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      05-18-2022, 01:47 PM   #1
JohnWizz
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E91 Wagon w/ Hifi - Does this "sound" normal?

Hi all,

So, I haven't had my car long (several months) and just replaced the CCC unit so I just started listening to the "radio".

I have read a number of threads on the Hifi amps going bad and not having any Bass. I am wondering if that is what my problem is or if this is just "normal"...

To get any kind of Bass I have the bass setting turned all the way up with the Treble set dead in the middle. I get no Bass at low volumes but when I turn the volume up fairly loud it actually starts to get decent Bass.

I never expected earth shattering Bass but with dual subs it should at least get decent Bass even at low levels, I would think.

Does this sound like a normal E91 or does it sound like the Hifi amp is bad?

Thank you!
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      05-18-2022, 02:05 PM   #2
whyzee125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnWizz View Post
Hi all,

So, I haven't had my car long (several months) and just replaced the CCC unit so I just started listening to the "radio".

I have read a number of threads on the Hifi amps going bad and not having any Bass. I am wondering if that is what my problem is or if this is just "normal"...

To get any kind of Bass I have the bass setting turned all the way up with the Treble set dead in the middle. I get no Bass at low volumes but when I turn the volume up fairly loud it actually starts to get decent Bass.

I never expected earth shattering Bass but with dual subs it should at least get decent Bass even at low levels, I would think.

Does this sound like a normal E91 or does it sound like the Hifi amp is bad?

Thank you!
I don't get crazy bass at low volumes but it seems to ramp up fairly normally with the rest of the volume. I never noticed having "no" bass with my stock amp at low volume so I think that's not normal.
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      05-18-2022, 06:15 PM   #3
ctuna
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Yep pretty much no Bass on the Hi Fi system and the under powered
amp starts to distort on the doors to if you turn it up.
Very muddy and distorted at high levels across the board.

Did you make sure your replacement CCC was programmed for Hi Fi
option 676.
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      05-18-2022, 07:25 PM   #4
JohnWizz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctuna View Post
Yep pretty much no Bass on the Hi Fi system and the under powered
amp starts to distort on the doors to if you turn it up.
Very muddy and distorted at high levels across the board.

Did you make sure your replacement CCC was programmed for Hi Fi
option 676.
Yep, pretty sure I programmed it correctly. I am thinking about replacing the stock amp now. I have read some good things about just replacing the amp and getting much better sound.

Up to now, I have been taking care of all the must fix stuff. Now it's time to start playing!

Thanks!
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      05-18-2022, 07:27 PM   #5
JohnWizz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whyzee125 View Post
I don't get crazy bass at low volumes but it seems to ramp up fairly normally with the rest of the volume. I never noticed having "no" bass with my stock amp at low volume so I think that's not normal.
Thanks for replying! I am saying "NO" bass at low volumes but there probably is some it is just basically non-existent...
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      05-25-2022, 09:39 PM   #6
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What kind of music are you playing? Could be that the bass you’re expecting is just on the edge of being able to be reproduced by the factory amp.

The hifi subs are quite decent, once they’re fed more power than the factory HiFi amp.
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      05-25-2022, 11:16 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Hoody007 View Post
What kind of music are you playing? Could be that the bass you’re expecting is just on the edge of being able to be reproduced by the factory amp.

The hifi subs are quite decent, once they’re fed more power than the factory HiFi amp.
I had actually tried a number of different types of music to see what the sound was like.

For the time being I have added an amp and a small sub in the back. I am going to try and just use the amp to push the under seats to see how it sounds. I don't really like having a sub in the back but if that's what it take to get decent bass I will end up with it. We shall see.

Thanks for your input!
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      05-26-2022, 01:48 AM   #8
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upgrading the under seats and using and aftermarket amp of decent power and quality alone can give you much better midbass .
This won't give getto panel rattling bass but you will defiantly audiophile full range
music if you want it.

Stock speakers are garbage but the stock amp is even lower on the scale.

When I did and upgrade I tried the aftermarket amp on the stock hi fi 's and though it did improve
things the underseats where really muddy with aftermarket power.

I have some expensive door and underseats and the difference is night and day.
along with the amp of course.
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      05-26-2022, 10:59 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctuna View Post
upgrading the under seats and using and aftermarket amp of decent power and quality alone can give you much better midbass .
This won't give getto panel rattling bass but you will defiantly audiophile full range
music if you want it.

Stock speakers are garbage but the stock amp is even lower on the scale.

When I did and upgrade I tried the aftermarket amp on the stock hi fi 's and though it did improve
things the underseats where really muddy with aftermarket power.

I have some expensive door and underseats and the difference is night and day.
along with the amp of course.
Today I hooked the amp up to the under seat speakers and I have to say I was pretty impressed. Yes, they are not the cleanest I have ever heard but they actually came to life with a little power behind them and made the whole system sound much, much better.

