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      08-30-2016, 02:25 PM   #1
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Best performance all season tire?

Hey guys, need new tires for a new set of wheels. Which ultra high performance all seasons do you guys use? Thanks
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      08-30-2016, 03:03 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubersmooth View Post
Hey guys, need new tires for a new set of wheels. Which ultra high performance all seasons do you guys use? Thanks
The COntinental DWS and Michelin Pilot AS3 seem to be tires of choice (for go-flats). I'll probably get AS3 when my PS2 zp wear out, my son is having excellent luck with his.
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      08-30-2016, 03:11 PM   #3
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BFGoodrich G-force comp 2 a/s
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      08-30-2016, 03:51 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by the dope steez
BFGoodrich G-force comp 2 a/s
These are my top choice but they've been on backorder for over a month now in my size.
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      08-30-2016, 05:23 PM   #5
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These are my top choice but they've been on backorder for over a month now in my size.
Haha i've got a nearly new set for sale if you're putting them on 17s!
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      08-30-2016, 08:01 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the dope steez
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubersmooth View Post
These are my top choice but they've been on backorder for over a month now in my size.
Haha i've got a nearly new set for sale if you're putting them on 17s!
I wish! Got a set of 219m's. Sometimes I wish I picked up a set of 17" apex wheels after seeing how cheap 17" tires are.
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      08-30-2016, 08:30 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
The COntinental DWS and Michelin Pilot AS3 seem to be tires of choice (for go-flats). I'll probably get AS3 when my PS2 zp wear out, my son is having excellent luck with his.
+1
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      08-30-2016, 08:37 PM   #8
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AS3+

DWS 06 are good tire on straights, but in corners and predictability they are not even in the same category as A/S3+
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      08-31-2016, 06:52 AM   #9
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I've been doing a lot of research in this category, as I'm about to get new tires.

The Michelin does very well from a dry and wet performance aspect, but it seems to be a bit noisy and ill-mannered, and the snow performance isn't so great.

The Continental does very well in snow, but the dry performance isn't quite as good.

The BFGoodrich does very well in dry, wet and snow (for an UHPAS). It has good road manners, too (not too jarring, low road noise). I'm going with this one, and BFG has a $50 gift card rebate right now through mid-September.

Couple of downsides to the BFGoodrich, it seems to be slightly heavier than other top UHPAS tires, not like run flat heavy, but just marginally heavier. Tread also seems a bit wider, which could explain some of the weight. New tread depth is also 9/32 rather than standard 10/32 for this category.

(Sorry, I just saw your comment that it's unavailable in your size.)

Depending on budget and priorities (good ride, snow traction, etc) you might also want to look at the Dunlop Signature HP and the Kumho Ecsta 4X II. These can both be had cheaper than the others. The Dunlop gives up a little bit in extreme performance, but has good manners. The Kumho doesn't do as well in snow, but it's quite inexpensive, and the dry performance is solid.
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      08-31-2016, 07:06 AM   #10
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A/S 3s tend to be a little stiff too as well as noisy, but excellent control and wet traction.
Totally confidence inspiring.
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      08-31-2016, 07:58 AM   #11
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Continental DWS should be sold with a warning stating that steering response, weight, and accuracy WILL BE DIMINISHED!!!!
They are quiet, smooth, long wearing, grip well in dry and damn good in the wet. Their snow traction is good too.

But the way they soften the steering feel is just shy of criminal.
Right away, the steering effort is MUCH reduced with this tire. It takes a lot less effort to turn the steering wheel with DWS. It feels as if
someone turned up the boost on the power steering pump. Additionally, it takes MORE steering input to negotiate the same turns. You have to turn the
wheel more for the same amount of turning from the car. This is noticeable, even at parking lot speeds, and gets worse as speeds increase. The effect
is that of a slower steering ratio. Also, even though the tires ultimately have very good grip, cornering above 8/10ths is done with relatively large slip angles.
Those sidewalls are soft. So soft that a keen driver will also detect an increase in body roll, as the sidewall flexes during brisk cornering. Those same soft sidewalls
also contribute to MORE vertical bouncing of the front and rear suspension over certain surfaces.

