[Haidar14]

Hey guys, I got a 2007 Bmw 335i 6MT E92.
Located in Edmonton, weather got to -40 and car decided to not turn on. Cranks but no start. Weather has cleared up and is now in the positives, but still nothing. I have a few codes-
00A10A
00A0B2
00A0B4
Battery is good, power to starter. Fuel pump fuses are good, low pressure pump buzzes, but maybe moisture in the lines? One of those codes say Timing chall, I am scared if it is timing but was running amazing the day before lol. Please help guys, let me know if you need any more info!

[dpaul]

Originally Posted by Haidar14

Hey guys, I got a 2007 Bmw 335i 6MT E92.
Located in Edmonton, weather got to -40 and car decided to not turn on. Cranks but no start. Weather has cleared up and is now in the positives, but still nothing. I have a few codes-
00A10A
00A0B2
00A0B4
Battery is good, power to starter. Fuel pump fuses are good, low pressure pump buzzes, but maybe moisture in the lines? One of those codes say Timing chall, I am scared if it is timing but was running amazing the day before lol. Please help guys, let me know if you need any more info!

Nothing to do with ignition or valve timing as I presume you are thinking

You may have a problem with electrical power to the CAS module (A0B2).

The other errors could be secondary to the electrical power issue. A10A is "EWS4 timing response/challenge" issue reported by CAS; this is about theft control - the DME and CAS must communicate and exchange a code (SK or ISN) or, while the CAS will allow the starter to function, the DME won't provide fueling or ignition to let the engine start.

A0B4 is the CAS reporting an issue with the starter, basically timing out because you are cranking so much without starting.

Proper diagnosis of this problem will probably involve a serious learning curve for you. Even of the CAS were bad, you cannot just replace it - non-trivial programming is required to mate it with your DME. In any case, the problem may be just a failed relay, fuse (F4 and/or F51 in the junction box) or corroded wire or connector.

Have you tried just clearing the codes with INPA or whatever scan tool you have available?

Any other weird electrical issues like with windshield wipers, interior or exterior lights or the windows?

[Haidar14]

Originally Posted by dpaul

Nothing to do with ignition or valve timing as I presume you are thinking

You may have a problem with electrical power to the CAS module (A0B2).

The other errors could be secondary to the electrical power issue. A10A is "EWS4 timing response/challenge" issue reported by CAS; this is about theft control - the DME and CAS must communicate and exchange a code (SK or ISN) or, while the CAS will allow the starter to function, the DME won't provide fueling or ignition to let the engine start.

A0B4 is the CAS reporting an issue with the starter, basically timing out because you are cranking so much without starting.

Proper diagnosis of this problem will probably involve a serious learning curve for you. Even of the CAS were bad, you cannot just replace it - non-trivial programming is required to mate it with your DME. In any case, the problem may be just a failed relay, fuse (F4 and/or F51 in the junction box) or corroded wire or connector.

Have you tried just clearing the codes with INPA or whatever scan tool you have available?

Any other weird electrical issues like with windshield wipers, interior or exterior lights or the windows?

-
Hey, I have the Carly app, cleared it and tried to fire, and still nothing. No other electrical issues whatsoever. I am beyond lost right now and don’t know what to do, not really mechanically inclines, but really don’t want to dump a arm and a leg into it. Could it be a security problem? I’ve had it for 9 months now, and this is the first problem it’s given me, only when it got to the -40 is when it died. We currently have +1 weather so I am not sure what to do.. any other ideas?!

[jmwhitm]

Hey man, dpaul seems to know way more than me (disclaimer), but I had an issue like this about a year and a half ago that I diagnosed and fixed myself, so I thought I would chip in to see if it helps you...

Sooo my problem was similar that my car basically died too. Not weather related as it was May/June in Houston, Tx. However, I found that my battery got too low (the car would light up when I got in) but my alternator failed basically simultaneously and it couldn't deliver enough power to start. I tried cranking it too many times and it locked itself up. The steering wheel lock got stuck/engaged (I have an '07 e92 that had those, yours may not, so check that) and that set off some error code that the car computer picked up and consequentially locked everything up. To me, that sounds like you have a very similar situation.

