reports to the msd80 through canbus in a binary code something which could sound "hallo...here is nox sensor, all my electrical connections are OK, heating of sensor head works, actual temperature in exhaust is XY Celsius and actual nox concentration is 5ppm..." and if this report is accepted by msd80 it allows all 3modes...)

nox catalyst (which is managed by msd80 on the basis of an algorithm which calculates catalyst cloging...which you can also see in inpa or ista... on the basis of either kms driven or fuel consumption...and then decides when to start regeneration if all the necessary conditions are in place...incl at least half of the tank and speed at least 110kmh);

the trap here is the fact that even with nox sensor delete and even with catalyst physically removed you still have the msd80 calculating the clogging and when it reaches a critical value (not sure if it is 3000mg or more...) it reports 30e9 error and stops stratified; one thing which I tested was an encoding of "virtually new" nox catalyst in ista...which than leads msd80 to reset clogging value...but it is always only part time solution....so I wonder how the tuners stop msd80 calculating catalyst clogging without an impact on all other linked processes and algorithms...

Originally Posted by schriss

It would be amazing if I get anywhere close to 42mpg. I have high hopes Especially funny after coming from 2.2L which got me 31mpg on highway at best.
The last time after resetting the gauge and driving some time on motorway with forced desulphation I came back with 24mpg or so. I wonder if that forced desulphation (via INPA) is the reason for so bad mpg? (apart from NOX not working)
Still waiting for my mechanic to come back from vacation, 2 more weeks.
Car is grounded because of NOX and also crooked belt tensioner.
Good I didn't get rid of my old E46 2.2L straight six just yet.

Originally Posted by jirka330i

I do not think you can get a good and reliable nox probe on the market...ngk as the major player controls the distribution to the big boys like continental etc.
However, the replacement probe with 8 wires could be as good as the bosch probe in noxem...if it measures lambda like bosch and delivers an electric signal in the range similar to ngk probe, and will be able to communicate with continental unit then it would be a good deal I guess.
As for the sonic cleaning ...I went to guys who succesfully clean wideband probes but the operation did not revive my old probe...and I was also told that due to the fact that nox probes have rhodium inside which is ultra sensitive the success was a mission impossible...

Originally Posted by jirka330i

just make sure that you will be on the safe side....bimmerprofs noxem leaflet says:

Attention! Do not use aerosol type spray (brake cleaner, WD40 and similar) during replacement of the sensor! The fume of these sprays can damage the sensor! Remove the protective cap from the sensor directly before installation. If spray is previously used, dry the surface using compressed air for several minutes.

Originally Posted by schriss

That's what I read too. I'll have a wrench and a larger rubber mallet hoping I will not have to go extreme with blow torches.

Originally Posted by jirka330i

my oem probe went out easily after 9 years/ 80k miles...on the central european salted roads ....perhaps because it was originally fitted with bmw antiseize according to TIS???

Originally Posted by schriss

In this case I would assume that ppm will be increasing slowly and that means nox cat becomes "dirty" and needs regen. After regen done, sensor should "see" less nox ppm than before.
If that's what happens, then simply coding a new nox cat will not help, because all of that nox ppm will just fly through the cat not neutralized and sensor will still see higher than usual nox ppm.
Which is not great because that's exactly what I did - coded new nox cat without replacing anything yet.

Originally Posted by jirka330i

Then it means that nox sensor really monitors efficiency of the cat and explains why new oem sensor with old nox cat show very wide range of ppm values; while noxem with only bosch wideband probe has rather restricted range of values because it does not measure actual nox concentartion...
Interesting experiment would be to connect bosch wideband probe to oem nox unit (where the nox head already died)...if the output signals of ngk nox probe and bosch wideband probe were similar it might work...but it would be too simple as I guess that bosch probe has a different output which is then "corrected" in the analogue part of nox unit...while digital parts (those reporting to ecu via canbus) are probably very same in oem nox and noxem...

A wide band probe and a nox sensor are completely different beasts you can't connect them up... your other assumptions are accurate, after coding a new nox cat/sensor there is a learning period of 200 ish miles that the ecu will operate in all 3 modes regardless of fault condition. Then it will error and only run homogenous.

[Will_460cs]

Originally Posted by jirka330i

definitely apply antiseize in the outside thread of the insert....but my problem was to get insert from the pipe even though loctite was applied..bosch sensor itself came out very easily (after couple of weeks in place...)

