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      09-11-2020, 02:57 PM   #1
saul09e90
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2009 BMW 328i - Starter Electric Issue

hello forum members.

My 328i starter was not cranking so I did some research, did some troubleshooting however hit a dead end. I tested the white cable that runs from the harness box to the starter then put the key on the ignition and the cable remains live whe is supposed to dont have any current when the key is off the ignition and not pressed. I slso probe with a long screw driver touching the cooper terminal on the starter and is always on same test with and without the key on the ignition.

There is good voltage on the battery 12v, I am able to shoft from parking to neutral able to move the steering wheel everything work instruments, lights, radio, AC fan ect.

I changed the black relay EWS CAS in the fuse box (glove compartment) that controls the CAS, I tried both keys with new batteries and nothing. The old and new CAS relays were getting kind of hot so I am having concerns of being something worst.

The car was working perfectly fine

Anyone that could guide me on the right direction will be great.
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      09-11-2020, 03:08 PM   #2
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Here is the schematic diagram was following.
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      09-11-2020, 05:08 PM   #3
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Does your 2009 328i have AT (Automatic Transmission) or MT?
If by any chance you have INPA or ISTA, let us know, as that makes testing "No-Crank" issues a LOT easier.

So we can all be on the SAME PAGE as far as the wiring diagram, HERE is the TIS wiring diagram for Starter Motor Solenoid (M6510a) as Activated by the CAS Module:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...system/uXuCNh9

Note that the CAS Module Activates BOTH the "Terminal 30G" Relay (IO1068) AND the Terminal 15 Relay (IO1069). That large Black relay on the right side of the JB Fuse panel is the Terminal 30G (Accessory) relay. It is activated BY CAS, and is NOT a power supply to CAS, so if ALL car electrics such as A/C Blower, function when ignition switched ON and Instrument Cluster lights, there is NO issue with the relays.

The part of the Schematic/diagram which is necessary to understand for testing purposes is the wire from Pin #22 of Connector X13376 that runs to the Starter Solenoid (M6510a) via the Connectors X6011 & X60531(?), both of which are believed to be in the E-box. I say "believed to be" as there appears to be some mix-up with X60531, as I can never find an "Installation Location" for that connector. Here is the Installation Location for X6011, and that diagram ALSO shows a connector "X60551". Whether one of those two numbers is a mis-print, I have NO idea.
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e90-328i-lim/SL92ADs

What DOES appear clear is that you SHOULD be able to test for 12V+ at Pin #1 of Connector X6011 when the START Button is pressed with foot on Brake/Clutch. IF you get 12V+ there ONLY when START is pressed, then the CAS Module, "Terminal 50", is sending voltage to the Starter Solenoid.

Presumably THAT is what you were testing with your test light? Compare the information above to your E-box wiring to make sure you have identified the correct Connector/wire (X6011/1), and let us know if you get 12V+ there ONLY when START pressed with foot on Brake/Clutch. Also let us know if there is ANY "click", either single, or "Ratchet-like", from the Starter Solenoid when START is pressed.

If you have 12V+ (lighted test lamp) at X6011/1, but NO Starter Function, try attaching a Jumper Cable as a "Supplemental Ground Strap". Connect one end of jumper cable to "Hex-pin" Ground Stud on Left Wing under hood, and other end of cable to good metal on engine head/block. Try Starter Cranking again. If NOW cranks, your ground strap under car near starter is bad.

George

Last edited by gbalthrop; 09-11-2020 at 05:14 PM..
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      09-11-2020, 08:24 PM   #4
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Is a Automatic Transmission. Thanks for the info most helpful I will follow your advise and keep you posted.
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      09-11-2020, 11:38 PM   #5
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Your starter may have shit the bed. This happened with my 328i a few years ago. The car was working great before I drove it on ramps to give the wheel well a scrub. When I was done the car would not crank. What I did then to confirm the faulty starter was to lightly tap the housing of the starter with a breaker bar (George was MIA) and was able to hear it crank.
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      09-11-2020, 11:57 PM   #6
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+1

11 years old E90, if starter had never been replaced, it may have just died.
Especially if you had experienced intermittent crank issues in the past, such as not cranking for a split second when engine is warm and/or on inclined road, but then cranking and starting up quickly, your starter is very likely dead now.