I have to wonder why BMW would put such a crapy amp on these speakers if they can sound as good as they do with a little power behind them... I know, I know, this is the "stock" system in the US but we aren't talking about a VW here... When I worked for a high end boat manufacturer our stock stereos always sounded better than the upgrades most other companies put in their boats. That's what a premium brand does!!!

I'm curious... When I first replaced my CCC, before I programed everything for my car there was actually a 6 or 8 (can't remember) channel equalizer that showed up under the audio settings. Once I reprogrammed the CCC it only has treble and bass adjustments. Does anyone know a way to get the EQ back?

Thanks for all the input!!!
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      05-26-2022, 11:35 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnWizz View Post
Today I hooked the amp up to the under seat speakers and I have to say I was pretty impressed. Yes, they are not the cleanest I have ever heard but they actually came to life with a little power behind them and made the whole system sound much, much better.

I have to wonder why BMW would put such a crapy amp on these speakers if they can sound as good as they do with a little power behind them... I know, I know, this is the "stock" system in the US but we aren't talking about a VW here... When I worked for a high end boat manufacturer our stock stereos always sounded better than the upgrades most other companies put in their boats. That's what a premium brand does!!!

I'm curious... When I first replaced my CCC, before I programed everything for my car there was actually a 6 or 8 (can't remember) channel equalizer that showed up under the audio settings. Once I reprogrammed the CCC it only has treble and bass adjustments. Does anyone know a way to get the EQ back?

Thanks for all the input!!!
Why is is bad? Because they wanted to sell the Logic 7 upgrade!

Your CCC was probably coded for a car with Logic 7 - no way to get that back unless you retrofit the L7 amp as well.

Not sure what amp you’re using, but another really nice upgrade are the Individual Audio speakers. Proper crossover network, kevlar mids, silk dome tweeters. Really nice components.
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      05-27-2022, 12:28 AM   #11
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I have to wonder why BMW would put such a crapy amp on these speakers if they can sound as good as they do with a little power behind them... I know, I know, this is the "stock" system in the US but we aren't talking about a VW here... When I worked for a high end boat manufacturer our stock stereos always sounded better than the upgrades most other companies put in their boats. That's what a premium brand does!!!

The upgraded system in the e46 was pretty good. But then they weren't using tiny door speakers .

Bean counters run these companys now it's not like it's a unique thing to BMW
but still these are suppose be luxury cars in the US.
The longing for high end stereo kind of disappeared with the IPOD generation and
low bit rate digital recordings.

The current BMW amps power rating are at 10 percent distortion .
Nobody talks about it any more but distortion should be well under 1 percent at rated power.

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1144129
In the above link the Power chip spec's for L7 are shown.
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      05-27-2022, 11:48 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctuna View Post
I have to wonder why BMW would put such a crapy amp on these speakers if they can sound as good as they do with a little power behind them... I know, I know, this is the "stock" system in the US but we aren't talking about a VW here... When I worked for a high end boat manufacturer our stock stereos always sounded better than the upgrades most other companies put in their boats. That's what a premium brand does!!!

The upgraded system in the e46 was pretty good. But then they weren't using tiny door speakers .

Bean counters run these companys now it's not like it's a unique thing to BMW
but still these are suppose be luxury cars in the US.
The longing for high end stereo kind of disappeared with the IPOD generation and
low bit rate digital recordings.

The current BMW amps power rating are at 10 percent distortion .
Nobody talks about it any more but distortion should be well under 1 percent at rated power.

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1144129
In the above link the Power chip spec's for L7 are shown.
Interesting you mention the E46's Harman Kardon system. Had some of the best imaging I've ever heard in a car. Music sounded like it was coming from beyond the dashboard. Still chasing that level of imaging in my E90. Big letdown there were the Mylar tweeters which were just too harsh.
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      05-27-2022, 02:08 PM   #13
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I learned via tuning that if crossover/filter is not right for tweeter then they are harsh. Mylar probably difficult to get right with just passive filter.
I tried three different tweeters and they all needed their own special parameters to sound fullest/cleanest.
With a good mic can see the baseline of frequency response and get idea what can be achieved.

And in e90 some frequncies need to be lowered about -5db due to right side tweeter position (almost to the face). Depends on cone material.

Relatively easy to achieve good imaging with fully active. The feeling like driving towards the music.

In the forums i read that rear speakers are useless but damn they have quite powerful effect if blended well with the fronts.
It does slighly pull sound closer but also creates illusion like music comes equally from everywhere but artist itself is on the front.

I suppose if going passive setup then they are meh indeed.
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      05-27-2022, 05:35 PM   #14
ctuna
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Vp Electricity of MusicarNW you to say to set the passive crossover
in the e90 kits he sold to the - 3db setting for compensate for the same
thing you are describing. His kits all came setup like that.
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