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      08-09-2023, 07:42 AM   #3499
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Interesting article on lithium-ion batteries and temperature.

https://www.recurrentauto.com/resear...eries-and-heat
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      08-09-2023, 07:57 AM   #3500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcades View Post
Oddly I just had this conversation with my detailer today. His family owns a Model Y Performance, I believe a 2022. They are very careful with charging, usually to 80% to 90% and they have seen their total mileage drop from 280, to 260... 240 and now it sits around 220.

Tesla does have a battery warranty but Tesla (or Musk in particular), exaggerates Tesla's EV range. In fact, they are being sued for it right now for that. I have not seen anyone say the Model S actually reaches 400 claimed miles. Some testers say the Model S can barely 300 let alone 400.

It definitely possible there is an issue with his battery, but the range is also based on driving habits, just like range in an ICE car, if you have a heavy foot or drive on the highway a lot it could affect the range. I have a 2021 with around 20k miles and my range has dropped from 330 to 325. From what Iíve seen, the expected degradation seems to be around 5% the first year and 1% per year after

But yeah the claimed mileage thing is weird. EVs do not like highway speeds at all and will rip through charge much faster than they will around town. From my experience at 35-45mph the estimate is fairly accurate but at highway speeds itís definitely overestimated. I donít do a lot of highway driving though.
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      08-09-2023, 09:13 AM   #3501
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In other news, anyone check out this video? The way the McMurtry F's off at the 8:40 mark is completely ridiculous, it almost looks fake. I dont care if you hate EVs or not, if you say you wouldn't want a chance to drive that thing, or the Rimac, you're lying

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      08-09-2023, 09:39 AM   #3502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fcman View Post
In other news, anyone check out this video? The way the McMurtry F's off at the 8:40 mark is completely ridiculous, it almost looks fake. I dont care if you hate EVs or not, if you say you wouldn't want a chance to drive that thing, or the Rimac, you're lying
I am just going to add this point, I do not think anyone here really 'hates' EV,
EV hater are the lifted diesel truck broskis who intentionally unplug EVs or intentionally deface, ruin EV chargers, or roll coal in front of EV just for shiz and giggles. I'd like to think majority of the people actively posting here have a little more intelligence than that

Most here who do tend to argue against EVs are not haters, I'd say are are skeptical, maybe it doesn't fit their needs, mostly do not agree with how world governments are now actively using tax payer dollars to force the market with zero planning, little consultation, and even understanding that many may not find EV suitable to their needs or meet their particular budget. This is not done for environmental improvements as they claim it is, it is done for political points. To a lesser extent it just forces consumerism as usual.

EVs are just objects, to 'hate' an object you'd have to live a pretty sad life.

Yes, I'd love to have a go at the McMurtry or the Rimac just so i can piss my pants in a car.
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      08-09-2023, 09:53 AM   #3503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyriian View Post
I am just going to add this point, I do not think anyone here really 'hates' EV
Just a bit of hyperbole, I wasn't calling anyone out. Just saying there's no enthusiast out there who could honestly say they would want to drive it (which is still hyperbole )

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      08-09-2023, 10:19 AM   #3504
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      08-09-2023, 10:21 AM   #3505
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I drove an Ioniq 5 and Model 3 yesterday.
I love the exterior design of Ioniq 5, but both leave a lot to be desired for interior. And the build quality is pretty bad.
Tesla drove very nice and the weight of both was very obvious. The acceleration is very deceptive and quick. It was very much a Logitech experience in the driving department.
I can totally see the appeal of them for significant majority of consumers, many of whom don't even know what model of car they just drove to the grocery store.
Some day, I hope a nice 3-series Touring EV comes to market for a reasonable price and I'd take a look at it when it hit a used car market 8-10 years later.

I'm not against EVs, but the whole premise that this will save the planet is very strange to me. It's like all the magic pills to get in shape and lose weight in just two weeks.
The recipe to save polar bears is simple: consume less. Less oil AND lithium. As long as the energy demand goes up we're just hoping from source to source and destroying things along the way. BTW, I'm not an environmentalist. I just hope some common sense wins in the end.
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      08-09-2023, 10:24 AM   #3506
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I'm not anti ev either. I own one. Despite this I know EV alone cannot do what the ICE does ie freedom to go anywhere anytime and anylong hence I've got this little fella to give company to the range limited EV to ensure my needs are met.
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      08-09-2023, 10:37 AM   #3507
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Can't wait to see the pressure applied in determining the cause of fire on car carriers. ("Can't PROVE fire was caused by EV")....Right. Figuring in a billion dollars total cost of losing each ship won't help the push to electric if costs are properly allocated.
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      08-09-2023, 11:14 AM   #3508
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Originally Posted by KRS_SN View Post
I'm not anti ev either. I own one. Despite this I know EV alone cannot do what the ICE does ie freedom to go anywhere anytime and anylong hence I've got this little fella to give company to the range limited EV to ensure my needs are met.
Agreed, I think people have to look at their use case and determine if an EV only garage can meet their needs. That's why I have the M2 on the way to replace my Corvette, rather than an EV.
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      08-09-2023, 11:27 AM   #3509
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I would totally get an EV as second (um... third/fourth car) as my daily routine to for school drop-off is a very short distance and the ICE version barely warms up properly.
But the cost will need to be much lower for me to add one since I wouldn't sell my E91 for one. For example, e-Golf or i3 would be great. But used, they both cost too much.