I had to pull out the steering wheel column to access the lock, open it up, reset it and lube it up, reinstall the thing as well as replace my alternator and battery. You can do this in a full day.

That all wasn't as hard as it sounds, there are plenty of guides on this forum to do it, the tricky part was downloading INPA and reseting the computer (meaning clear the code) so it would officially unlock and I could start the car again. Been good ever since and that was about a year and a half ago.

So my suggestion is check your alternator first, if you have enough battery power to crank the car, then I would think you can access the hidden menu on your instrument cluster to check the voltage. It should be around 14.1 or so if I remember correctly. If it is in mid 13's or less then I would suggest a new alternator, but please back check me on that. Second, make sure your battery life and cold crank amps are good even if you think its fine. Third, see if you steering wheel can rotate or if it straight up is locked down pretty tight even when you try to start and crank the car.

Now, I can't remember where and how I downloaded INPA, but I know you can find it online and find a guide to figure out how to reset it, as I did.

For your comfort, before I bought this car about 4 years ago, all I could do was change a belt and oil. I've learned everything through forums, youtube, and having enough will power to just figure it out and do it, so I know you can too.

Let me know if this helps and works for you. Hope it does and that you can tackle it yourself. Won't be too expensive that way, but just have some patience and grace with yourself as you work through it!

Good luck man!

[dpaul]

Originally Posted by jmwhitm

Hey man, dpaul seems to know way more than me (disclaimer), but I had an issue like this about a year and a half ago that I diagnosed and fixed myself, so I thought I would chip in to see if it helps you...

Sooo my problem was similar that my car basically died too. Not weather related as it was May/June in Houston, Tx. However, I found that my battery got too low (the car would light up when I got in) but my alternator failed basically simultaneously and it couldn't deliver enough power to start. I tried cranking it too many times and it locked itself up. The steering wheel lock got stuck/engaged (I have an '07 e92 that had those, yours may not, so check that) and that set off some error code that the car computer picked up and consequentially locked everything up. To me, that sounds like you have a very similar situation.

I had to pull out the steering wheel column to access the lock, open it up, reset it and lube it up, reinstall the thing as well as replace my alternator and battery. You can do this in a full day.

That all wasn't as hard as it sounds, there are plenty of guides on this forum to do it, the tricky part was downloading INPA and reseting the computer (meaning clear the code) so it would officially unlock and I could start the car again. Been good ever since and that was about a year and a half ago.

So my suggestion is check your alternator first, if you have enough battery power to crank the car, then I would think you can access the hidden menu on your instrument cluster to check the voltage. It should be around 14.1 or so if I remember correctly. If it is in mid 13's or less then I would suggest a new alternator, but please back check me on that. Second, make sure your battery life and cold crank amps are good even if you think its fine. Third, see if you steering wheel can rotate or if it straight up is locked down pretty tight even when you try to start and crank the car.

Now, I can't remember where and how I downloaded INPA, but I know you can find it online and find a guide to figure out how to reset it, as I did.

For your comfort, before I bought this car about 4 years ago, all I could do was change a belt and oil. I've learned everything through forums, youtube, and having enough will power to just figure it out and do it, so I know you can too.

Let me know if this helps and works for you. Hope it does and that you can tackle it yourself. Won't be too expensive that way, but just have some patience and grace with yourself as you work through it!

Good luck man!

Well, the OP can't start his car - he cannot measure alternator output without having the engine running. Perhaps I am misreading your post but it sounds like you've come to the conclusion that the alternator is somehow involved in or needed for starting the engine. I can assure you that it is not. Lastly, the OP does not report any problem with the steering lock and he reports that is battery is "good"

OP, what is the basis for reporting the battery to be "good"? Also, now that you've cleared the codes, which are coming back?

[TunafishE93]

Are you saying Celsius or Fahrenheit? I know -40 doesnt matter either way but if its 1F than its still too cold... Electronics don't like cold (that cold) and -40 could of damaged something.. I would get car in a heated building before trying to troubleshoot and hopefully issue clears. But the temp might be the factor right now so you got to get rid of that first...

