[ENINTY]

Originally Posted by F104

what's your point? Looks like you changed oil on your cars at shorter intervals than advertised by BMW. So do I. And did run my first E30 320i for 360 kmls, the second owner put another 50k on it before crashing it.

I change my oil at every 20kmls. BMW system might tell you 40k will do, to me degrading oil will cause accelerated wear which typically starts to show itself way after the warranty period. I (now) run my cars for 4-5 years, 120-150 kmls total, and to me the additional oil changes is peanuts compared the knowledge of having good oil

This thread is only on what the ECU calculates, and at least I learned a thing or two. But I'll still change my oil at 20k as there's loads of other factors, and certainly with EGR on diesels.

You missed my point. I do change my oil at the BMW scheduled intervals as dictated by the service indicator. The '89 E30 service indicator, based on my driving behavior called for oil changes usually around 12,000 miles (which is a lot longer than most people on this forum think is prudent - 7,500 miles). My Wife’s Z3 (4 cylinder) usually goes about 10,000 - 12,000 miles between changes. The E90 calls for oil changes between 17,000 miles and 18,000 miles. I drive the E90 800 miles a week.

My point is I have a 20 year record of following the engine oil service intervals, that every new-comer to BMW thinks is way excessive, with not one engine failure. Other than the pre-paid service for the Z3 and E90, I've personally done all the maintenance on each car. I've owned all three cars since new (e.g. I know the maintenance history since day 1). Most Posters on this Forum call BS on the extended oil change interval, and cite oil analysis and personal opinion that going 18,000 miles between changes is bad and that BMW just does it so they can get out of one $50 oil change under the "free" maintenance program. Most Posters think the engine is going to drop out of the car at 100,000 miles if they don’t double up on oil changes. I don’t think it is true because I have three real cars that show otherwise. All three engines are the original factory built engines installed in the car during production and have not been rebuilt. None use oil at other than a normal rate. The E90 barely uses a quart in 17,000 miles (I measure the oil quantity at every change).

No one has presented any real data that shows BMW engines fail post-warranty due to the extended oil change interval.

[Bimmer Al]

Originally Posted by ENINTY

You missed my point. I do change my oil at the BMW scheduled intervals as dictated by the service indicator. The '89 E30 service indicator, based on my driving behavior called for oil changes usually around 12,000 miles (which is a lot longer than most people on this forum think is prudent - 7,500 miles). My Wife’s Z3 (4 cylinder) usually goes about 10,000 - 12,000 miles between changes. The E90 calls for oil changes between 17,000 miles and 18,000 miles. I drive the E90 800 miles a week.

My point is I have a 20 year record of following the engine oil service intervals, that every new-comer to BMW thinks is way excessive, with not one engine failure. Other than the pre-paid service for the Z3 and E90, I've personally done all the maintenance on each car. I've owned all three cars since new (e.g. I know the maintenance history since day 1). Most Posters on this Forum call BS on the extended oil change interval, and cite oil analysis and personal opinion that going 18,000 miles between changes is bad and that BMW just does it so they can get out of one $50 oil change under the "free" maintenance program. Most Posters think the engine is going to drop out of the car at 100,000 miles if they don’t double up on oil changes. I don’t think it is true because I have three real cars that show otherwise. All three engines are the original factory built engines installed in the car during production and have not been rebuilt. None use oil at other than a normal rate. The E90 barely uses a quart in 17,000 miles (I measure the oil quantity at every change).

No one has presented any real data that shows BMW engines fail post-warranty due to the extended oil change interval.

Thanks for your insight......love to hear what actually happens in the real world as opposed to those who think 5000kms intervals are normal.

[Hunter399]

The effects of not changing your oil often will only appear long after your warranty is over.

BMW uses these long intervals to save money.