In my case one of the brushes of the starter motor had gotten stuck on its track with accumulation of dirt over the years. The spring behind wasn't able to push it towards the commutator, not making the contact. It suddenly died, except for at least a year I had that symptom I described in the above paragraph, very seldom though.
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      09-12-2020, 12:18 AM   #7
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If you can check for codes from INPA or ISTA as previously mentioned, the failed starter would give you a code.
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      09-12-2020, 08:35 AM   #8
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On my E46, which I bought in September 2019, 2 weeks after I bought it, sitting in its parking space at home, it didn't start. No crank. 100,000 miles. I didn't test anything; I just bought a new starter and replaced it.

Sometimes things are just simple.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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      09-12-2020, 12:56 PM   #9
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The starter was kind of slughish prior like it wasnt getting enough juice. I thought it was the ground cable from the chasis that connectsbto the engine. Research and saw there are instances it gets corroded and doesnt geound well but checked with a voltmeter and test light and the engine seems to have good ground.

I didnt want to purchase a new starter until i was sire was bad so just got one from a 2011 328i that should fit and is working. Got it from my local UPick yard for $40. If is not the starter atleast got a working spare.

I had to travel out state and coming back this weekend to keep probing the issue.

I was trying to load a video here but seems too large so I will post on youtube and share the link.
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      09-12-2020, 12:59 PM   #10
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thanks ...I need to recheck my steps make sure didnt miss anything simple as you said....ty
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      09-12-2020, 03:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
On my E46, which I bought in September 2019, 2 weeks after I bought it, sitting in its parking space at home, it didn't start. No crank. 100,000 miles. I didn't test anything; [NOT even Battery Voltage?] I just bought a new starter and replaced it. [You didn't even tap the Starter Solenoid with a broom handle, or apply a Jumper cable as supplemental ground between Chassis & Block? ] Sometimes things are just simple. [You didn't even scan for Codes? ]
And sometimes they are NOT simple.

You have a LOT of energy -- I'm LAZY.

I agree that MOST "No-Crank" situations are caused by either (A) a "Bad" Battery (which can actually be LOW battery voltage due to (1) Alternator issue or (2) Parasitic Draw, while the battery is still OK), or (B) Starter Failure due to worn brushes, Solenoid failure, or other Starter Motor issue.

However, there have been cases reported here of either CAS fuse being blown, wiring issue between CAS & Starter Solenoid, issue with P/N gear position or Brake Light Switch on AT vehicles, or Clutch Switch on MT vehicles, or even issues with the CAS Module itself, which prevented Starter Activation when START button pressed with foot on Brake/Clutch.

There have also been MANY cases reported on the forums where "Collateral Damage" has occurred when people removed the intake manifold to access the Starter, such as Crankcase Vent Hose being damaged, wiper wires being pinched by improper Strut Brace Replacement, etc.

So LAZY George recommends TESTING/DIAGNOSIS BEFORE going into "Get 'er DONE" Mode.

BTW, if anyone knows of any code that definitively indicates a BAD Stater Motor/Solenoid, please provide the Code Number & any authority for that "Definition" or "Interpretation". For example, A0B4 has the Definition "A0B4 | CAS: Engine start, starter operation" according to BMW Fault Code Lookup. If anyone claims to know the PRECISE conditions under which that Code is recorded in CAS Fault Memory, please enlighten. Forum-Folk have suggested that code means "Replace Starter", but yet we have seen several reported cases where the Starter Solenoid is Activated and the Starter Cranks & Starts the engine when the Solenoid is "hotwired". In those cases, there was a fault in the wiring/connectors between the CAS Module & Starter Solenoid. So it appears that code ONLY indicates that CAS "Terminal 50" is activated, and the Starter does NOT activate resulting in System Voltage Drop which CAN be measured by the CAS or DME, or possibly Crank Rotation as measured by CPS.

