[Nero10578]

So if you guys seen my previous post I crashed my E92, so I went looking for another 335i and this time an E90. Finally found an affordable 2010 LCI E90 335i M-Sport still with N54 engine. It had a stage 1 MHD 91 octane tune and a vrsf charge pipe but that's about it, or so I thought.

Fast forward yesterday morning, I re bought my MHD license and flashed it to stage 2+ again like I did with my E92. Immediately the engine wasn't running right and missing on idle eventually surging then stalling even if I add more gas it wouldn't respond. Ok that's weird, let's try resetting adaptations but no it still does it and shows a code of 2ABD boost pressure sensor, overrun. I was so stumped and confused what's the problem when it hit me. Maybe it had an upgraded TMAP sensor so I tried the 3.5 bar option in MHD and it works perfectly then. Now that I thought I got it to work already, I tried doing some pulls for logging but everytime I go WOT and go through gears it throws a 30FE overboost code and goes into limp mode. I also noticed the thing pullls HARDER than my E92 335i did on stage 2+ as well.

I did some more logging and found this, the boost mean which is the pressure before the throttle is extremely high and overshooting the boost targets. The turbo wastegates too are 20s to low 30s which is incredibly low for them to be able to generate 20 psi like you'll see in the logs. Because of this the throttle position is also at low 30s to control the boost psi in the manifold from overshooting.

The way I see this, my car somehow apparently has upgraded twin turbos and now I need to get a custom tune because MHD just targets too low a boost for the wastegate duty cycles which if this does have upgraded turbos makes sense to make more boost than oem ones at the same RPM and wastegate.

I attached screenshots only not datazap because I can't figure out a way to do it from my Amazon Fire 7 lol. But what do you guys think did I got lucky and unknowingly got a 335i with an upgraded twin setup or is this a stuck wastegate or something? The screenshots are from stage 2+ 91 octane and stage 0 maps.

[mweisdorfer]

Originally Posted by Nero10578

So if you guys seen my previous post I crashed my E92, so I went looking for another 335i and this time an E90. Finally found an affordable 2010 LCI E90 335i M-Sport still with N54 engine. It had a stage 1 MHD 91 octane tune and a vrsf charge pipe but that's about it, or so I thought.

Fast forward yesterday morning, I re bought my MHD license and flashed it to stage 2+ again like I did with my E92. Immediately the engine wasn't running right and missing on idle eventually surging then stalling even if I add more gas it wouldn't respond. Ok that's weird, let's try resetting adaptations but no it still does it and shows a code of 2ABD boost pressure sensor, overrun. I was so stumped and confused what's the problem when it hit me. Maybe it had an upgraded TMAP sensor so I tried the 3.5 bar option in MHD and it works perfectly then. Now that I thought I got it to work already, I tried doing some pulls for logging but everytime I go WOT and go through gears it throws a 30FE overboost code and goes into limp mode. I also noticed the thing pullls HARDER than my E92 335i did on stage 2+ as well.

I did some more logging and found this, the boost mean which is the pressure before the throttle is extremely high and overshooting the boost targets. The turbo wastegates too are 20s to low 30s which is incredibly low for them to be able to generate 20 psi like you'll see in the logs. Because of this the throttle position is also at low 30s to control the boost psi in the manifold from overshooting.

The way I see this, my car somehow apparently has upgraded twin turbos and now I need to get a custom tune because MHD just targets too low a boost for the wastegate duty cycles which if this does have upgraded turbos makes sense to make more boost than oem ones at the same RPM and wastegate.

I attached screenshots only not datazap because I can't figure out a way to do it from my Amazon Fire 7 lol. But what do you guys think did I got lucky and unknowingly got a 335i with an upgraded twin setup or is this a stuck wastegate or something? The screenshots are from stage 2+ 91 octane and stage 0 maps.

Hmm. You won't know 100% for sure until you pull the cover underneath and move the PS rack out of the way, in order to look at the turbos. Companies like RB, VVT & Pure put a small metal tag on theirs.

[type-dRew]

Figure out how to get logs to datazap, i send them from my fire 7 all the time.