If I had time, I would definitely get a cheap hatchback and do EV conversion for fun. But I don't have time, nor driveway space.
And I always wondered how does motor vehicle inspection work for EV converted cars around here.
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      08-09-2023, 11:38 AM   #3510
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Originally Posted by eljay View Post
I would totally get an EV as second (um... third/fourth car) as my daily routine to for school drop-off is a very short distance and the ICE version barely warms up properly.
But the cost will need to be much lower for me to add one since I wouldn't sell my E91 for one. For example, e-Golf or i3 would be great. But used, they both cost too much.
Yeah we had a Jetta and the Corvette, and then had a baby so we picked up the Model Y and the Corvette became a weekend toy. Now I'm in the process of consolidating the Corvette and Jetta into the M2, since I dont really have the space for 3 cars.

The best part is you never jump in the car and think "dammit, I need to get gas today before/after school drop off." The car is just always ready to do exactly what you want without any extra stops
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      08-09-2023, 06:06 PM   #3511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fcman View Post
You made the claim, how you decide to provide supporting evidence or proof is up to you. Consumer surveys would be a great start though imo, though sampling BMW owners only would be a flawed methodology
Consumer Reports ok? BMW scores highest of brands that make the best car.

https://reprints.theygsgroup.com/cr/...WhatBrands.pdf
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      08-09-2023, 08:03 PM   #3512
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Originally Posted by Murf the Surf View Post
Consumer Reports ok? BMW scores highest of brands that make the best car.

https://reprints.theygsgroup.com/cr/...WhatBrands.pdf
Oh boy not this again, these are not surveys about car makersí reputation lol.
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      08-09-2023, 11:38 PM   #3513
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Originally Posted by fcman View Post
Oh boy not this again, these are not surveys about car makersí reputation lol.
Is there even such a thing as meeting your standard of proof? Asking for a friend.

Page 2 of the link details how the scores are calculated. Might want to read that part.
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      08-09-2023, 11:58 PM   #3514
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Originally Posted by chad86tsi View Post
Is there even such a thing as meeting your standard of proof? Asking for a friend.

Page 2 of the link details how the scores are calculated. Might want to read that part.
I read it, owner satisfaction is not the same as reputation. Or did I miss the ďreputationĒ metric somewhere in there
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      08-10-2023, 12:03 AM   #3515
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I read it, owner satisfaction is not the same as reputation
And predicted reliability based on actual observed reliability? Wouldn't that be a pretty good measure for the formula when we are discussing reliability? Wouldn't that factor in to owner satisfaction? I mean, it does to me, but I'm not everybody else.
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      08-10-2023, 12:05 AM   #3516
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Originally Posted by chad86tsi View Post
And predicted reliability based on actual observed reliability? Wouldn't that be a pretty good measure for the formula when we are discussing reliability? Wouldn't that factor in to owner satisfaction? I mean, it does to me, but I'm not everybody else.
The statement I asked for evidence of was that BMW has a reputation of reliability or durability. This data doesnít convince me that the average car buyer views BMWs as reliable or long lasting
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      08-10-2023, 12:07 AM   #3517
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The statement I asked for evidence of was that BMW has a reputation of reliability or durability.
Is there even such a thing as meeting your standard of proof? Asking for a friend.
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      08-10-2023, 12:08 AM   #3518
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Originally Posted by chad86tsi View Post
Is there even such a thing as meeting your standard of proof? Asking for a friend.
Yes, show me a study that says the average car consumer views BMWs as being reliable or long lasting, itís very straightforward actually.
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      08-10-2023, 03:18 AM   #3519
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Is there even such a thing as meeting your standard of proof? Asking for a friend.
"Shall it not be validated by the internet, then therefore it cannot be true".

Dumass Googleheim's razor...
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      08-10-2023, 07:18 AM   #3520
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"Shall it not be validated by the internet, then therefore it cannot be true".

Dumass Googleheim's razor...
I think we can get that added to the wiki page
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