DWS is a nice tire for an average driver. A non enthusiast may never notice any of these deficiencies. They may slip past an enthusiast too, if they didn't know to attribute the
softening to the tires. DWS are an excellent way to shave away a sizeable amount of BMW feel and throw it in the trash. Depending on your stance, that can bee good and/or bad.
Tired of harsh BMW suspension? DWS to the rescue! Steering to weighty? DWS! Steering too quick/darty? DWS! But be warned, response, precision, and accuracy will suffer dramatically.
The stiffer your suspension, the more this effect will be evident.

More... many of these effects can be reduced by upping the tire pressure a bit. DWS at low pressures are steered by water pockets and can jerk the steering wheel on the road when wet. More psi eliminates this. It can also boost steering response a bit. More psi will also increase the ride stability/solidity some. Adding more pressure at the front on DWS also reduces the steering weight even further.

Moving on...
I tried the BFG Comp 2 AS too. They were MUCH nicer than the DWS. The ride was equally smooth, but had a sense of solidity too. The steering was firm, linear, and weighty. These tires were uber quiet.
The only notable noise was a grippy squishy sound as the tire rolled along the pavement. It sounded like the tire was sticky. Almost a low quiet version of the sound that your sneakers would make on a
freshly waxed tile floor. This sound was quiet, and only noticeable at low speeds with the windows down. Not objectionable at all, just something I noticed. These tires also run wide, unlike the DWS that are slim for their given size. This gives you an aggressive look to the tire/wheel combo a la PSS. There is also good curb protection as the rim is recessed into the wheel a bit more than usual.
Unfortunately, my Comp 2 AS were unmounted and returned to TireRack because they failed to balance. Firestone nor my local BMW dealership could get them to balance up. I don't know if this is more indicative of BFG quality, or ineptitude on the part of my local technicians. I was interested in the snow performance of the BFGs as I suspected they would trump the DWS performance. I never did get to find out because I sent them back for the balance issues.

Another note, DWS have a tendency to flatspot over night. The tire deforms a bit under the weight of the car while parked over night. This results in the first mile or 2 of subsequent drives to have a bit of vibration until the tire heats up and returns to its normal shape. Some people experience this, some don't. But it is common with the DWS per Google search. The BFG Comp 2 AS did not suffer this occurrence in my hands.

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      08-31-2016, 08:47 AM   #12
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Always had good experience with Goodyear Eagle Asymmetric 2 and the newer Asymmetric 3 in all conditions.... mostly rain though...
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      08-31-2016, 08:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thakid22 View Post
Continental DWS should be sold with a warning stating that steering response, weight, and accuracy WILL BE DIMINISHED!!!!
...
I assume you're talking about the DWS (as stated) and not the DWS 06 revision? My understanding is that Conti has addressed some of those issues in the DWS 06.

Regarding your BFGoodrich balance issue, I wonder how common it is to have tires that simply fail to balance, despite all best efforts. I assume it was all four tires? Hard to dismiss if that was the case (unless perhaps just a bad batch). Did TireRack acknowledge or address the issue, aside from doing the exchange?
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      08-31-2016, 09:50 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vautrain View Post
I assume you're talking about the DWS (as stated) and not the DWS 06 revision? My understanding is that Conti has addressed some of those issues in the DWS 06.

Regarding your BFGoodrich balance issue, I wonder how common it is to have tires that simply fail to balance, despite all best efforts. I assume it was all four tires? Hard to dismiss if that was the case (unless perhaps just a bad batch). Did TireRack acknowledge or address the issue, aside from doing the exchange?
DWS 06 (the new one) feels the same.

