[Grip Grip]

I was talking to a guy I know from a local car lot Saturday about a car for my kid. After a few minutes of chatting I ended up offering him some cash to let me attend the next local (Nashville) Manheim auction with him this Tuesday with the understanding that I'd buy the car directly with no markups. Of course I'd be responsible for fees and and undisclosed issues with the car.

Anyway, he was excited about the offer and has already sent me info on the car I'm looking for.

My question is, since I'll be attending as a guest, will I be able to buy the car directly from Manheim (or the seller) or will my dealer friend have to buy it?

What happens next either way?

[kprocivic]

in ca you have to have a dealer license.

[PINeely]

You usually need to be a dealer, or at least have access to a dealer number to purchase. We would usually buy from IAA via their online service then go down, give them the dealer number and pick them all up.

[Grip Grip]

Keep in mind, I'd be going with the dealer that has the documentation with him. I believe he's allowed one non-dealer guest. Does that sound right?

[MrSlacker]

Manheim does not allow non dealers to attend the auction while auction is live. However, a lot of locations don't really enforce it. Every dealer is given a bidder badge that is used while bidding. Most likely your friend will be with you when car will be on the auction block and will bid on your behave.

If you are the lucky winner, a sales slip will print out right away on the auction block (where bidding takes place). It will have winning bid, auction fee and total.

[Grip Grip]

Originally Posted by MrSlacker

Manheim does not allow non dealers to attend the auction while auction is live. However, a lot of locations don't really enforce it. Every dealer is given a bidder badge that is used while bidding. Most likely your friend will be with you when car will be on the auction block and will bid on your behave.
If you are the lucky winner, a sales slip will print out right away on the auction block (where bidding takes place). It will have winning bid, auction fee and total.

I sort of expected he'd be bidding on my behalf once I tell him my max bid. After the car is won, do you think they care who pays for the car? Will I be allowed to pay and have the title sent to me?

[stevenc]

Manheim is a dealers only auction. You will be responsible for somehow paying sales tax and registration. Manheim doesn't process title with the state that will be your problem. Manheim will likely hand you the title when you pay. They might care who pays for the car.

Your best bet is to let the dealer buy the car and process title for you and you give him $500 for his efforts.

[Maestro]

I have done this in the past. Friend of the family used to have a used car business, and he would allow us to go to the auto auction in our area with him. We would pick out the car but he was the one to bid on the car and was the one who was allow to remove the car from the auction. Our cover was we were there as his drivers for the cars he bought. He would process the title transfer and such and we would pay him cash and a little extra for his effort.

You need to know what you are doing, there are good cars there, but lots of junk, cars are put up for auction for lots of reasons one of which the car has too many issues to deal with. At least to day you can do a VIN check and see if the car has a bad history. When I use to do this, it was before smart phones and such and we knew what we were getting into and cars back in the day were much cheaper to fix.

[Grip Grip]

Originally Posted by stevenc

Manheim is a dealers only auction. You will then be responsible for sales tax and registration. Manheim doesn't process title with the state that will be your problem. Manheim will likely hand you the title when you pay. They might care who pays for the car.

Your best bet is to let the dealer buy the car and process title for you and you give him $500 for his efforts.

That sounds a lot better. I was under the impression that the title wouldn't be onsite. If I can just write a check (assuming that's an allowed form of payment) for car, fees, and taxes and leave with title in hand I'd be ecstatic. I'd then just head to the county clerk with my receipt for the sales tax I'd already paid and title to have it switched over. I already have a tag from the BMW my wife didn't want. I plan on giving the guy a few hundred for taking me.

I don't have a close enough relationship with this guy to pay for the car and let him hold the title though.

Originally Posted by Maestro

I have done this in the past. Friend of the family used to have a used car business, and he would allow us to go to the auto auction in our area with him. We would pick out the car but he was the one to bid on the car and was the one who was allow to remove the car from the auction. Our cover was we were there as his drives of the cars he bought. He would process the title transfer and such and we would pay him cash and a little extra for his effort.

You need to know what you are doing, there are good cars there, but lots of junk, cars are put up for auction for lots of reasons one of which the car has too many issues to deal with. At least to day you can do a VIN check and see if the car has a bad history. When I use to do this, it was before smart phones and such and we knew what we were getting into and cars back in the day were much cheaper to fix.

The car I'm looking at has a condition rating of 3.9 out of 5 per Manheim. I ran the carfax over the weekend and the car has no glaring issues and a clear title with what appears to be legitimate low mileage.

[stevenc]

^ YOU WONT PAY SALES TAXES. DEALERS DONT PAY SALES TAXES IN DEALER TO DEALER TRANSFERS (DEALER ONLY AUCTIONS).

You will get the original title from the auction still in the name of the old owner. You should then have your dealer process the sale to you with the state to transfer title and to pay the sales taxes.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by Grip Grip

The car I'm looking at has a condition rating of 3.9 out of 5 per Manheim. I ran the carfax over the weekend and the car has no glaring issues and a clear title with what appears to be legitimate low mileage.