Yeah I know they are the same it was a typo.. But still very cold.. I found I get issues at below 10F so I don't use that car at those temps...

[dpaul]

Originally Posted by TunafishE93

Are you saying Celsius or Fahrenheit? I know -40 does matter either way but if its 1F than its still too cold... Electronics don't like cold and -40 could of damaged something.. I would get car in a heated building before trying to troubleshoot and hopefully issue clears. But the temp might be the factor right now so you got to get rid of that first...

Fun fact: -40 is the temperature at which Fahrenheit and Celsius scales are the same.

Plus, as the OP reported in his first post, it has already warmed up (all the way to +5oF) and the problem persists.

[TunafishE93]

He says +1 (which is not in the first post so we may be on a different tread) which if in F is not warmed up, yes compared to -40 it is but.. The variable that caused issue was temp.. Until this variable is took out, troubleshooting is going to be pointless.. I would say 40F would be acceptable just to be safe.. I would like it to be above freezing.

[dpaul]

Originally Posted by TunafishE93

He says +1 (which is not in the first post so we may be on a different tread) which if in F is not warmed up, yes compared to -40 it is but.. The variable that caused issue was temp.. Until this variable is took out, troubleshooting is going to be pointless.. I would say 40F would be acceptable just to be safe.. I would like it to be above freezing.

This is a fucking stupid argument but anyway, in the first post he says "weather has cleared up and is now in the positives". My phone told me it was +5F yesterday. If there's another thread where he says +1oF, I haven't seen it.

Keep in mind, the OP lives in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada - he could have meant Fahrenheit but Canadian weather forecasts are all in Celsius

In any case, automotive electronics do not magically fail in cold weather. They are all designed to operate in weather conditions experience outdoors here on planet earth. Correlation (discovery of a no start condition and a change in the weather) doesn't mean causation.

[TunafishE93]

You are wrong electronic do fail in cold weather.. As do car mechanics .. But to figure out which one has failed the temperature element has to be taken out.. I am not sure what is up your butt and you have to argue with me but move along.

[dpaul]

Originally Posted by TunafishE93

You are wrong electronic do fail in cold weather.. As do car mechanics .. But to figure out which one has failed the temperature element has to be taken out.. I am not sure what is up your butt and you have to argue with me but move along.

Fine - it's all yours. Knock yourself out

[BimmerG0d]

Hi, this happened to my car a few months ago, there’s a little 2 pin plug by the battery in the trunk, it’s the Intelligent battery sensor, I believe it’s a light blue color, unplug it and try to start her up. worked for me, the I plugged it back and it hasn't happened again.

Hope it works for you

[Haidar14]

Hey guys!
Thanks for all the reply’s.
Still fighting the car to get it to start. In the beginning I didn’t have a steering wheel icon on the dash, but after many attempts to start i did get the icon for it. Also a battery light. Everything else works. I tried majority of the fuses, relays and whatnot, and still no luck. Could it be a immobilizer issue? Just a thought. Also connect a new scanner called “fox well” I believe, and gave me nothing new. I checked fuel pressure. Seems to be normal on the high, but on low, at ignition on it sits at 5xxx hpa, and when cranking it goes down to 4xxxhpa, is that normal? Also I was using Celsius scale! Any other thoughts guys? I have already tried the IBS sensor, and still no luck. Also, sprayed a drop of starter fluid in the intake( I know it’s dangerous) but still nothing so does that cross out a fuel issue? Is there a “ignition” fuse? It would still start if only one coil/spark plug was bad? Correct me if I am wrong. You guys know 100X more then me. Thanks again and please suggest any ideas. Also forgot to mention, I do have a JB4 Tuner and intake, if that helps out at all..

[TunafishE93]

Try with the jb4 disconnected..

[Haidar14]

Originally Posted by TunafishE93

Try with the jb4 disconnected..

Alright, I’ll try it out tommorow morning, Ill keep you updated!