Also, there is a code "A0B2" which has the Definition: "A0B2 CAS: Supply, terminal 30E/30L"
INPA has a screen that shows Voltage for BOTH Terminal 30E and Terminal 30L, as Live Data. The TIS wiring diagram for the CAS Module shows TWO fuses supplying power to the CAS Module. On my model, there is a 5-Amp fuse, presumably for Electronics, and a 50-Amp fuse, presumably for Load, or such things as Starter Solenoid Activation. When I pulled the 5-Amp fuse, the Voltage went from 12.x V to 0 for Terminal 30E, so I believe it's safe to say that the INPA readout in "CAS > Diagnose Terminals" tells voltage supplied by the 5A Electronics Fuse in the "30E" bar graph, and voltage supplied by the 50A Load Fuse in the "30L" bar graph. Sorry to give people a headache, but the moral to the story is there is a LOT that the guys in Munich could teach us about our cars if we just had the time & curiosity to examine the DETAILS.

George (Lazier every day ;-)

Last edited by gbalthrop; 09-12-2020 at 03:52 PM..
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      09-12-2020, 03:55 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
And sometimes they are NOT simple.

You have a LOT of energy -- I'm LAZY.

I agree that MOST "No-Crank" situations are caused by either (A) a "Bad" Battery (which can actually be LOW battery voltage due to (1) Alternator issue or (2) Parasitic Draw, while the battery is still OK), or (B) Starter Failure due to worn brushes, Solenoid failure, or other Starter Motor issue.

However, there have been cases reported here of either CAS fuse being blown, wiring issue between CAS & Starter Solenoid, issue with P/N gear position or Brake Light Switch on AT vehicles, or Clutch Switch on MT vehicles, or even issues with the CAS Module itself, which prevented Starter Activation when START button pressed with foot on Brake/Clutch.

There have also been MANY cases reported on the forums where "Collateral Damage" has occurred when people removed the intake manifold to access the Starter, such as Crankcase Vent Hose being damaged, wiper wires being pinched by improper Strut Brace Replacement, etc.

So LAZY George recommends TESTING/DIAGNOSIS BEFORE going into "Get 'er DONE" Mode.

George (Lazier every day ;-)
Well, in my defense, I have a lift as you know, and the M54 starter can be replaced without removing the intake manifold (as is required for the N52). A special wrench is needed to get the top bellhousing E-torx bolt E-on the M54 (I improvised of course - because I'm that good ). Most E46 DIY'er strip the E-torx head on that bolt.

I just tow started the E46 with my wife driving the Hummer in the front yard, dove the E46 over to the lift and a few hours later, an easy key-turn start of the engine; just as Mr. Bendix intended.

And no, I didn't even think of scanning for codes (which I ALWAYS advocate as you also know). Too bad cars are no longer like my 1972 Pinto where you can swap the starter in about 15 minutes with a 1/2" wrench.

Now, what I thought WOULD be simple is finding a good replacement pump for my pressure washer. Not so much... simple. Ugh
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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      09-12-2020, 07:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
... Now, what I thought WOULD be simple is finding a good replacement pump for my pressure washer. Not so much... simple. Ugh
You and I are Dinosaurs, me more than you, in that we expect to be able to fix stuff ourselves. I'm still used to the old days when you could buy Sears/Craftsman stuff and get replacement parts from your Owner's Manual or Online Listings in several days. Then Chinese stuff (NEW) became cheaper than Sears/Craftsman parts & then Sears goes under. Problem with a LOT of stuff today is that there is NO support if/when it fails & NO parts suppliers (known to me at least).

What Brand/Model Pressure Washer? Have you checked Amazon? Amazon has replaced Sears for me in a LOT of ways. You can even punch in BMW xxxxxxxxxxx, and get E9x parts for a lot of things (Mandatory BMW Content for this OT post ;-) Here's an example Amazon search for "Pressure Washer Pump":
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Pressure+...f=nb_sb_noss_2

The "Lifan 3370" I bought ~ 3 years ago still works fine cleaning decks, walks & such, but I have NO idea WHERE/IF one could get parts. Similar model NOW costs 2x what I paid 3 years ago. If you find one or more "Go To" Equipment Parts Sources, please advise.

Update: I checked my Lifan Owner's Manual and it states it has an "Annovi Reverberi" High Pressure Pump, and Amazon shows such a pump. It appears that the gas engine, frame, etc. may be ONE make and they use common Pumps. So if you can find a pump brand and model ID on yours, THAT would appear to be the thing to search for.