You seem to have done your research, you do know that carfax report does not always show everything. If it say the car was wrecked you can be pretty sure it was, but just be cause it says it is clean does not mean it is in fact clean. I had a car which I know had issues some which were caused by me and I ran a carfax report and it did not show the accident I had with the car. Not sure why since I did turn it into insurance.

To give you another example, a friend was looking at a Z4, the dealer claimed it was a 2011 but build date was 4/2010. Ran two different VIN reports on the car and one said it was a 2011 and the other said it was 2010. The dealer kept claiming it was a 2011, why it mean the value was $2000 more to them. Problem was in 2011 BMW change the engine more HP, but the dealer could not prove it was in fact a 2011, they try to say the 2011 model year came out in 4/2010. Also one of the VIN reports claim it was manual and the other claim and auto. The Dealer said it was SMG so it was like an manual so that is why the VIM report said it was Manual. Needless to say lots of confusion about this car so my friend passed on it.

Good luck with the auction, you can definitely save lots of money buying at auction, I have in the past.

[Naz24]

Originally Posted by Grip Grip

That sounds a lot better. I was under the impression that the title wouldn't be onsite. If I can just write a check (assuming that's an allowed form of payment) for car, fees, and taxes and leave with title in hand I'd be ecstatic. I'd then just head to the county clerk with my receipt for the sales tax I'd already paid and title to have it switched over. I already have a tag from the BMW my wife didn't want. I plan on giving the guy a few hundred for taking me.

I don't have a close enough relationship with this guy to pay for the car and let him hold the title though.



The car I'm looking at has a condition rating of 3.9 out of 5 per Manheim. I ran the carfax over the weekend and the car has no glaring issues and a clear title with what appears to be legitimate low mileage.

You have a few hours after the auction to diligence the vehicle (if it was a green light--no problems vehicle). You may also pay a mechanic to go over it after the auction. If a problem comes up you do not need to take the car. Might be worth the piece of mind.

Btw, what kind of car are you looking at? This actually matters...

[Grip Grip]

Originally Posted by stevenc

^ YOU WONT PAY SALES TAXES. DEALERS DONT PAY SALES TAXES IN DEALER TO DEALER TRANSFERS (DEALER ONLY AUCTIONS).

You will get the original title from the auction still in the name of the old owner. You should then have your dealer process the sale to you with the state to transfer title and to pay the sales taxes.

10-4, thanks

Originally Posted by Maestro

You seem to have done your research, you do know that carfax report does not always show everything. If it say the car was wrecked you can be pretty sure it was, but just be cause it says it is clean does not mean it is in fact clean. I had a car which I know had issues some which were caused by me and I ran a carfax report and it did not show the accident I had with the car. Not sure why since I did turn it into insurance.

To give you another example, a friend was looking at a Z4, the dealer claimed it was a 2011 but build date was 4/2010. Ran two different VIN reports on the car and one said it was a 2011 and the other said it was 2010. The dealer kept claiming it was a 2011, why it mean the value was $2000 more to them. Problem was in 2011 BMW change the engine more HP, but the dealer could not prove it was in fact a 2011, they try to say the 2011 model year came out in 4/2010. Also one of the VIN reports claim it was manual and the other claim and auto. The Dealer said it was SMG so it was like an manual so that is why the VIM report said it was Manual. Needless to say lots of confusion about this car so my friend passed on it.

Good luck with the auction, you can definitely save lots of money buying at auction, I have in the past.

Thanks. Hopefully this doesn't turn out bad.

Originally Posted by Naz24

You have a few hours after the auction to diligence the vehicle (if it was a green light--no problems vehicle). You may also pay a mechanic to go over it after the auction. If a problem comes up you do not need to take the car. Might be worth the piece of mind.

Btw, what kind of car are you looking at? This actually matters...

Thanks. I just found out the Scion XB is no longer listed for sale, so I'm looking to get an '08 or newer automatic Honda Civic, Kia Soul, or Ford Fiesta. I'm not looking to break the bank, since this is for a soon to be 15 y/o girl. I don't expect this car to make if 6 months without an oops, so I definitely don't want anything too nice. I was thinking 5K would be a good price to spend on a starter car.

[Naz24]

Originally Posted by Grip Grip

10-4, thanks



Thanks. Hopefully this doesn't turn out bad.



Thanks. I just found out the Scion XB is no longer listed for sale, so I'm looking to get an '08 or newer automatic Honda Civic, Kia Soul, or Ford Fiesta. I'm not looking to break the bank, since this is for a soon to be 15 y/o girl. I don't expect this car to make if 6 months without an oops, so I definitely don't want anything too nice. I was thinking 5K would be a good price to spend on a starter car.

Great, because buying a BMW or other high end car can be a bit dodgy at an auction. The civic should be fine. If the dealer is knowledgeable enough, he should be able to tell if there is previous paint work just by running his hands on the seams. I've used a paint thickness meter before, he probably has one.....