I had DWS 06 for about a week. Steering response was so horrible I returned them. Losing hundred $ was worth it, just to get rid of them.
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      08-31-2016, 12:50 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by W37V View Post
DWS 06 (the new one) feels the same.

I had DWS 06 for about a week. Steering response was so horrible I returned them. Losing hundred $ was worth it, just to get rid of them.
Good to know, I'll take them off my list, but I've pretty much 100% decided to go with the BFGoodrich at this point, anyway.
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      08-31-2016, 01:18 PM   #16
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I go for RE760 Sport. Not bad performance and good price
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      08-31-2016, 05:39 PM   #17
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I'm no fan of UHP all-season tires. They're not really good enough for winters here in Wisconsin so I go for summer tires when the weather's good and winters when it's not.

My car came with Pilot Sport A/S 3s on it when I bought it in May, and I promptly replaced them with 19s with summer tires. My stock 18" 193Ms will be getting snow tires soon.

But, if you want another tire to consider, check out the General G-MAX AS-03. It's not quite the equal of the BFG Comp-2 A/S but it at least is somewhat similar and is also sorta competent in the winter.
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      08-31-2016, 06:27 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vautrain View Post
I assume you're talking about the DWS (as stated) and not the DWS 06 revision? My understanding is that Conti has addressed some of those issues in the DWS 06.

Regarding your BFGoodrich balance issue, I wonder how common it is to have tires that simply fail to balance, despite all best efforts. I assume it was all four tires? Hard to dismiss if that was the case (unless perhaps just a bad batch). Did TireRack acknowledge or address the issue, aside from doing the exchange?
I have yet to try the DWS06. Like you, I have read the reports stating that the sidewall has been stiffened a bit alleviating some of the issues I mentioned. Considering that the Ultra High Performance DW Summer tire is also a bit soft, I'm not confident that even the new 06 will be stiff enough. But again, I haven't tried them.

It is not unheard of for a tire to not be able to be balanced. However on my BFGs, all four of the tires vibrated. Mind you, my sport package wheels have two different tire sizes for front vs rear. This means the tires came from at least two different manufacturing batches.
This would indicate either very bad quality control at BFG or just a lack of care on the part of the installers.

I went in detail about the merits of the BFG because, absent the balance issue (which may very well have originated from the mount/balance technician, rather than the tire itself) the tire seemed an all around upgrade to the DWS at a very similar price.

I never followed up with TireRack on the tires. I told them I didn't like them due tyo the balance. They sent me shipping labels and a UPS guy to retrieve the tires. Once they got the tires back they immediately refunded my purchase price. TireRack has a 30day test drive on most tires. You can send those back, even if you just don't like them. I never asked TireRack what was wrong with those tires.
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      08-31-2016, 06:35 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlasM View Post
I'm no fan of UHP all-season tires. They're not really good enough for winters here in Wisconsin so I go for summer tires when the weather's good and winters when it's not.

My car came with Pilot Sport A/S 3s on it when I bought it in May, and I promptly replaced them with 19s with summer tires. My stock 18" 193Ms will be getting snow tires soon.

But, if you want another tire to consider, check out the General G-MAX AS-03. It's not quite the equal of the BFG Comp-2 A/S but it at least is somewhat similar and is also sorta competent in the winter.
I have heard good things about the GMax AS03 from general. My brother has them on his G35. They feel quite sporty. However, there are numerous reports that they make noise as they wear. Loud noises! Like mud truck tires or bad wheel bearings. Sure enough, my brothers car does have a roaring wheel bearing type sound that increases with speed. We replaced one wheel bearing on that car, the sound is still there. Writing this now, it just came to mind all of the General Gmax noise complaints. I'm curious if the GMax are causing my brothers G35 noise. I'll check next time I'm under his car, and report back with what I find.
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      08-31-2016, 10:58 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlasM View Post
I'm no fan of UHP all-season tires. They're not really good enough for winters here in Wisconsin so I go for summer tires when the weather's good and winters when it's not.