[Nero10578]

Originally Posted by mweisdorfer

Hmm. You won't know 100% for sure until you pull the cover underneath and move the PS rack out of the way, in order to look at the turbos. Companies like RB, VVT & Pure put a small metal tag on theirs.

Hmm interesting. My go to shop told me I'd have to remove either downpipe or inlet to look if its upgraded?

[Torgus]

I mean just pay $250 for a custom tune and you will know VERY quickly if they are stock or not.

If the DPs are stock have them upgraded to catless and have a look then.

Both options are small money. I would do both.

[mweisdorfer]

Originally Posted by Nero10578

Hmm interesting. My go to shop told me I'd have to remove either downpipe or inlet to look if its upgraded?

You could go to all that trouble or you could just move the power steering rack out of the way.

[impuls]

Before you get too exited...
Using N20 TMAP checkbox with a N54 TMAP explains all objective observations. Boost will read too high, car will overboost seemingly, WGDC will be low for the boost that is (incorrectly) reported.

Who would sell a car, admit it is/was tuned but keep the upgraded turbos secret?

I suggest to verify what kind of TMAP you have really installed.

[Torgus]

I would if the turbos were burning oil or had issues...upgraded twins are not known to be exactly reliable.

What do you do with a sick horse? You sell it to someone else.

I would be VERY wary of buying any N54 powered car. Most I have seen stock twins last is 150k and that was only 1 person local. Mine shit the bed at 70k. With all those cheap turbos on ebay etc I can see a lots of potential future issues...know what you are getting in to potentially.

[Nero10578]

Originally Posted by impuls

Before you get too exited...
Using N20 TMAP checkbox with a N54 TMAP explains all objective observations. Boost will read too high, car will overboost seemingly, WGDC will be low for the boost that is (incorrectly) reported.

Who would sell a car, admit it is/was tuned but keep the upgraded turbos secret?

I suggest to verify what kind of TMAP you have really installed.

Yea but if I don't check that option the car won't run it'll misfire and then rpms will be all over and when put in R or D it'll stall. Checking that option made it run normal. Also i saw a modified harness for the sensor so i think its the diy re-pin method.

Either ways I got a Wedge custom tune on and now the turbos boost to 20psi mid range and 17psi at redline. These definitely don't boost like stockers considering FBO with inlet can't get that much on redline.

Now I got a new issue which is that the LPFP is losing pressure after multiple pulls so Ken (wedge) told me to upgrade the LPFP.

[impuls]

Originally Posted by Nero10578

Yea but if I don't check that option the car won't run it'll misfire and then rpms will be all over and when put in R or D it'll stall. Checking that option made it run normal.

Guess you are right, car wont run well if pressure is not read correctly.

[Nero10578]

Originally Posted by impuls

Guess you are right, car wont run well if pressure is not read correctly.

Yup. So I guess I got lucky with this car lol although now I have to deal with fuel pump and I also got a few leaking injectors it seems like. But at least the turbos are upgraded and are problem free haha

[buster84]

Originally Posted by Nero10578

Yup. So I guess I got lucky with this car lol although now I have to deal with fuel pump and I also got a few leaking injectors it seems like. But at least the turbos are upgraded and are problem free haha

Did you buy this car at the dealer? I'd be very weary about anything on that car if you bought it directly from someone. Anyone who leaves out things in the details of a sale is someone who's being deceptive to push a problem car onto someone else.

If you really do have upgraded turbos I'd try and look to see a brand name becuase for all you know this guy bought the cheapest Ebay turbos and threw them on their which means you'll be replacing those turbos soon enough. I'd also be worried about any maintenance or proper installation done for anything repaired to your car. Anyone who doesnt consider upgraded turbos as a posative to their car sale is someone with alot to hide. I'd go over that car with a full head to toe assessment and replace anything/everything that's maintenance able.

I hopefully everything works out, but I'd definitly try and look into the history of the car for any abnormalities/abuses

[Nero10578]

Originally Posted by buster84

Did you buy this car at the dealer? I'd be very weary about anything on that car if you bought it directly from someone. Anyone who leaves out things in the details of a sale is someone who's being deceptive to push a problem car onto someone else.

