[kOncept]

If my car is FBO (w/ JB4) and I want to run E20/E30 occasionally.

Should I run one of the BMS Backend flashes along with JB4 Map 5?
OR would I be better off running Map 5 alone?

From what I understand the car runs a little lean at low rpm when using a piggyback alone, I was hoping a flash could also fix this issue while giving me more POWER!

What do you guys think? To flash or not to flash?

[Socket]

Originally Posted by kOncept

If my car is FBO (w/ JB4) and I want to run E20/E30 occasionally.

Should I run one of the BMS Backend flashes along with JB4 Map 5?
OR would I be better off running Map 5 alone?

From what I understand the car runs a little lean at low rpm when using a piggyback alone, I was hoping a flash could also fix this issue while giving me more POWER!

What do you guys think? To flash or not to flash?

Flash IMO

[Scotty89]

You should do some logs with your current mix and post them on n54tech.com forums.

They will tell you what you should be doing, without just guessing.

[waterbottle1]

This is exactly what i had been thinking the last few months!

I was told by a fellow member
The better option for people who wanna go on and off e85 should get cobb instead. And use the cobb ots map. And then when you wanna just use 98pump just switch tunes with the acessport instead of the whole process of flashing/re flashing via pc.

Or just reduce e85 % and use map5 on jb4. 20l Works fine for me with upgraded lpfp. Anything more than that i get too lean at low rpm also .

[kOncept]

Originally Posted by waterbottle1

This is exactly what i had been thinking the last few months!

I was told by a fellow member
The better option for people who wanna go on and off e85 should get cobb instead. And use the cobb ots map. And then when you wanna just use 98pump just switch tunes with the acessport instead of the whole process of flashing/re flashing via pc.

Or just reduce e85 % and use map5 on jb4. 20l Works fine for me with upgraded lpfp. Anything more than that i get too lean at low rpm also .

which lpfp did you upgrade to? I was thinking Walbro 450 but I need to find a workshop in Brisbane I can trust to do the job right...

[kOncept]

Originally Posted by Scotty89

You should do some logs with your current mix and post them on n54tech.com forums.

They will tell you what you should be doing, without just guessing.

Yeah I'll try to get some logs but my driveway is just a little too short for a full 3rd gear pull... I'll see what I can do

[Brule]

Definitely flash.

Pump flash would be suitable for your e20-30 mixes.

When you have a back end flash you can run the flash only which gives you more torque down low then map 1,2, and 5. Map 5 might have a little more top end hp but the flash only was more consistent and more torque than any map. excluding map 7 or 3 which requires more octane.

Back end flash run perfect in Australian cars but you will get a engine light and codes for emissions that is not compatible with the flash. You need someone to change it in tunerpro.

[kOncept]

So you recommend running pump flash alone without JB4 at all.
Would this be the same as leaving the JB4 in Map 0 with the backend flash?
I was under the impression that the backend flash was designed to be used with JB4 maps.

Would the pump flash take advantage of using E20-30 mixes and produce more power than running straight 98?

[Brule]

No, run the jb4.

you can make the jb4 run the flash only by using the jb4 in certain menus. different to map 0.

Not more power but more torque on just 98.

E30 on map 5 will make more power with or without the flash.

With the flash you will be able to try race flash on E30 on map 1 or 2 might make more power if its enough octane.

I tried race flash with stock turbos and RB's on 98 and it was too aggressive.

The flash allows the car to make more torque than jb4 can make by itself.

Definitely leave your jb4 in!

[Brule]

Do you have a BT cable?

[Scotty89]

I thought the race map (map 7) required 60% e85, upgraded LPFP plus the flash??

[waterbottle1]

Yep i got stage2 pump from stev on fuelit

And its easy easy to install. Pretty much follow the instructions step by step and ull be fine.


And have a look on this
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=650353

[Brule]

Map 7 , flash or no flash requires 100 octane race fuel or equivalent e85 to 100 octane. Race flash then makes each jb4 map 1,2,3,7 more aggressive, one step aggressive again for the e85 flash.

[kOncept]

Not yet, the BT cable will arrive next week. I'll try to run some logs with pump flash + map 5.

I saw the stage 2 fuel it kit but think it's a little pricey considering you can get the pump and install kit for ~200AUD shipped.
Which leaves ~500AUD for labour from a reputable raceshop which will include local support if needed.

[lemonpark]

has anyone here done the inline LPFP upgrade, something about adding a Walbro pump, saw it on the american forum. apparently you should do that once you want to go around 50/50 E85 to prevent the LPFP from breaking.

I'm on E85 now, around 20-30% with the BMS Pump Backend flash, but TBH I don't even know if its working. Do I just need to use my usb cable and check that the JB4 is set to JB4+Flash or something like that? Then does that mean it works on every map? or is it just map0?

When I was having issues with my car I set it to map0 for a while and i SWEAR it was pulling harder than map4 which should both be stock boost right?