[CV335]

You guys that do multiple oil changes before the "scheduled change"...you do it by yourselves (or take it to a shop) or you go to the dealer? I was telling my SA about doing the oil change more frequently and he gave me some BS about how doing oil change outside of the dealer could affect resale value because there won't be any records of the maintenance. I was like "Uhhh ok thanks...good bye". LOL

[ENINTY]

Originally Posted by Hunter399@Motorwerks

The effects of not changing your oil often will only appear long after your warranty is over.

BMW uses these long intervals to save money.

Wouldn't it be smarter for BMW to call for a shorter oil change intereval and make up some BS that the best care for your BMW is to get the oil changed at the dealer, then the dealers would make more money doing oil changes at a shorter interval? BMW would sell more oil and filters and keep their cars on the road longer (thus selling more parts). The cost of the free maintenance is built into the selling price, do you think anyone would notice an extra $50 in the MSRP to add a third oil change to the schedule?

[Hunter399]

Ya, if BMW itself was not paying the bill.

[Bimmer Al]

With all the talk about oil change intervals are we not missing something? If you comb this site most issues with BMW's have little to do with the engine itself and more to do with electronics etc Getting 250,000kms on a 3 litre engine from one of the premier engine makers in the world should be a no brainer even with their long oil interval schedule. With that said all of the paranoia has led me to change the oil/filter halfway through the scheduled change. I figure it buys me peace of mind.

[ENINTY]

Originally Posted by Hunter399@Motorwerks

Ya, if BMW itself was not paying the bill.

And after 50,000 miles BMW doesn't pay the bill, the owner does.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by turkish335

LOL - never mind - thats how an engineer who is now in finance thinks

basically, what is cheaper in the long run for BMW?

A) Cost of changing oil frequently but fewer warranty repairs in the future due to poor oil changes
B) Cost of less frequent oil changes but more warranty repairs in the future

Obviously there are other factors involved, this is a simplification. But in general terms, since the warantee repairs occur in the future, when BMW calculates what this cost would be today, it may be that its lower than the cost of doing a series of oil changes in the short term. Also, not all engines will fail due to poor oil (or can be proven to fail due to it), so assign a lower probability to that number and the present value shrinks even more.

I would love to believe that a room full of bmw engineers cranked out the threshold numbers that the ECU uses. Engineers, by nature, over design many things. Once the finance folks get a hold of it, it becomes, lets say more economical or never "flies"

It's not all about cost. Car companies are like other industries and are mandated to lower their impact on the environment. Extended interval changes is just one way to help accomplish that goal.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Al

With all the talk about oil change intervals are we not missing something? If you comb this site most issues with BMW's have little to do with the engine itself and more to do with electronics etc Getting 250,000kms on a 3 litre engine from one of the premier engine makers in the world should be a no brainer even with their long oil interval schedule. With that said all of the paranoia has led me to change the oil/filter halfway through the scheduled change. I figure it buys me peace of mind.

BINGO!! I challange anyone to show me a BMW engine which died from improper lubrication from following BMW's oil change interval using BMW or approved synthetic oil.

There are thousands of E46's on the road and you don't hear stories of these engines going belly up. It's just not happening.

[ENINTY]

Originally Posted by Socom

It's not all about cost. Car companies are like other industries and are mandated to lower their impact on the environment. Extended interval changes is just one way to help accomplish that goal.

And BMW was doing it before it was cool to "save the environment."

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by ENINTY

And BMW was doing it before it was cool to "save the environment."

That's marketing in the US. BMW is primarly beholden to European Environmental Regulations. Again, you don't hear about E46's dying from sludge now do you?

[Bimmer Al]

Originally Posted by Socom

BINGO!! I challange anyone to show me a BMW engine which died from improper lubrication from following BMW's oil change interval using BMW or approved synthetic oil.

There are thousands of E46's on the road and you don't hear stories of these engines going belly up. It's just not happening.

[ENINTY]

Originally Posted by Socom

That's marketing in the US. BMW is primarly beholden to European Environmental Regulations. Again, you don't hear about E46's dying from sludge now do you?