George

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      10-20-2020, 09:53 PM   #14
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Did took me some time but finally got the starter change and it worked like a charm the only thing is that I replaced the valve cover gasket (bougth from amazon) and when i replace it and put everything back together and start the car it rough idles very bad. I check the Valvetronic motor ensuring removal and installation was right as it missfire, check all connections and is better now way better. Smoth idle ranvfor a while. I turned the car off for a while and it seems to be idle rough for a few minutes then goes away.

Any idea or direction on what it coul be and to check.
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      10-21-2020, 06:26 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
And sometimes they are NOT simple.

You have a LOT of energy -- I'm LAZY.

I agree that MOST "No-Crank" situations are caused by either (A) a "Bad" Battery (which can actually be LOW battery voltage due to (1) Alternator issue or (2) Parasitic Draw, while the battery is still OK), or (B) Starter Failure due to worn brushes, Solenoid failure, or other Starter Motor issue.

However, there have been cases reported here of either CAS fuse being blown, wiring issue between CAS & Starter Solenoid, issue with P/N gear position or Brake Light Switch on AT vehicles, or Clutch Switch on MT vehicles, or even issues with the CAS Module itself, which prevented Starter Activation when START button pressed with foot on Brake/Clutch.

There have also been MANY cases reported on the forums where "Collateral Damage" has occurred when people removed the intake manifold to access the Starter, such as Crankcase Vent Hose being damaged, wiper wires being pinched by improper Strut Brace Replacement, etc.

So LAZY George recommends TESTING/DIAGNOSIS BEFORE going into "Get 'er DONE" Mode.

BTW, if anyone knows of any code that definitively indicates a BAD Stater Motor/Solenoid, please provide the Code Number & any authority for that "Definition" or "Interpretation". For example, A0B4 has the Definition "A0B4 | CAS: Engine start, starter operation" according to BMW Fault Code Lookup. If anyone claims to know the PRECISE conditions under which that Code is recorded in CAS Fault Memory, please enlighten. Forum-Folk have suggested that code means "Replace Starter", but yet we have seen several reported cases where the Starter Solenoid is Activated and the Starter Cranks & Starts the engine when the Solenoid is "hotwired". In those cases, there was a fault in the wiring/connectors between the CAS Module & Starter Solenoid. So it appears that code ONLY indicates that CAS "Terminal 50" is activated, and the Starter does NOT activate resulting in System Voltage Drop which CAN be measured by the CAS or DME, or possibly Crank Rotation as measured by CPS.

Also, there is a code "A0B2" which has the Definition: "A0B2 CAS: Supply, terminal 30E/30L"
INPA has a screen that shows Voltage for BOTH Terminal 30E and Terminal 30L, as Live Data. The TIS wiring diagram for the CAS Module shows TWO fuses supplying power to the CAS Module. On my model, there is a 5-Amp fuse, presumably for Electronics, and a 50-Amp fuse, presumably for Load, or such things as Starter Solenoid Activation. When I pulled the 5-Amp fuse, the Voltage went from 12.x V to 0 for Terminal 30E, so I believe it's safe to say that the INPA readout in "CAS > Diagnose Terminals" tells voltage supplied by the 5A Electronics Fuse in the "30E" bar graph, and voltage supplied by the 50A Load Fuse in the "30L" bar graph. Sorry to give people a headache, but the moral to the story is there is a LOT that the guys in Munich could teach us about our cars if we just had the time & curiosity to examine the DETAILS.

George (Lazier every day ;-)
So it turned out to simply be the starter went bad...

OP, sounds like you introduced a vacuum leak somewhere when you replaced the VCG. Start the engine and open the oil fill cap and see how the engine reacts. As a double check, pull the ESS connector (with the engine off) and run the engine and see if the idle improves. Finally, with the engine off, unplug the MAF sensor and start the engine and see how it runs.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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      10-21-2020, 06:34 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
You and I are Dinosaurs, me more than you, in that we expect to be able to fix stuff ourselves. I'm still used to the old days when you could buy Sears/Craftsman stuff and get replacement parts from your Owner's Manual or Online Listings in several days. Then Chinese stuff (NEW) became cheaper than Sears/Craftsman parts & then Sears goes under. Problem with a LOT of stuff today is that there is NO support if/when it fails & NO parts suppliers (known to me at least).