Right now car is on map5 because of the E85, used to leave it in map2 with BP 98.

[Brule]

Yea check the right box on jb4 interface.

You can feel low torque difference pretty easy between flash and jb4 only.

All bms flashs were updated 2 weeks ago and map 5 is being revised currently.

[Scotty89]

Originally Posted by Brule

Yea check the right box on jb4 interface.

You can feel low torque difference pretty easy between flash and jb4 only.

All bms flashs were updated 2 weeks ago and map 5 is being revised currently.

Brule Can you please guide me - I've never worried about flashing as I don't plan to run high ethanol content, but a few of your comments have contradicted what I previously believed to be the purpose of the back end flash.

I've since been reading a bit about the back end flashing on n54tech.com and I'm still a little confused.

So far I understand that flashing with Burger Motorsport maps for use with JB4 it will:

• Extend the "valid" fuel trim range in the ECU, allowing the fuel pumps to flow more without identifying the added fuel as an error and throwing a code.
• Replace the OEM DME ignition timing + VANOS maps with those of Burger Motorsports map for more power and torque
• Allows for more power by using higher ethanol mixes only made possible due to the above two points

What I don't understand is (and this might be why you're saying it makes each current map more aggressive after the flash)...

1. Once flashed for E85, does this mean I cannot run straight 98 anymore - I must ALWAYS fill up with E85 after flashing?
2. As the flash is targeting more aggressive timing / VANOS and AFR's - does this mean I can just back down to less aggressive maps (say map 1 instead of 2) to run 98 octane?
3. If the flash permanently changes the OEM ECU maps - can I still run the min 95oct when the JB4 is bypassed (map 0)? Or will the ECU continue to aim for lot's of timing and therefore throw error codes (or damage!) on lower octane?
4. Are ALL of the original fail-safes still intact within the ECU, even after altering the parameters/targets? Can I still count on the engine to be safe on any fuel under all conditions?
5. What if I fill up with only 98, continuing to run the E85 flash...? Will it limp mode, or just run poorly trying hit E85 targets, or will it go bang?

[_ink]

Originally Posted by Scotty89

What I don't understand is (and this might be why you're saying it makes each current map more aggressive after the flash)...

• Once flashed for E85, does this mean I cannot run straight 98 anymore - I must ALWAYS fill up with E85 after flashing?
  
  You can still run 98 only, however drive moderately without any WOT pulls until e85 is mixed back into the tank
  
  
• As the flash is targeting more aggressive timing / VANOS and AFR's - does this mean I can just back down to less aggressive maps (say map 1 instead of 2) to run 98 octane?
  
  You would need to log on each JB4 map you want to use after the flash to determine which has the car in the most optimal ranges
  
  
• If the flash permanently changes the OEM ECU maps - can I still run the min 95oct when the JB4 is bypassed (map 0)? Or will the ECU continue to aim for lot's of timing and therefore throw error codes (or damage!) on lower octane?
  
  I would never run 95 on a turbo'd vehicle, Period. However in desperate situations, you would be able to but as mentioned above, drive very moderately. (95 would still be highly not advised)
  
  
• Are ALL of the original fail-safes still intact within the ECU, even after altering the parameters/targets? Can I still count on the engine to be safe on any fuel under all conditions?
  
  
  Yes
  
  

Comments in red.

[Scotty89]

Originally Posted by _ink

Yes

Cheers!

So maybe instead of getting the e85 back end flash - I should opt for the pump gas flash instead?

Is it worth me getting the pump gas flash if I run 98 mainly, and E25 every other fill up?? Will the torque gains that Brule speaks of still be noticeable using the pump gas flash instead?

I was pretty stoked with the car on E25 (with just JB4, no flash), I just wish it was more consistent. Sometimes it feels incredible, other times not so much.

I have never run 95 in the car, but I noticed it says on the fuel filler cap that minimum is 95.
So I was just wondering whether I'd have issues if I was to take my bolt-on parts off the car if I were to sell it, but still leave the flash in... I assume it requires the JB4 anyway?

[_ink]

If e85 is only used every other fill up, i would stick to the pump flash.

Remember the 95 minimum requirement from the OEM is based on stock tune, which is not aggressive with no mods etc..

[Brule]

Pump flash is for use with pump fuel. So with the flash it is better than JB4 only.
Terry has commented on the consistency and has favoured map 2 or flash only with the pump flash with e20ish. using E mixes on the pump flash will only make it safer not faster.

Consistency, timing and lag are the reasons I am against map 5.
To the people that think map 5 on jb4 is fast, wait till you get a pro tune or a bms flash dialed in

If you ever want stock driveable car use map 4 not 0.

[Brule]

Flash the pump flash.

Then when you are going to add e85 e20-30 try the race flash and log if its ok.

start on map 1,2 then try flash only and see how it goes, this would be your quickest.

Are you FBO and inline pump?