[Archerbald]

Hi Guys. New to BMW, and to this community. Loving the read so far, well informative. First post follows:

Tuning question regarding the E90 330i with Auto trans-

The Q.
Does the standard engine management strategy use input from the MAF during WOT?

Always loved ITBs. Had no idea about the n52 valve system till now, 9 month after purchase. So..

I envisage the following scenario-
A large custom intake plenum encloses the 6 intake runners.
The runner length may be fixed or infinitely (practically) varied by way of stepper motor, or staged, depending on ease of control options.
The plenum is supplied air via the OE n52 throttle body during all conditions except for WOT and essentially follows the standard tune. In the event of WOT, a large butterfly (or plurality of) are actuated via solenoid, from closed to open, minimising intake vacuum (it is at this stage I was hoping that the EMS ignored MAF input, as obvious the input would represent a minor percentage of total AF).

That's is in a nut. I have sketches, method of fabrication, installation and mechanicals outlined at this stage. The WOT TBs I think will be best configured opposite and parallel to the runners, along the side of the plenum facing up and covered by rectangular panel filter. The filter may form the external visual element of the plenum (TBs and solenoids, runner steppers and all vacuum ancillaries to terminate and mount inside the plenum, separated by partition.

Thoughts? Most likely a waste of time but I can't help my thought.

[Torgus]

I can't comment on tune but it's going to be a TON of work for small gains. You don't have options for cams. Going all out on an N52 NA build is not worth the bang for your buck.

If you really want more power FI is the only solution.

I think even if you got it all up and running correctly the gains would be minimal. Trying not to be a debbie downer here bud.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by Archerbald

Hi Guys. New to BMW, and to this community. Loving the read so far, well informative. First post follows:

Tuning question regarding the E90 330i with Auto trans-

The Q.
Does the standard engine management strategy use input from the MAF during WOT?

Always loved ITBs. Had no idea about the n52 valve system till now, 9 month after purchase. So..

I envisage the following scenario-
A large custom intake plenum encloses the 6 intake runners.
The runner length may be fixed or infinitely (practically) varied by way of stepper motor, or staged, depending on ease of control options.
The plenum is supplied air via the OE n52 throttle body during all conditions except for WOT and essentially follows the standard tune. In the event of WOT, a large butterfly (or plurality of) are actuated via solenoid, from closed to open, minimising intake vacuum (it is at this stage I was hoping that the EMS ignored MAF input, as obvious the input would represent a minor percentage of total AF).

That's is in a nut. I have sketches, method of fabrication, installation and mechanicals outlined at this stage. The WOT TBs I think will be best configured opposite and parallel to the runners, along the side of the plenum facing up and covered by rectangular panel filter. The filter may form the external visual element of the plenum (TBs and solenoids, runner steppers and all vacuum ancillaries to terminate and mount inside the plenum, separated by partition.

Thoughts? Most likely a waste of time but I can't help my thought.

Open manifold was worth 260whp on a stock internal car - with cams of some sort, 280whp+ isn't unreasonable. But I do believe the you can run the car without a MAF (in fact, hassmaschine has a OEM tune that does just that) and run on a intake temp sensor and MAP

You don't NEED TBs, but you could run with them as a fail safe, and use the DISA switch and algorithm to run the runner length.

[mrnuke]

Originally Posted by Torgus

I can't comment on tune but it's going to be a TON of work for small gains. You don't have options for cams. Going all out on an N52 NA build is not worth the bang for your buck.

If you really want more power FI is the only solution.

I think even if you got it all up and running correctly the gains would be minimal. Trying not to be a debbie downer here bud.

Coming from the resident n54 driver....

In all seriousness, he is right. It is expensive and there is a lot of uncharted territory with the n52. A few members here and BPC are doing great things to continue to advance it and I myself when I finally have some free time and get the spare head also want to tinker to see if we can continue the development of aftermarket parts or mods.

[Archerbald]

Thanks for the replies so far lads.

I realise the 330 will never be a 335, but thats not the point. The point is, I need to make stuff, and I want to hear the n52. The end goal is a set up that sounds mint, delivers good gains, can be tuned easily and is cost effective.

It does sound like a lot of work, but that's my idea of fun so if there are gains to be had the effort won't be in vain. I have access to tooling and and materials, and a 2nd hand 325 IM can be had for cheap, so I am itching to move forward.

I would like to get to 3D modeling the plenum, but I don't want to waste my time, so is there a tuner out there who could answer this definitely:

Given the platform is e90 330i;

The mods- remove intake system between the air box and the cylinder head.
Fit conventional IM (variable length runners considered at stage 2) utilising OE MAF and TB.

Q. Can the set up be easily tuned so that, DISA is deleted (to start with) and during WOT, the input from the MAF is not used?

If this can be easily done, 3D modeling begins.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by mrnuke

Coming from the resident n54 driver....

You guys know I have a special place in my heart for the n52. It does what it does very very well. It is on orders of magnitude more reliable than the n54 or s65 engines and gets better mpg. I should have bought another n52 vs. My m57s fwiw.

That being said if you want the best NA engine in this platform that is the s65. The best FI engine the n54. The most reliable engine the n52. It's a good engine. I had one and liked it.

I just dont want the OP to go down the road and try and make the n52 something it is not.

I have said it before and I will say it again. Had the platform not had the n54 and s65 as both available options the n52 would have much more aftermarket development. The problem is both exist.