What Brand/Model Pressure Washer? Have you checked Amazon? Amazon has replaced Sears for me in a LOT of ways. You can even punch in BMW xxxxxxxxxxx, and get E9x parts for a lot of things (Mandatory BMW Content for this OT post ;-) Here's an example Amazon search for "Pressure Washer Pump":
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Pressure+...f=nb_sb_noss_2

The "Lifan 3370" I bought ~ 3 years ago still works fine cleaning decks, walks & such, but I have NO idea WHERE/IF one could get parts. Similar model NOW costs 2x what I paid 3 years ago. If you find one or more "Go To" Equipment Parts Sources, please advise.

Update: I checked my Lifan Owner's Manual and it states it has an "Annovi Reverberi" High Pressure Pump, and Amazon shows such a pump. It appears that the gas engine, frame, etc. may be ONE make and they use common Pumps. So if you can find a pump brand and model ID on yours, THAT would appear to be the thing to search for.

George
So to shorten a long story about the pressure washer...

I ended up buying a commercial AAA triplex pump (vs. an axial pump - read as cheap crap). It's possible the AAA pump required more HP than 4.6 HP the original Honda GC160 engine that was on the PW has, because the engine wouldn't reach max RPM of 3,600; or it may have been the dead cricket in the pump water inlet screen (don't ask).

Anyway... I finally got the HP spec for the AAA pump from the manufacturer (should have done that first), which is 5.23 HP. So I bought new 5.5 HP Honda GX200 engine from Northern Tool. Assembled everything on the original Troy-Bilt chassis and have a butt-kicking pressure washer now. It only cost about the same as just buying a new pressure washer.

I call it a Efthreeoh-Bilt pressure washer now, Model 2020.10.03
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."

Last edited by Efthreeoh; 10-21-2020 at 09:40 AM..
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      10-21-2020, 11:57 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
... It's possible the AAA pump required more HP than 4.6 HP the original Honda GC160 engine that was on the PW has, because the engine wouldn't reach max RPM of 3,600; or it may have been the dead cricket in the pump water inlet screen (don't ask). Anyway... I finally got the HP spec for the AAA pump from the manufacturer (should have done that first), which is 5.23 HP. So I bought new 5.5 HP Honda GX200 engine from Northern Tool. Assembled everything on the original Troy-Bilt chassis and have a butt-kicking pressure washer now...It only cost about the same as just buying a new pressure washer.
I call it a Efthreeoh-Bilt pressure washer now, Model 2020.10.03
I'm surprised you didn't put a "Turbo" on the GC160.
Depending upon "Jiminy's" size, he may have added about 1HP "Load" to the pump-turning power requirement due to flow restriction. Don't know anything about Honda equipment engines -- WHAT is the "X" rating for in in "GX200"?

NOT to give you heartburn re "F30-built" pump, but my Lifan LFQ3370(E) manual says the Annovi Reverberi Axial Cam pump develops 3300 PSI @ 3GPM. It is powered by 7HP 212cc OHV engine. Only question is: How much margin between "Maximum HorsePower" rating of engine, and HP Requirement of Pump is "Safe"?

OP, pardon our Hi-Jacking your thread -- we have a bad habit of doing that.

NOT clear from your last post if you did BOTH the VCG & Starter Motor replacement at same time. EITHER of those procedures could result in damage to a vacuum hose or Air Leak into the Intake. Check for any DME Fault Codes, and if you need suggestions on how to locate vacuum leak, let us know.

George

Last edited by gbalthrop; 10-21-2020 at 10:19 PM..
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      10-21-2020, 04:22 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saul09e90 View Post
Did took me some time but finally got the starter change and it worked like a charm the only thing is that I replaced the valve cover gasket (bougth from amazon) and when i replace it and put everything back together and start the car it rough idles very bad. I check the Valvetronic motor ensuring removal and installation was right as it missfire, check all connections and is better now way better. Smoth idle ranvfor a while. I turned the car off for a while and it seems to be idle rough for a few minutes then goes away.