If you really do have upgraded turbos I'd try and look to see a brand name becuase for all you know this guy bought the cheapest Ebay turbos and threw them on their which means you'll be replacing those turbos soon enough. I'd also be worried about any maintenance or proper installation done for anything repaired to your car. Anyone who doesnt consider upgraded turbos as a posative to their car sale is someone with alot to hide. I'd go over that car with a full head to toe assessment and replace anything/everything that's maintenance able.

I hopefully everything works out, but I'd definitly try and look into the history of the car for any abnormalities/abuses

Yea I thought that too. I bought it from a car dealer but the previous owner is one of the employees there too. I'm the fourth owner and the third owner apparently just had to sell it because he needs money, he got the car a while back from a car sale deal or something apparently and he didn't do any mods to it he said.

Who knows what turbos these are but they're working right now and given that the third owner didn't even know of what's mhd and that this car had an mhd stage 1 tune on it for the year he owned it and it stayed intact I think its a decent one.

It does have some issues I gotta take care of, some of the bank 2 injectors seem to be leaking slightly and the lpfp is weak already. I wouldn't be surprised also if the 2nd owner was the one who modded the shit out of this car and stockout as much as possible before he sold it to the third owner. The weak injectors and pump seem to tell me the car was probably used pretty hard by the previous owner that put the turbos in.

[buster84]

Still sounds very odd especially if the previous owner worked at the dealer. I'd double check the car for any oil leaks, history of a belt shredding (dont want belt pieces in the oil pan ect...) hopefully the dealer who sold you the car is a good dealer and not one of those whole in the wall type of place.

Also upload a csv or datazap link that way we can see the full log of your turbos, fuel ect...

[Nero10578]

Originally Posted by buster84

Still sounds very odd especially if the previous owner worked at the dealer. I'd double check the car for any oil leaks, history of a belt shredding (dont want belt pieces in the oil pan ect...) hopefully the dealer who sold you the car is a good dealer and not one of those whole in the wall type of place.

Also upload a csv or datazap link that way we can see the full log of your turbos, fuel ect...

Yea I don't have history of the 2nd or first owner but the third owner did a few major N54 common maintenance already, valve cover gasket, ofhg, all vacuum hoses, walnut blast, radiator hoses, transmission fluid.

The car ran fine with the new Wedge tune now. As seen from this log:

https://datazap.me/u/owenarliawan/ac...og=0&data=3-22

Although the LPFP is on the verge of failing it seems and Ken (wedge) says to replace that ASAP and that my injectors are leaking. So yay there's that for me to spend money on now....also it has misfires at high rpm now all a sudden which might be because of the coils being old and running 20psi so I ordered new eldor coils to replace.

[buster84]

Originally Posted by Nero10578

Yea I don't have history of the 2nd or first owner but the third owner did a few major N54 common maintenance already, valve cover gasket, ofhg, all vacuum hoses, walnut blast, radiator hoses, transmission fluid.

The car ran fine with the new Wedge tune now. As seen from this log:

https://datazap.me/u/owenarliawan/ac...og=0&data=3-22

Although the LPFP is on the verge of failing it seems and Ken (wedge) says to replace that ASAP and that my injectors are leaking. So yay there's that for me to spend money on now....also it has misfires at high rpm now all a sudden which might be because of the coils being old and running 20psi so I ordered new eldor coils to replace.

Your lpfp is definitly dieing. Id also suggest new spark plugs and a new intercooler. Your IAT is over 150 so im guessing your on the stock intercooler. The duty cycle of your turbos looks about right for stock turbos, but every cars duty cycle varies so thats not the best way to determine if you have upgraded ones or not. It's also possible that they are new oem turbos with low miles that are just working very effeciently. Did you happen to do a vin check? Alot of bmw dealers who tend to report maintence/recalls so if they were replaced under warranty it might show up on the carfax. If anything you'll know what dealers the cars were serviced at and you can give them a call and ask for the repair history priving them with the vin ect...