OP: I would contact BPC with your ideas as they are probably the only ones going to tune it. I could be wrong. FWIW I hope the OP goes through and does this. Be neat to see running!

[Archerbald]

Originally Posted by Torgus

You guys know I have a special place in my heart for the n52. It does what it does very very well. It is on orders of magnitude more reliable than the n54 or s65 engines and gets better mpg. I should have bought another n52 vs. My m57s fwiw.

That being said if you want the best NA engine in this platform that is the s65. The best FI engine the n54. The most reliable engine the n52. It's a good engine. I had one and liked it.

I just dont want the OP to go down the road and try and make the n52 something it is not.

I have said it before and I will say it again. Had the platform not had the n54 and s65 as both available options the n52 would have much more aftermarket development. The problem is both exist.

OP: I would contact BPC with your ideas as they are probably the only ones going to tune it. I could be wrong. FWIW I hope the OP goes through and does this. Be neat to see running!

Thanks for the advise.

I have send BPC an email summarising the plan. If their feedback is positive, I'll post progress pics of the modeling.

[CobraMarty]

There are several manifolds already available for the N52.

-Stock 1IM- long fixed runner (about a 2.5 stage of the 3IM)
-3IM- variable length runner, long-mid-short, adds a bit to low and mid range and upper rpm
-N54- short fixed runner, lost some low end torque, picks up power and rpm after 7000
-Chinese N54 fabricated short runner
-Chinese N54 fabricated mid runner with plenum and front mount TB location

Throttle bodies-single (bigger adds a few hp on top end)
-Stock 76mm
-N54 79mm
-Riot Bored stock TB 79.5-80mm

You are talking ITB with a common plenum. IDK if there is much there to be gained. I would look elsewhere.

[yupetc]

Is the N54 throttle body a direct bolt on and plug-n-play to our N52 platform?

[Archerbald]

I didn't realise n54 IM was a direct fit. This opens options. Have any of the mentioned n54 IMs been installed and tuned that you know of?

Original plan was ITBs, common plenum. Originally though, I had no idea that the n52 can go without a throttle altogether- mind blown. So I'm not sure what this set up is called, but the idea is individual trumpet runners, common plenum.

I also just now found out that my Australian delivered 330i doesn't have a MAF sensor at all. This sounds promising... currently checking to see if tunes are available.

[Biginboca]

Originally Posted by Archerbald

Have any of the mentioned n54 IMs been installed and tuned that you know of?

Yes, there are a few n52 running n54 manifolds. All of us have BPC tuning as far as I know and they now offer this tuning option right on their website.

I am the only e92 I know of with n54 mani, but there are also a couple 128’s running them I believe. There’s a thread on it here with a bunch of dynos should be easy to search out.

Edit: here’s the one I started there are others...

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1486800

[hassmaschine]

I have been thinking about this exact same thing for like 5 years now!

Yes, Torgus is an N54 troll (but we love him anyway)

No, you don't need a MAF or a throttle on the N52. I have based many tunes on the no-MAF factory version and IMO, it's awesome. I have even solved the issues with the no-MAF tunes and headers (so far so good anyway).

No, you don't really want to run an N52 without any throttle at all. Not unless you want the car to go uncontrollably WOT if the eccentric shaft sensor fails. The throttle is more of a backup than anything.

Yes, you could run trumpets or ITBs. The only difference is ITBs give you the backup in case of the eccentric shaft failing. S54 are pretty close, although it needs an adapter plate and the throttles are a little too big. Them being too big isn't that big of a deal IMO - you could limit the max opening at WOT to maximize intake velocity, which the stock S54 already does.

The N54 manifold does work, but it's more like it just happens to fit, costs nothing, and provides a benefit at high RPM - it's not at all like it is optimized for the N52 to provide a good broad powerband without sacrificing low end torque. For that you will need to do a bit of work.

There's plenty of potential in this engine, hell most of the "easy" mods give way bigger gains than bolt-ons have on past BMW engines - but of course you can have 500hp (and the powerband of a diesel truck, yay!) with an N54, so you should do that...

[Archerbald]

How to do quotes in threads?

Hassmaschine! Ticking boxes Mate!!
You have done this tune before= it can be done again, and that's what I needed to hear. It will be built🍺 but safety first! TB stays.

Are the n54 And n52 ports the same?

A chopped Chinese aluminium after market IM would make an ideal base in that case, with a blank flange tig welded to the runners, tapped to mount the built plenum. And anodised black.

Run an n54 TB off the front of the plenum and adapt the the OE air box. Easy.

Mount a generic 100mm TB towards the back, feeding an integrated panel filter inside the plenum, and wire to slam open at WOT. Maybe duct the TB to the plastic cowl below the AC filters- direct the NA acoustics straight toward the cabin😀

Make a vac formed, carbon/foam/carbon cover for the plenum.

I'm off to scribble. Gotta get this done before I replace the valve cover and gasket... may as well fit MILVS at the same time.

[aznbo187]

Has anyone tried an aftermarket front-facing N54 manifold?

Since there has been some gains to be seen from stock N54 manifolds that are downward facing, what about a higher capacity, front-facing manifold that removes one more bend? Seeing how aftermarket manifolds are around $500-600, it may almost be worth trying it without having to develop a custom prototype to test this out vs a stock n54 manifold.