Any idea or direction on what it coul be and to check.
Sounds like a vacuum leak. When you removed the valve cover did you replace the breather hose? They typically break no matter how careful you are.
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      10-22-2020, 06:09 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
I'm surprised you didn't put a "Turbo" on the GC160.
Depending upon "Jiminy's" size, he may have added about 1HP "Load" to the pump-turning power requirement due to flow restriction. Don't know anything about Honda equipment engines -- WHAT is the "X" rating for in in "GX200"?

NOT to give you heartburn re "F30-built" pump, but my Lifan LFQ3370(E) manual says the Annovi Reverberi Axial Cam pump develops 3300 PSI @ 3GPM. It is powered by 7HP 212cc OHV engine. Only question is: How much margin between "Maximum HorsePower" rating of engine, and HP Requirement of Pump is "Safe"?

OP, pardon our Hi-Jacking your thread -- we have a bad habit of doing that.

NOT clear from your last post if you did BOTH the VCG & Starter Motor replacement at same time. EITHER of those procedures could result in damage to a vacuum hose or Air Leak into the Intake. Check for any DME Fault Codes, and if you need suggestions on how to locate vacuum leak, let us know.

George

OP, apologies for the thread Jack... That was my last one; just knowledge sharing. Hope you get the vacuum leak figured out. Low310 I think is correct, you probably cracked the valve cover vent pipe.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."

Last edited by Efthreeoh; 10-22-2020 at 09:18 AM..
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      10-26-2020, 08:14 PM   #20
saul09e90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowrydr310 View Post
Sounds like a vacuum leak. When you removed the valve cover did you replace the breather hose? They typically break no matter how careful you are.
Not sure what the issue may be now bit checked all my vacum hoses
and all the codes I am getting due with missfire, it seem to be when I removed the
Valvetronic eccentric motor on the valve cover it became offset and timming is off.
I read and then read some more about the issues with the Valvetronic motor and relearning the stops so it can go back in correct timing. Funny thing when I was removing the original valve cover I chipped one edge rendering it unusable. So I went to my local Upick to get a used OEM cover thinking was the best route but after installing and removing the Valvetronic motor trying to bring to correct positioning it now leaks from that area and one of the gasket holding screws would jot get tight.

I read and read some nore andbit seems that in most scenerios the Valvetronic eccentric shaft motor self adjusts by just cycling the ignition however there are caes you need a learning tool BMW ISTA+, so i am researching on that in case I need to dowload and buy the K+DCAN cable there are a few youtube videos.

I purchase a brand new valve cover, Valvetronic motor and sensor which I should be getting this week. I pulled the vanos seleboids and did a thorough cleaning with break cleaner and also pressure air. It did helped but for some odd reason after letting the car run idle with no load for 30 minutes I then drove around the neighborhood everything great 😀 but then I stopped and let the engine idle with AC on and on drive gear and there it was again rough ideling and almost stalling.

I am not giving up!!! The new parts are on the way and hoping it works with just changing the parts and cleaning with electric connection cleaning all the connections of the harness.

In the event it doesnt work 100% with the engine running smooth again which software you guys recommend ISTA+ and where to downloaded. Is there a scanner tool that allows you to have the Valvetronic eccentric motor shaft re-learnd the stops. I called ECS Tunning and the guy recomended Schwaben by Foxwell ES#2975699 scan tool but I wasnt sure he understood what I needed to be able to do with the unit.
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      10-29-2020, 09:01 PM   #21
lowrydr310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saul09e90 View Post
Not sure what the issue may be now bit checked all my vacum hoses
and all the codes I am getting due with missfire, it seem to be when I removed the
Valvetronic eccentric motor on the valve cover it became offset and timming is off.
I read and then read some more about the issues with the Valvetronic motor and relearning the stops so it can go back in correct timing. Funny thing when I was removing the original valve cover I chipped one edge rendering it unusable. So I went to my local Upick to get a used OEM cover thinking was the best route but after installing and removing the Valvetronic motor trying to bring to correct positioning it now leaks from that area and one of the gasket holding screws would jot get tight.

I read and read some nore andbit seems that in most scenerios the Valvetronic eccentric shaft motor self adjusts by just cycling the ignition however there are caes you need a learning tool BMW ISTA+, so i am researching on that in case I need to dowload and buy the K+DCAN cable there are a few youtube videos.