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Haidar14

...2007 Bmw 335i 6MT E92. [Please provide build Month/Year as electrical system changes effective 3/1/2007]... Cranks but no start... codes: A10A, A0B2, A0B4...was running amazing the day before...

Originally Posted by Haidar14

...In the beginning I didn’t have a steering wheel icon on the dash, but after many attempts to start i did get the icon for it. Also a battery light. Everything else works...Also, sprayed a drop of starter fluid in the intake( I know it’s dangerous) [NOT in Edmonton in Feb w/cold engine, unless YOU are smoking ] but still nothing so does that cross out a fuel issue? [NOT necessarily, but Fuel Pump is NOT a prime suspect here -- see below] Is there a “ignition” fuse? [F77, but that is powered by Terminal 87, which is dependent upon Terminal 15, or the IO1069 relay, which is in turn Activated by the CAS Module. All of your Fault Codes are related to CAS Module, so see explanation below ] It would still start if only one coil/spark plug was bad? [Correct]...

My SWAG, based upon your information provided so far is that the CAS Module is NOT Activating (sending 12V+ to) the Ignition Relay, AKA Terminal 15 or IO1069 on TIS circuit diagrams. CAS IS operating to some degree, or your Starter would NOT crank, so we need to do some tests.

Do you have a Multimeter & know how to do simple Voltage Tests if suggestions are provided WHAT & WHERE to test?

You have Foxwell & Carly? Will EITHER read Parameters in CAS Module, such as Relay (Klemmen) status? To properly diagnose the issue, you need to determine VOLTAGE at various "Terminals" or relay outputs with Ignition ON.

A simple DMM (Digital Multimeter) such as this $6 example from HFT can give you answers if you don't have INPA or something that will test just by connecting to the OBD II Socket:
https://www.harborfreight.com/7-func...ter-63759.html

If spraying ether into the air intake downstream of the air filter does NOT get any fire or sputter during Starter Cranking, it would appear that the Ignition coils are NOT powered, since you have NO DME fault code for bad Crank Sensor or Cam Sensor. On your model, the Coils get power from fuse F77. Check that fuse to make sure it is NOT blown, but I don't think the fuse is even powered due to LACK of CAS activation of the Ignition Relay (IO1069 in the TIS diagrams).

Of course, second issue could be that although primary coil circuit is powered, there is NO DME function to Pulse the coils with a ground signal due to lack of DME Relay function, which ALSO can cause NO Spark, so we'll test for that once proper operation of Ignition Relay is determined.

I. How the 2007 335i CAS & Ignition Coil System works:

Here is the TIS circuit for the Ignition coils:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...nition/x2xF19c

Note that fuse F77 powers the Ignition Coils. NOTE: the little "87" above the fuse symbol. THAT means fuse 87 is ONLY powered when Terminal 87 is active. Terminal 87 is turned on or made active when Terminal 15 or the "Ignition Relay" aka IO1069 is active/on. So first thing to check is if IO1069 or Ignition Relay is activating.

Here are the TIS Circuits for the CAS Module and the Junction Box for further reference in later tests after you do the tests suggested below and report results. CAS Circuit is for 2007 model with Build Date 3/1/2007 or LATER, so make sure you provide your ACTUAL Build Month/Year:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...system/uNYjfvY
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...box/1VnYK9i0zy

Actually, if you have a Steering Lock, I guess you have EARLY 2007, built BEFORE 3/1/2007, so the following is correct CAS circuit for 2007 model built < 3/2007:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...system/r14Nexa

If reading circuit diagrams is NOT your thing, don't worry, we'll walk you through it.

II. Suggested TESTS:

Put Remote Key in Insert Compartment. Does Radio now operate?
Press START button WITHOUT pressing Clutch. Does Instrument Cluster light up? Did you hear a click from fuse box area? There are at least TWO different relays that you might hear click -- I01068 which is the "Terminal 30g" relay, the large black removable relay on upper-right of Junction Box Fuse Panel and IO1069 which is the Ignition Relay (Terminal 15 relay) which is soldered into the Junction Box and NOT a removable relay on the panel. Does Climate Control Panel now light and can you manually change blower speed and hear the changes? Ignition/ Terminal 15 or IO1069 should NOW be Active, which means "Terminal 87" is also active, and coils should NOW be powered.