Originally Posted by jirka330i

This is exactly a question I am trying to get answered by tuners...how do they reset/remap msd80 when they delete/ map out nox sensor

as far as I am aware the nox system consists of 2 major parts:

nox sensor (which reports to the msd80 through canbus in a binary code something which could sound "hallo...here is nox sensor, all my electrical connections are OK, heating of sensor head works, actual temperature in exhaust is XY Celsius and actual nox concentration is 5ppm..." and if this report is accepted by msd80 it allows all 3modes...)

nox catalyst (which is managed by msd80 on the basis of an algorithm which calculates catalyst cloging...which you can also see in inpa or ista... on the basis of either kms driven or fuel consumption...and then decides when to start regeneration if all the necessary conditions are in place...incl at least half of the tank and speed at least 110kmh);

the trap here is the fact that even with nox sensor delete and even with catalyst physically removed you still have the msd80 calculating the clogging and when it reaches a critical value (not sure if it is 3000mg or more...) it reports 30e9 error and stops stratified; one thing which I tested was an encoding of "virtually new" nox catalyst in ista...which than leads msd80 to reset clogging value...but it is always only part time solution....so I wonder how the tuners stop msd80 calculating catalyst clogging without an impact on all other linked processes and algorithms...

Originally Posted by schriss

It would be amazing if I get anywhere close to 42mpg. I have high hopes Especially funny after coming from 2.2L which got me 31mpg on highway at best.
The last time after resetting the gauge and driving some time on motorway with forced desulphation I came back with 24mpg or so. I wonder if that forced desulphation (via INPA) is the reason for so bad mpg? (apart from NOX not working)
Still waiting for my mechanic to come back from vacation, 2 more weeks.
Car is grounded because of NOX and also crooked belt tensioner.
Good I didn't get rid of my old E46 2.2L straight six just yet.

Originally Posted by jirka330i

I do not think you can get a good and reliable nox probe on the market...ngk as the major player controls the distribution to the big boys like continental etc.
However, the replacement probe with 8 wires could be as good as the bosch probe in noxem...if it measures lambda like bosch and delivers an electric signal in the range similar to ngk probe, and will be able to communicate with continental unit then it would be a good deal I guess.
As for the sonic cleaning ...I went to guys who succesfully clean wideband probes but the operation did not revive my old probe...and I was also told that due to the fact that nox probes have rhodium inside which is ultra sensitive the success was a mission impossible...

Originally Posted by jirka330i

just make sure that you will be on the safe side....bimmerprofs noxem leaflet says:

Attention! Do not use aerosol type spray (brake cleaner, WD40 and similar) during replacement of the sensor! The fume of these sprays can damage the sensor! Remove the protective cap from the sensor directly before installation. If spray is previously used, dry the surface using compressed air for several minutes.

Originally Posted by schriss

That's what I read too. I'll have a wrench and a larger rubber mallet hoping I will not have to go extreme with blow torches.

Originally Posted by jirka330i

my oem probe went out easily after 9 years/ 80k miles...on the central european salted roads ....perhaps because it was originally fitted with bmw antiseize according to TIS???

Originally Posted by schriss

In this case I would assume that ppm will be increasing slowly and that means nox cat becomes "dirty" and needs regen. After regen done, sensor should "see" less nox ppm than before.
If that's what happens, then simply coding a new nox cat will not help, because all of that nox ppm will just fly through the cat not neutralized and sensor will still see higher than usual nox ppm.
Which is not great because that's exactly what I did - coded new nox cat without replacing anything yet.

Originally Posted by jirka330i

Then it means that nox sensor really monitors efficiency of the cat and explains why new oem sensor with old nox cat show very wide range of ppm values; while noxem with only bosch wideband probe has rather restricted range of values because it does not measure actual nox concentartion...
Interesting experiment would be to connect bosch wideband probe to oem nox unit (where the nox head already died)...if the output signals of ngk nox probe and bosch wideband probe were similar it might work...but it would be too simple as I guess that bosch probe has a different output which is then "corrected" in the analogue part of nox unit...while digital parts (those reporting to ecu via canbus) are probably very same in oem nox and noxem...

Originally Posted by jirka330i

definitely apply antiseize in the outside thread of the insert....but my problem was to get insert from the pipe even though loctite was applied..bosch sensor itself came out very easily (after couple of weeks in place...)

If you are going to antiseize the. Make sure it has no ptfe or silicone otherwise your sensor maybe damaged!!! I've buggered lamda probes this way many years ago... all new probes and spark plugs have a layer of nickel as a lubrication/ barrier /sacrificial layer to help with galvanic corrosion. The bmw antiseize they recomend is very specific as it doesn't have ptfe/silicone so is allot safer...