I purchase a brand new valve cover, Valvetronic motor and sensor which I should be getting this week. I pulled the vanos seleboids and did a thorough cleaning with break cleaner and also pressure air. It did helped but for some odd reason after letting the car run idle with no load for 30 minutes I then drove around the neighborhood everything great 😀 but then I stopped and let the engine idle with AC on and on drive gear and there it was again rough ideling and almost stalling.

I am not giving up!!! The new parts are on the way and hoping it works with just changing the parts and cleaning with electric connection cleaning all the connections of the harness.

In the event it doesnt work 100% with the engine running smooth again which software you guys recommend ISTA+ and where to downloaded. Is there a scanner tool that allows you to have the Valvetronic eccentric motor shaft re-learnd the stops. I called ECS Tunning and the guy recomended Schwaben by Foxwell ES#2975699 scan tool but I wasnt sure he understood what I needed to be able to do with the unit.

Please keep us updated. It still sounds more like a lean condition from a vacuum leak as opposed to a valvetronic problem.

I removed my valvetronic motor several times on two different cars, for valve cover replacements and for valvetronic motor diagnostics and never had a problem with learning the stops. I haven't done any special procedure other than waiting a few seconds to press the start button after inserting the key.

How many miles are on your car? If it's over 100K and you have no record of replacing the eccentric shaft sensor, then good call for replacing it now. My car had the valve cover replaced by the previous owner around 120K miles and he didn't replace the eccentric shaft sensor. At 135K the eccentric shaft sensor failed forcing me to remove the valve cover and replace the gasket again.

I'd wait and not install the new valvetronic motor yet. It's easy enough to install the old one and see if your car runs better, that way if it's fixed you can return the motor.

You said you checked the vacuum hoses but didn't say how. I was getting an intermittent rough idle that would smooth out after a while, then randomly appear while stopped sometimes. Eventually I started getting the "service engine soon" light which was triggered by lean codes set at idle RPMs. I visually inspected all hoses and they looked fine, but it was only after doing a smoke test that I discovered one of my crankcase ventilation hoses was badly leaking. You may still need to double check that crankcase breather hose that attaches to the valve cover.
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      11-22-2020, 02:07 PM   #22
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Hi all - I'd like to piggyback off of the OP's initial problem here since you've all provided a lot of great information in this post, but I'll introduce a dramatic twist that replacing my car's starter didn't fix my "no crank, no start" problem *gasp* - in fact, multiple starters have died at the hand of my car... apparently. If you think I should start a new thread for this, please feel free to suggest so, but I thought it might be good to use this as a starting point.

TLDR version: I have a no crank, no start problem accompanied by the aforementioned A0B4 code, refractory to new starter installations x2 recent. New P0442(EVAP System Leak Detected) code this time around, for which the suggestion is to replace the fuel cap, which is on its way in the mail, but not sure this would prevent starter from coming on or prompt the A0B4 code.

Description of symptoms: Car dash lights up as normal. Press break + clutch, hit ignition switch - The only sound seems to be the hum of the fuel pump. Cannot distinguish any pinion "click" either.
A0B4 code as before, but new code of
OBD-II scanners: Bavarian technic cable and BlueDriver.

Too long version:
My car is a 328i, 2008 e90 with a manual transmission at ~147k miles. Recently moved from NC to MA. Here's a timeline of what I believe to be pertinent issues relative to diagnosing the issue at hand.
8/2017, no crank, no start - 1 month after purchasing car, was stranded in parking lot when starter first died. Replaced with a TYC 117922 starter motor from RockAuto. Fixed. (Starter Replacement #1, TYC)
9/2020, battery replacement - Noticed weak cranking (not an absence of cranking) and later that day, had to get a jump (at the jump posts in the engine bay) in a Big Y parking lot to get to Autozone, where I replaced the battery with their suggested Duralast Gold [H6-DLG Group Size 48 730 CCA] - I was at first wary as it wasn't an exact fit, but it was the best they had at the time so I went with it. Installed it and was on my way without issue.
10/14/20, intermittent no crank, no start Thought that there was no way my starter was the issue after having replaced it only 3.5 years ago, but I was luckily in my parking lot at work, atop a hill so I pushed it across the lot and was able to pop-start it down the hill. Figured the most likely problem was a bad starter, as the battery was new and there wasn't even a weak crank, and due to the fact that the car started. Oddly enough, after cautiously parking my car atop a hill ~1mi from home that night for the next morning, the car started without issue - didn't have to pop-start. for about 3-4 days, the car started morning and night without issue, before the problem returned. I figured, "okay, likely the starter." For good measure, I used a multimeter while the engine was running to verify that the alternator was charging the battery, got ~14v, so excluded any alternator and battery issues at this time, in my mind. Requested warranty replacement of TYC starter from RockAuto, problem solved...figured it was just a short-lived starter, so life went on. (Starter Replacement #2, TYC)