Using a multimeter, you can test (with Ignition ON) for 12V+ at the Fuse Panel Socket for F77 (pull fuse 77 out of socket and test socket for 12V+ in reference to Ground, Red meter probe on metal socket & Black meter probe touching metal chassis ground. Test BOTH fuse sockets for voltage. With fuse withdrawn, ONE should be "Hot" or have voltage (power supply from terminal 87/15) and the other (going from fuse to Coils) should NOT. Do you get 12V+ at ONE of the F77 sockets?

If the answer to ANY of those questions is NO, or if the test instructions are NOT understood, then don't proceed any further, and report results back to Forum.

George

[Haidar14]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

My SWAG, based upon your information provided so far is that the CAS Module is NOT Activating (sending 12V+ to) the Ignition Relay, AKA Terminal 15 or IO1069 on TIS circuit diagrams. CAS IS operating to some degree, or your Starter would NOT crank, so we need to do some tests.

Do you have a Multimeter & know how to do simple Voltage Tests if suggestions are provided WHAT & WHERE to test?

You have Foxwell & Carly? Will EITHER read Parameters in CAS Module, such as Relay (Klemmen) status? To properly diagnose the issue, you need to determine VOLTAGE at various "Terminals" or relay outputs with Ignition ON.

A simple DMM (Digital Multimeter) such as this $6 example from HFT can give you answers if you don't have INPA or something that will test just by connecting to the OBD II Socket:
https://www.harborfreight.com/7-func...ter-63759.html

If spraying ether into the air intake downstream of the air filter does NOT get any fire or sputter during Starter Cranking, it would appear that the Ignition coils are NOT powered, since you have NO DME fault code for bad Crank Sensor or Cam Sensor. On your model, the Coils get power from fuse F77. Check that fuse to make sure it is NOT blown, but I don't think the fuse is even powered due to LACK of CAS activation of the Ignition Relay (IO1069 in the TIS diagrams).

Of course, second issue could be that although primary coil circuit is powered, there is NO DME function to Pulse the coils with a ground signal due to lack of DME Relay function, which ALSO can cause NO Spark, so we'll test for that once proper operation of Ignition Relay is determined.

I. How the 2007 335i CAS & Ignition Coil System works:

Here is the TIS circuit for the Ignition coils:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...nition/x2xF19c

Note that fuse F77 powers the Ignition Coils. NOTE: the little "87" above the fuse symbol. THAT means fuse 87 is ONLY powered when Terminal 87 is active. Terminal 87 is turned on or made active when Terminal 15 or the "Ignition Relay" aka IO1069 is active/on. So first thing to check is if IO1069 or Ignition Relay is activating.

Here are the TIS Circuits for the CAS Module and the Junction Box for further reference in later tests after you do the tests suggested below and report results. CAS Circuit is for 2007 model with Build Date 3/1/2007 or LATER, so make sure you provide your ACTUAL Build Month/Year:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...system/uNYjfvY
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...box/1VnYK9i0zy

Actually, if you have a Steering Lock, I guess you have EARLY 2007, built BEFORE 3/1/2007, so the following is correct CAS circuit for 2007 model built < 3/2007:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...system/r14Nexa

If reading circuit diagrams is NOT your thing, don't worry, we'll walk you through it.

II. Suggested TESTS:

Put Remote Key in Insert Compartment. Does Radio now operate?
Press START button WITHOUT pressing Clutch. Does Instrument Cluster light up? Did you hear a click from fuse box area? There are at least TWO different relays that you might hear click -- I01068 which is the "Terminal 30g" relay, the large black removable relay on upper-right of Junction Box Fuse Panel and IO1069 which is the Ignition Relay (Terminal 15 relay) which is soldered into the Junction Box and NOT a removable relay on the panel. Does Climate Control Panel now light and can you manually change blower speed and hear the changes? Ignition/ Terminal 15 or IO1069 should NOW be Active, which means "Terminal 87" is also active, and coils should NOW be powered.