[Nero10578]

Originally Posted by buster84

Your lpfp is definitly dieing. Id also suggest new spark plugs and a new intercooler. Your IAT is over 150 so im guessing your on the stock intercooler. The duty cycle of your turbos looks about right for stock turbos, but every cars duty cycle varies so thats not the best way to determine if you have upgraded ones or not. It's also possible that they are new oem turbos with low miles that are just working very effeciently. Did you happen to do a vin check? Alot of bmw dealers who tend to report maintence/recalls so if they were replaced under warranty it might show up on the carfax. If anything you'll know what dealers the cars were serviced at and you can give them a call and ask for the repair history priving them with the vin ect...

I had new NGK 97506 spark plugs put into it already. The intercooler is still oem yea and i definitely have to upgrade that too. As for the turbos I'm still not 100% sure they're upgraded but they sure do boost a lot better than the oems on my E92 so i think they might be. At 50% duty cycle I wasn't making more than 12psi at redline while these made 17psi with just 10% more wastegate duty cycle and even easily gets to 20psi in the midrange with half the duty cycle when my E92 topped out at barely 16psi. So that's a good amount more than the for sure oem ones on my old E92. Could be extremely good stock turbos? Idk but I know they pull all the way to redline unlike my old E92's stock turbos felt losing power after 5.5K.

That's a good idea though i should call the shop that worked on the car previously.

[buster84]

Originally Posted by Nero10578

I had new NGK 97506 spark plugs put into it already. The intercooler is still oem yea and i definitely have to upgrade that too. As for the turbos I'm still not 100% sure they're upgraded but they sure do boost a lot better than the oems on my E92 so i think they might be. At 50% duty cycle I wasn't making more than 12psi at redline while these made 17psi with just 10% more wastegate duty cycle and even easily gets to 20psi in the midrange with half the duty cycle when my E92 topped out at barely 16psi. So that's a good amount more than the for sure oem ones on my old E92. Could be extremely good stock turbos? Idk but I know they pull all the way to redline unlike my old E92's stock turbos felt losing power after 5.5K.

That's a good idea though i should call the shop that worked on the car previously.

I have a feeling your e92 turbos were just on their way out, or the wastegate was sticking/rattling.

I found a log that looks similar to yours except its 93 octane.

https://datazap.me/u/buraq/bq93-zill...29&zoom=49-104

original post is located here (https://bmw.spool.street.com/threads...240/post-23344)

Heres another one stock turbo, e50 gas but duty cycle is near yours too.

https://datazap.me/u/ballistic/bmw-n...-4-11-14-22-30

Comparing duty cycle is the least effective way to test the turbos to see if their upgraded, but if you want a simple way to test just visit the dyno once your fueling is up to par. A quick dyno pull on low boost will let you know because upgraded turbos move more air so you'll get more hp at lower boost levels.

[Nero10578]

Originally Posted by buster84

I have a feeling your e92 turbos were just on their way out, or the wastegate was sticking/rattling.

I found a log that looks similar to yours except its 93 octane.

https://datazap.me/u/buraq/bq93-zill...38;zoom=49-104

original post is located here (https://bmw.spool.street.com/threads...240/post-23344)

It should be a red flag that that was on 93 and I'm on straight 91 at higher psi. Also that log is the same as my E92 being 2x wastegate duty cycle of this E90 in the midrange and producing less boost. As well as even higher duty cycle at redline to hit less boost as mine does. I could just have really good stock turbos but all I know is they work fantastic.

[buster84]

Originally Posted by Nero10578

It should be a red flag that that was on 93 and I'm on straight 91 at higher psi. Also that log is the same as my E92 being 2x wastegate duty cycle of this E90 in the midrange and producing less boost. As well as even higher duty cycle at redline to hit less boost as mine does. I could just have really good stock turbos but all I know is they work fantastic.

I'm pretty sure octane has no effect on wgdc (but it does effect timing/hp), but i could be wrong. I thought wgdc is enterly based on the amount of CFM/Boost being pushed into the engine,

The same goes with upgraded outlets/inlets/exhaust. If you have any outlets/inlets/exhaust on your car that you didnt on the last one then your wgdc will be lower because the resistance has been decreased making it easier for air to flow into the engine and out of the engine (less backpressure). Its also possible your e92 has a boost leak that you never knew about or found (or was from sticking wastegates) which also affects the wgdc. If your current car is hitting your target boost without issue then your wgdc will average out, but if you consistantly under target the wgdc will be higher which usually means a small boost leak.