[MrSlacker]

Manheim cares very much who pays for the car. Only way for them not to care if for you to pay cash. Any check must be from the dealership that purchased they car.

The title WILL be in his name. He then will sell you the car. If the car is sold "Title Here," seller will have until 5PM to hand it in to the auction. if car is sold "Title Absent or T/A" dealer has 21 days to hand in the title to the auction.

Manheim is a DEALER ONLY auction. They do everything they can to prevent exactly what you are doing. Otherwise everyone would go to Manheim to buy personal cars.

[Grip Grip]

Originally Posted by Naz24

Great, because buying a BMW or other high end car can be a bit dodgy at an auction. The civic should be fine. If the dealer is knowledgeable enough, he should be able to tell if there is previous paint work just by running his hands on the seams. I've used a paint thickness meter before, he probably has one.....

The dealer allowed me to browse the cars on his computer today, and I wasn't really all that impressed with the prices versus private party off CL based on the MMR's. It was nice to have the detailed explanation and photos of the issues via the damage summary. I wasn't expecting it to be so comprehensive.

Originally Posted by MrSlacker

Manheim cares very much who pays for the car. Only way for them not to care if for you to pay cash. Any check must be from the dealership that purchased they car.

The title WILL be in his name. He then will sell you the car. If the car is sold "Title Here," seller will have until 5PM to hand it in to the auction. if car is sold "Title Absent or T/A" dealer has 21 days to hand in the title to the auction.

Manheim is a DEALER ONLY auction. They do everything they can to prevent exactly what you are doing. Otherwise everyone would go to Manheim to buy personal cars.

I think it will be fairly above board since the dealer will take possession of the car at the auction. I'll then buy it from him once we return from the auction, but I might have to wait for the title. He's got a guaranteed profit and no inventory to hold. I just have to find the right car, and I don't know that I did that today. There is around 1K cars there tomorrow, and not many are in the price range I'm comfortable with.

There is a nice SL600 bi-turbo selling there tomorrow with a 3.7 grade, but that would be for me. I miss my CL65.

[MrSlacker]

Originally Posted by Grip Grip

The dealer allowed me to browse the cars on his computer today, and I wasn't really all that impressed with the prices versus private party off CL based on the MMR's. It was nice to have the detailed explanation and photos of the issues via the damage summary. I wasn't expecting it to be so comprehensive.




I think it will be fairly above board since the dealer will take possession of the car at the auction. I'll then buy it from him once we return from the auction, but I might have to wait for the title. He's got a guaranteed profit and no inventory to hold. I just have to find the right car, and I don't know that I did that today. There is around 1K cars there tomorrow, and not many are in the price range I'm comfortable with.

There is a nice SL600 bi-turbo selling there tomorrow with a 3.7 grade, but that would be for me. I miss my CL65.

A $5000 car is better purchased on CL honestly. 08+ cars can be financed through sub prime lending so dealers pay $$ for them. You will not get an 08 Civic for anywhere close to your budget unless it has 200K miles.

[sonic1]

Probably better off buying off CL unless it's a car above 15-20k. Better to buy a car where you can speak to the previous owner and have it thoroughly inspected before purchasing. There aren't huge margins in the used car business to begin with, important to set your savings expectations accordingly.

[Grip Grip]

Slim pickings today, and all the buy here pay here guys seemed to be running up the prices of the cheap 5K cars. I still managed to snap up an '11 Nissan Sentra with 130K for $3,700. It's in very good shape with only minor reconditioning needed. Should make a nice daily for my kids when she turns 15 next month.

Thank you all very much for your input, as I feel it really helped me have realistic expectations today.

By the way, the '05 Mercedes SL600 sold for 15K. Those cars are going for close to double that on the interwebs.

[Maestro]

Not a bad deal for $3700, so how did the deal close out for you, if you do not mind sharing.

[Grip Grip]

Originally Posted by Maestro

Not a bad deal for $3700, so how did the deal close out for you, if you do not mind sharing.

I don't follow. Are you asking for financial specifics in regards to auction and dealer fees, or are you asking about the logistics of closing the deal?

I'm not going to post financial info, but I'll happily provide the info through a PM.

Basically I picked the car out and the max bid with the dealer doing the bidding. We won the car and he signed the paperwork. He gave me his copy and I drove the car to the security gate. I handed security the paperwork and they checked the trunk. After a minute or two I was on my way to the dealership.

Once there the dealer sold me the car like any other car on his lot, except I had to pay the fee (under the table) for attending and picking out the car. I drove off with a temp tag, and he'll mail me the title once it arrives.

That's all there was to it. I'll report back once I buy one to flip.

[mazharracer]

I have a dealer license and I do this. If my friend or someone I know wants to get a car i take them in as my driver and they pick the car they want and i charge them $500 fee plus all the Mannheim fees/title transfer fee/state tax....The only thing i would suggest u next time u go with him is u download the Mannheim app and let him sign in with his account and u get free car fax doesn't give u full detail but tells u the owners, accidents...another tip Mannheim is a little exp auction look for local auction u usually find cheaper cars that u can flip