Using a multimeter, you can test (with Ignition ON) for 12V+ at the Fuse Panel Socket for F77 (pull fuse 77 out of socket and test socket for 12V+ in reference to Ground, Red meter probe on metal socket & Black meter probe touching metal chassis ground. Test BOTH fuse sockets for voltage. With fuse withdrawn, ONE should be "Hot" or have voltage (power supply from terminal 87/15) and the other (going from fuse to Coils) should NOT. Do you get 12V+ at ONE of the F77 sockets?

If the answer to ANY of those questions is NO, or if the test instructions are NOT understood, then don't proceed any further, and report results back to Forum.

George

I could barley read a book, looking at the wiring diagram and trying to understand it is impossible for me lol, I don’t know how you guys do it. I looked at the ignition fuses (in the ecu compartment), and a relay in the glove box, nothing happened. Literally everything in the car still works including climate control with fan speed changes, radio, windows, wipers, sunroof, etc. I also tried with the jb4 disconnected. Still nothing. I would have to wait for the multimeter testing, as I am no good with them, so waiting for a friend who knows somewhat, and can take a look for me. But any thing else possible that you guys think?

[Haidar14]

I took my ecu inside to let it warm up. Could it be it got to cold? Lol I'm trying anything haha
I am getting fuel, getting spark also.. help me out guys

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Haidar14

Is it possible for my DME ECU relay to be out? [Yes, there are a NUMBER of reasons for the DME Relay NOT operating to power the DME. The relay itself can be faulty, but more likely there is a loose, disconnected, or corroded connection in the wiring associated with that relay.] The baby blue one. It doesn't click or anything when I try to turn the car on.

What is the Build Date (Month/Year) of your 2007 335i E92? Significant wiring changes occurred DURING the 2007 model run, effective 3/1/2007. The DME Relay (K6300 on the circuit below) was moved from the E-box under the hood to the circuit board of the JB (Junction Box) Fuse box (soldered to the board) effective 3/1/2007, so you MAY be listening at the wrong place.

If you will provide your Build Date or last 7 characters of your VIN, we can provide you with specific things and PLACES to test.

George

[Haidar14]

Last 7 of vin
PV80106

[gbalthrop]

RealOEM.com says your vehicle has a build date of June, 2006, (please check your driver door sticker to confirm) so you have a DME relay in the E-box at the location shown in the first link, with a connector/socket that looks like the 2nd link:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...00606/H2vsi4L7
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...00606/CT86fHie

According to RealOEM.com, this is what the DME Relay looks like (sky blue as you suggested ;-), and it's part# is 61366915327. Here are RealOEM.com part pages & getbmwpart.com page:
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=61_3934
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/par...&q=61366915327
https://www.getbmwparts.com/oem-part...ue-61366915327

I would suggest pulling the relay and bench-testing it to see if the "failure to click" when ignition turned on is due to wiring fault or the relay itself. If you apply 12V+ to Pin #30 of relay, and Ground to Pin #85, the electromagnet of the relay should activate and click the contacts (at which point you would have 12V+ at pin 87).

Please let us know what you find,
George

[Haidar14]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

RealOEM.com says your vehicle has a build date of June, 2006, (please check your driver door sticker to confirm) so you have a DME relay in the E-box at the location shown in the first link, with a connector/socket that looks like the 2nd link:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...00606/H2vsi4L7
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...00606/CT86fHie

According to RealOEM.com, this is what the DME Relay looks like (sky blue as you suggested ;-), and it's part# is 61366915327. Here are RealOEM.com part pages & getbmwpart.com page:
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=61_3934
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/par...;q=61366915327
https://www.getbmwparts.com/oem-part...ue-61366915327

I would suggest pulling the relay and bench-testing it to see if the "failure to click" when ignition turned on is due to wiring fault or the relay itself. If you apply 12V+ to Pin #30 of relay, and Ground to Pin #85, the electromagnet of the relay should activate and click the contacts (at which point you would have 12V+ at pin 87).

Please let us know what you find,
George

I just tried, relay works just fine. Anything else?