11/6/20, intermittent no crank, no start What. The. Heck. Enlisted the help of a more mechanically-capable friend. Together, we decided it couldn't possibly be the starter - the new starter worked well for over 2 weeks! Must be an electrical or computer-related issue... Dove into these forums (very thankful to you all for sharing your plethora of knowledge and experience) and tested a few alternative paths:
- Ensured battery was properly secured & connections were strong, no kinked or exposed wires to be found. Thought maybe the BST sensor was damaged somehow (no crashes or recent trauma - unless you count New England potholes...which actually, you might ). B+ seemed secure, tight, didn't appear to be the BST upon examination and pushing in positive cable didn't seem to help problem.
- Unhooked the IBS to see if this was inhibiting the starter. Only managed to throw an IBS-related code, which resolved after re-connecting. No success.
- Tested voltage at starter bolt by using metal rod & multimeter without needing to remove intake manifold. Voltage at starter = ~12v.
- Tested ignition switch connection to starter by using multimeter to test same part of as the OP did with a test light & ensured ~12v were measured when start button pressed.
- Verified good ground wire, good contact: engine-to-frame ground wire in good condition, seemingly no reason to suspect this is issue...car has historically been in south until this fall, so little exposure to road-salt or water, even less with underbody panels of course.
- Used multimeter to verify all fuses related to "starter" according to fuse box diagram were all working. Replaced R4 relay for kicks as some suggest, but to no avail.
- Questioned whether my clutch or break sensor may be faulty with the CAS preventing starter engagement, but was unsure how to best test this. My logic led me to try and start the car as I normally would and listen for the hum of the fuel pump, which normally lasts between 1-2 seconds while holding in clutch+break. I then tried to start again, but pulled foot off clutch, which stopped the fuel pump hum immediately; similar experience when pulling foot off break. I considered this to mean these sensors were likely intact, although I have no idea if this is a correct assumption or test. Also discounted this possibility as the ignition switch received power on ignition press.
- Out of desperation... looked back at the starter itself. Gave it a love tap and it came to life. Removed starter, went to AA and bought a CarQuest starter to replace it with. Problem fixed...for ~10 days.
(Starter Replacement #3, CarQuest)

11/16/20 Morale is low, boys. No crank, no start again....only difference now is that I have a new P0442 code (EVAP System Leak Detected), for which the suggestion is to replace the fuel cap, which is on its way in the mail. Wondering if I triggered this by poking around in the engine bay somewhere or might have a loose hose, but even so - would this prevent the engine from starting? I figured if it did, it wouldn't have worked for two weeks, but maybe something wiggled loose, although I couldn't find any evidence of this being the case on inspection...
Today
I find it very hard to believe I've just happened into a patch of bad starters, but maybe that's what this is? I always thought if a starter was bad, it would be dead on arrival... Do I need to do another tap test / throw another one in there or is there something I'm missing? Is there any way that my battery-change could be "frying" the starters, or were these starters simply bad to begin with? Is there something I could be doing wrong during installation to cause these issues? Any thoughts on my next step? CAS problem without codes?
Hopefully I've reported enough, but not too much context here - I apologize for the length, but I figured detail would be preferred...

Other codes coming up that I initially deemed irrelevant, but I'll include for completeness-sake:
- DSC codes for ~5 months which have not changed (5DF0 + 5DF1), which I will address eventually, but do not seem relevant here.
- Engine codes 2F71 + 2A15, which have been present since I've had the car and was told the fix was very expensive, so never bothered with it.

Any thoughts would be appreciated,
Thanks all.
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