[Nero10578]

Originally Posted by buster84

I'm pretty sure octane has no effect on wgdc (but it does effect timing/hp), but i could be wrong. I thought wgdc is enterly based on the amount of CFM/Boost being pushed into the engine,

The same goes with upgraded outlets/inlets/exhaust. If you have any outlets/inlets/exhaust on your car that you didnt on the last one then your wgdc will be lower because the resistance has been decreased making it easier for air to flow into the engine and out of the engine (less backpressure). Its also possible your e92 has a boost leak that you never knew about or found (or was from sticking wastegates) which also affects the wgdc. If your current car is hitting your target boost without issue then your wgdc will average out, but if you consistantly under target the wgdc will be higher which usually means a small boost leak.

Yes octane doesn't but what i meant was there's no way you can run 20psi on straight 91 with stock turbos as they get much hotter and cause timing issues.

What I'm also saying is every stock turbos pushing similar boost to mine now is always having a lot higher WGDC even though they have mods while my car is still completely stock. As your log link proved. My old E92 was completely stock like my current car is too and that wasn't under target in fact that car was always over target slightly so I'd say the turbos were healthy. The only telltale sign on my car that made me pretty sure they aren't stock is it keeps overboosting way over target and I mean way over target flatlining the psi reading on the ots mhd maps with wgdc made for stockt turbos.
I was thinking it might be just stuck wastegates causing abnormally high boost but if that's the case how come this custom tune can wring out even more boost now?

[buster84]

Originally Posted by Nero10578

Yes octane doesn't but what i meant was there's no way you can run 20psi on straight 91 with stock turbos as they get much hotter and cause timing issues.

What I'm also saying is every stock turbos pushing similar boost to mine now is always having a lot higher WGDC even though they have mods while my car is still completely stock. As your log link proved. My old E92 was completely stock like my current car is too and that wasn't under target in fact that car was always over target slightly so I'd say the turbos were healthy. The only telltale sign on my car that made me pretty sure they aren't stock is it keeps overboosting way over target and I mean way over target flatlining the psi reading on the ots mhd maps with wgdc made for stockt turbos.
I was thinking it might be just stuck wastegates causing abnormally high boost but if that's the case how come this custom tune can wring out even more boost now?

Thats exactly what I'm talking about. No car is alike and the wgdc will always be different because its based on air resistance. If your current car has new turbos, then the likly hood of it having a boost leak is very small; whereas, your car could have had a slight leak for years without ever knowing. The same can be said about doing walnut blasting. If its been done recently you will have less air resistance and the engine will flow better.

When i said the wgdc will stabilize without a boost leak that means it'll be more stable. If you have a boost leak and your under target the ecu will compensate by opening the wastegate more, this in turn causes the car to overboost past the target boost. With small boost leaks you get overboost issues, with large boost leak issues you get underboost issues. The computer can only compensate so much and the ECU will only be able to adapt so much when a boost leak is an unpredictable amount of air leaking can increase/decrease with time.

I also have a feeling your low lpfp is affecting your wastegate duty cycle because the car auto adapts to decrease timing/boost when the fuel pressure is low to prevent the car from self-destruction. Once you replace that lpfp and get your fuel stabilized post a new log because that'll be alot better indicator of your cars performance.

I just noticed that your in CA so my theory about the car having new turbos seems very likely. In CA with all the smog laws they warranty's lasted longer than normal and it was much easier to get parts replaced underwarranty from bmw even with minor problems. I moved out of CA in 2014, but before I left i took my e93 n54 in for an oil change to bmw and airbag recall and they ended up swapping out my injectors for index 12 because the car was missfiring. I also got new spark plugs and this was all for free underwarranty. I thought it was very strange considering I never noticed any missfires or had any codes ever pop up, but maybe they just wanted to get some free labor and replaced stuff that didnt really need replacing, or their scanners picked up something mine didnt.