I guess you didn't read my other posts in this thread. BTW I've been making your point on this forum for about 2 and a half years now.

BMW has had the condition based maintenance program on their 3-series cars since the E30 in 1984. Even the Europeans weren't hot on the save the environment bandwagon back then; they were still running leaded gasoline and NOx belching diesels. And I'm not a tree hugger by any stretch of the imagination.

[Kbueno]

Originally Posted by Hunter399@Motorwerks

The effects of not changing your oil often will only appear long after your warranty is over.

BMW uses these long intervals to save money.

+1

I believe my eyes...the oil looks pretty dark and used at 7500 miles.

[KKelly]

The effects of not changing your oil often will only appear long after your warranty is over.

What effects? Honestly, I think most high-mileage issues that arise have nothing to do with bearings, lifters, etc. When I had my M5, most guys that rebuilt the engine for a head failure still had cross-hatching on the cylinder walls. To the extent that it reduces metal fatigue it would be worth more oil changes but the simple fact is most in this forum will have long sold the car by the time it would make a difference, if it makes a difference at all.

If someone is paranoid, go ahead and do them every 7500 but I sure wouldn't if I was leasing the car. :-)

[Bimmer Al]

Originally Posted by KKelly

What effects? Honestly, I think most high-mileage issues that arise have nothing to do with bearings, lifters, etc. When I had my M5, most guys that rebuilt the engine for a head failure still had cross-hatching on the cylinder walls. To the extent that it reduces metal fatigue it would be worth more oil changes but the simple fact is most in this forum will have long sold the car by the time it would make a difference, if it makes a difference at all.

If someone is paranoid, go ahead and do them every 7500 but I sure wouldn't if I was leasing the car. :-)

Interesting people are so concerned about oil changes when most lease. Would be curoius to know what % of people on this site actually own their cars and furthermore how many would keep them for more the 5-6 years or 100,000+kms

[ENINTY]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Al

Interesting people are so concerned about oil changes when most lease. Would be curoius to know what % of people on this site actually own their cars and furthermore how many would keep them for more the 5-6 years or 100,000+kms

I'm one. I'll keep mine for 250,000 miles (about 7 years) and do 15 - 18K mile oil changes.

[Houman21]

My car says I need an oil change at 7k in about a thousand miles.

[Bimmer Al]

Originally Posted by ENINTY

I'm one. I'll keep mine for 250,000 miles (about 7 years) and do 15 - 18K mile oil changes.

Nice, and how many miles/kms do you have now? Any issues? Welcome to the club....will be keeping mine for about 8 years and should have about 160,000-180,000kms by then

[itsbrokeagain]

Being a dealer tech at one point, I took the advantage of free oil and changed the oil in my 335 every 5k miles for the hell of it. The inside of my valve cover is as clean as the day I got it here.

Many a time I have pulled the valvecover off E46s and some E90s to find quite a disturbing crudded mess building up under the cover from the engine having 2 oil changes in 2 years (which now BMW has changed here to 2 years for 1 oil change if you dont drive it that much).

Thats absurd. I think BMW doesnt care what happens to the car after it is outside warranty. Its up to the owner. If that engine takes a shit (which I have seen from time to time) it comes out of that persons pocket. So lets see...10k for a new engine, or 10k warrantied. BMW would rather have the money in their pocket. So the customer dumps the car there and walks off and buys either another car, or leaves disgusted never to buy a BMW ever again.

BMW would still most likely fix the car, then put it up for sale and sell it to someone else and make money.

[ENINTY]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Al

Nice, and how many miles/kms do you have now? Any issues? Welcome to the club....will be keeping mine for about 8 years and should have about 160,000-180,000kms by then

76,000 since May 2006. No issues. Burns a quart in about 17,000 miles. I average about 45 MPH a tank and 27.6 MPG. 60 miles of hammering the back roads of VA plus 20 miles of stop and go on RT 66/28. 800 miles a week. Best commuter car available IMO.