My car came with Pilot Sport A/S 3s on it when I bought it in May, and I promptly replaced them with 19s with summer tires. My stock 18" 193Ms will be getting snow tires soon.

But, if you want another tire to consider, check out the General G-MAX AS-03. It's not quite the equal of the BFG Comp-2 A/S but it at least is somewhat similar and is also sorta competent in the winter.
Depends a lot on where you drive. The winters aren't that much better around Chicago, but the streets are kept pretty clear almost all the time. If there was that much snow on the roads, I'm not sure my E91 would have enough clearance to handle it, anyway, regardless of the tire. Though I do remember my E60 xDrive handled some pretty serious snow after a big storm like a champ, and I don't recall what kind of all-season tires it had, but they were nothing special (maybe they were RFT, for all I remember). Anyway, it's just a calculated risk. If I were living or driving regularly in a less urban area, I'd almost certainly go for dedicated winter tires. And I might after this season, depending on how it goes.
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      09-01-2016, 09:26 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thakid22 View Post
It is not unheard of for a tire to not be able to be balanced. However on my BFGs, all four of the tires vibrated.
That's unfortunate...I was thinking of going with the BFGs after my current DWSs wore out. I had similar balancing issues with these DWS tires too though; it took me having to go through 7 different tires before I found a set of 4 that didn't vibrate.

What road force numbers were you getting from the BFGs? I found that anything over 9 lbs of road force causes noticeable vibration.
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      09-01-2016, 11:41 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FCobra94 View Post
That's unfortunate...I was thinking of going with the BFGs after my current DWSs wore out. I had similar balancing issues with these DWS tires too though; it took me having to go through 7 different tires before I found a set of 4 that didn't vibrate.

What road force numbers were you getting from the BFGs? I found that anything over 9 lbs of road force causes noticeable vibration.
I did not go so far as to request the rf #'s from the techs. I assumed they had balanced the tires as good as they were able and/or willing to do. Instead of further hassle, I just chose another tire as I still had tire warranty.

You are spot on in your observation that road force numbers of 9+ will result in less than desirable results. Back in the day, my Honda techs had phenomenal success at reducing the road force # by repositioning the tire on the wheel. They would match the high spot of the tire, with the low spot of the wheel. (High/Low referring to heavy/light) This lead to a closer natural balance of the tire/wheel assembly. So much so, that the wheels required little or in a few cases no weights in order to balance successfully.

In fact, most new tires come with a red/yellow/green/orange/blue or white dot somewhere along the face of the sidewall. The manufacturer applies this mark to indicate the heavy portion of the tire. For easy balancing, this should be aligned with the low spot on the wheel. Prior to TPMS this was usually near the valvestem hole on the wheel. I don't know if the additional weight of tmps sensors change this or not... In any event, the wheel can be spun on the balance machine without the tire mounted to find the wheels light spot.

Tire balance is not rocket science. Vibration stems from only a few sources...
Bad wheels
Bad Tires
Bad Suspension components
And the most common, bad technicians.

Sucks to hear about your DWS needing to be replaced so many times in order to get a good set. I have them on my 535i and on my mothers 535i as well. Here, they balanced up very nicely on the first set on the first try.

I can't recall the source, but I recall reading a study stating Michelin tires were delivered with with the fewest # of manufacturer defects. This coincides with what I have experienced in my automotive lifetime. In that study, they stood far beyond the next closest competitor. Dunlop and Continental were below average, even though I have good luck with those brands. I'll dig around and see if I can find that report, though it must be 3+ years old by now...


What's more is that there appears to be quality "grades" of each particular tire. Each tire is measured and tested for design integrity after it is made and assigned the quality grade. The top grade supposedly goes to Car manufacturer assembly plants (BMW, Honda, Gm, etc).
Retailers and resellers are said to receive a lower quality or grade. And I remember hearing of tiers within the retailers too. This may or may not be true, I'll look for my reference here too.
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