Here is great article of why you should be very careful on using silicone based products near sensors and in the combustion cycle.

https://www.scientificss.co.uk/produ...ad&fid=194

[Will_460cs]

Originally Posted by jirka330i

Well..I guess they are cheating themselves...I commented on it a in the post below https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...8#post25317828
The worst thing however is the questionable quality of noxem (I know at least another 2 other people here in Czech who had to return it as well) and even worse customer claim management. I wonder how they can claim lifetime warranty on noxem electronics...this is wild East...
Attached picture shows how it looks inside...when connection broke...

Originally Posted by jirka330i

Well..I guess they are cheating themselves...I commented on it a in the post below https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...8#post25317828
The worst thing however is the questionable quality of noxem (I know at least another 2 other people here in Czech who had to return it as well) and even worse customer claim management. I wonder how they can claim lifetime warranty on noxem electronics...this is wild East...
Attached picture shows how it looks inside...when connection broke...

That's not nice repair given the location of these things.. why didn't they just replace the the unit!!

[Will_460cs]

Originally Posted by Dormermike

Yeah my car only has 66k on it. I guess I could stand it the £420 for a genuine one. Yikes.

Originally Posted by Dormermike

Yeah my car only has 66k on it. I guess I could stand it the £420 for a genuine one. Yikes.

You can get a replacement 8 wire probe if you want to try a cheaper solution, however if you are paying for it to be fitted then I'd just get a genuine bmw one ...

[Will_460cs]

Originally Posted by schriss

This is probably the cheapest original thing to buy if someone needs a new sensor? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Original-...3/392268072699

Originally Posted by Dormermike

Yeah my car only has 66k on it. I guess I could stand it the £420 for a genuine one. Yikes.

Originally Posted by schriss

This is probably the cheapest original thing to buy if someone needs a new sensor? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Original-...3/392268072699

I'd be very careful at that price, I'd be scared it a china clone... there are so many on eBay right now across injectors spark plugs everything even oil..

[jirka330i]

Originally Posted by schriss

That's what I read too. I'll have a wrench and a larger rubber mallet hoping I will not have to go extreme with blow torches.

Good luck!!! I will have a big shot of jameson tonight praying for the revival of you nox system! Cheers!

[jirka330i]

Originally Posted by Will_460cs

A wide band probe and a nox sensor are completely different beasts you can't connect them up... your other assumptions are accurate, after coding a new nox cat/sensor there is a learning period of 200 ish miles that the ecu will operate in all 3 modes regardless of fault condition. Then it will error and only run homogenous.

yes...they are...I do realize...noxem still uses nothing more than wideband lambda sensor from bosch and satisfies the need of msd80 to get the proper set od binary data through the canbus; it is nothing else then an analogue electric signal from the probe in the exhaust adjusted by an analogue part of the noxem unit and converted into a set of binary data...and I kind of believe that the digital part ox noxem and oem unit are identical so the trick might be jsut about twisting the analogue signal...

[schriss]

Installed NOXEM today myself. No problems with any screws and my OEM NOX came out with just a wrench and my hand. No mallets, hammers or torches needed. I guess it depends on the climate and salt on the roads.

[schriss]

The old OEM NOX Sensor:

[Dormermike]

Does the sensor disconnect from the ECU? That looks like a plug.

I do wonder considering how sooty yours is if a clean would help.

Due to do mine soon so this thread and especially these pics is a big help

[schriss]

I tried, but no, on the right side it does not seem to disconnect easily, there is no push pins or anything typical in BMW plugs. Maybe it would come out if grabbed with pliers and pulled, OR maybe that entire black piece on the right side is one piece and somehow unclips from the inside.

I assume its so sooty because the previous owner was driving with NOX errors, so it was probably running very rich.

[jirka330i]

Originally Posted by Dormermike

Does the sensor disconnect from the ECU? That looks like a plug.

I do wonder considering how sooty yours is if a clean would help.

Due to do mine soon so this thread and especially these pics is a big help

I had mine less sooty but ultrasonic cleaning did not help...I was told that there is some rhodium and other strange parts (apparently kind of very sensitive layers...) in the probe and this mostly why the probe dies...but you can always try; if it does not help keep the nox unit ( I see that on the picture that schriss has Generation03...) and then you can, like myself, experiment with a connection to some other probes (the worst thing which can happen is that you kill the analogue part of nox unit...I hope...)