[Feffman]

I've been driving at HPDE and running them (www.MVPTrackTime.com) for a number of years. Experience has shown a direct relationship between on track incidents and the control/nature of the events. IF those organizing the event are haphazard, there will likely be incidents.

We had several clients at our June Autobahn event in 2007 comment they had attended a track day at the same track just 1 week prior and left after two run sessions, not because of weather, but rather dangerous drivers. A number of balck flags (several ignored) and one red flag (not accident related).

If you attend a well run event with good instructors and leave the ego at the gate, I think you'll not only enjoy the day, but meet some great people as well. The one downside, it's addictive!

Happy Motoring!

Mark "Feff" Pfeffer - MVP Track Time

[cgnahc]

Saw one hit another waiting in line. First timers should take the BMW Car Control Clinc then head for the track.

[mikeo]

Originally Posted by DrewKo

If you want a bit safer tracking environment, you can try autox events through the BMW CCA. those are not on a track, do not have barriers and walls, and there is really no chance two cars can hit each other because the cars do not run simultaneously. Obviously, the fun factor is reduced in comparison to driving on a track, but autox is still plenty fun and pretty much safe for you and the car.

SCCA Solo is the least expensive and safest SCCA sanctioned motorsport. And it is a lot of fun. I've tried a few HPDE events, and while definitely fun, the increased safety concerns tempered my enjoyment considerably. I just don't feel comfortable with my daily driver in that type of event. But accidents can happen, even in autocrossing. A fellow autocrosser and good friend was killed in 2005 at a PCA autocross when the throttle on his Cobra replica stuck open.

[S4to335]

Originally Posted by mikeo

SCCA Solo is the least expensive and safest SCCA sanctioned motorsport. And it is a lot of fun. I've tried a few HPDE events, and while definitely fun, the increased safety concerns tempered my enjoyment considerably. I just don't feel comfortable with my daily driver in that type of event. But accidents can happen, even in autocrossing. A fellow autocrosser and good friend was killed in 2005 at a PCA autocross when the throttle on his Cobra replica stuck open.

You mean SCCA Solo2..aka autocrossing...SCCA Solo1 is definitely different..and much faster. I almost got nailed sitting down at the end of an autocross..giving out times..a National Champ car, driving by his wife, a very fast corvette..got out of whack AFTER the timing lights..and almost hit me..it hit the chair I was sitting in. Autocross can be dangerous too. This was Sean Breeze's car..definitely a contender in NorCal in like BP..or some other mega fast class.

[mikeo]

Solo2 up until the 2007 season when the name was changed to just Solo.

[S4to335]

Thanks for the info...obviously I was not aware of that change.

[2e9x's]

Originally Posted by S4to335

You mean SCCA Solo2..aka autocrossing...SCCA Solo1 is definitely different..and much faster. I almost got nailed sitting down at the end of an autocross..giving out times..a National Champ car, driving by his wife, a very fast corvette..got out of whack AFTER the timing lights..and almost hit me..it hit the chair I was sitting in. Autocross can be dangerous too. This was Sean Breeze's car..definitely a contender in NorCal in like BP..or some other mega fast class.

Don't you hate that? I do the timing and scoring for LA Chapter BMW CCA and I really can't understand why people do stupid things AFTER the lights. This year we will have a box truck and I plan to setup the timing table inside the truck. When you are doing this task, you are so focused on the equipment that it is tough to watch the cars at the same time.

[shimshimhada]

Did you guys see the pictures of that guy who crashed his friend's GT3 at an autox?

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3197431

[S4to335]

Yeah..I saw when that was first posted..about a year ago I guess..totally unnecessary...

[smellthebeans]

Originally Posted by lecatrache

I have never been to a track - yeah, I know, you'll say "you've been missing a lot of fun". One of the things that keeps me from going is that because everybody is going fast the chances of an accident are higher than in the street. I just visited one of the "Track Day" websites, and they require helmets, fire retardant suites, etc - which confirms my previous statement.

Is it true? How frequent (and how bad) accidents are in the track?
What about insurance? Do you have to pay extra to be insured on the track? Do they insure you at all while on the track?

I know fun has its risks, but so far my scale hasn't tipped to the fun side strong enough.

Have you ever been involved in any type of accident, or have you witnessed one?

For what it's worth one over looked safety feature is DSC. Even though it gets bad mouthed on this board and others it is an excellent life saving feature that should be standard on every production vehicle. I leave the stability control on while on the track....If I get into a situation that I can not control...."Hopefully" it will keep the ass end from coming around and putting me someplace I never intended to go such as a wall. If i find my self running in a pack...I pull off into the pits to put some space between me and those around me.

Much of what you do on the track is what you would feel comfortable with...you should go only with a reputable DE such as PCA, BMW CCA, SCCA, or Audi club. Some tracks sponsor "track daze" with no instruction.....these are a really good way for a novice (such as myself) to learn bad habits and should be avoided.

If you do decide to go the thing to look at first is not SPEED...but SMOOTH...if your smooth you should not notice DSC kicking on.

number one rule of thumb...If you drove it there...you have to drive it home.

[shimshimhada]

Originally Posted by S4to335

Yeah..I saw when that was first posted..about a year ago I guess..totally unnecessary...

I needed to warn people of the dangers of letting others drive your car.

Originally Posted by smellthebeans

For what it's worth one over looked safety feature is DSC. Even though it gets bad mouthed on this board and others it is an excellent life saving feature that should be standard on every production vehicle. I leave the stability control on while on the track....If I get into a situation that I can not control...."Hopefully" it will keep the ass end from coming around and putting me someplace I never intended to go such as a wall. If i find my self running in a pack...I pull off into the pits to put some space between me and those around me.

Much of what you do on the track is what you would feel comfortable with...you should go only with a reputable DE such as PCA, BMW CCA, SCCA, or Audi club. Some tracks sponsor "track daze" with no instruction.....these are a really good way for a novice (such as myself) to learn bad habits and should be avoided.

If you do decide to go the thing to look at first is not SPEED...but SMOOTH...if your smooth you should not notice DSC kicking on.

number one rule of thumb...If you drove it there...you have to drive it home.

Eventually DSC will limit your ability to progress. The whole point of a driver's school is to learn how to control your car, no?

That isn't to say that DSC is useless, it's a good tool for beginners. Hell, I kept it on for my first few days, but after I turned it off, I was greatly more aware of where I needed to improve WITHOUT looking down at the pretty blinking yellow light.

[smellthebeans]

Originally Posted by shimshimhada

I needed to warn people of the dangers of letting others drive your car.


Eventually DSC will limit your ability to progress. The whole point of a driver's school is to learn how to control your car, no?

That isn't to say that DSC is useless, it's a good tool for beginners. Hell, I kept it on for my first few days, but after I turned it off, I was greatly more aware of where I needed to improve WITHOUT looking down at the pretty blinking yellow light.

My first time DSC made me a better driver then i really was/am...it was not till i turned it off...that i realized my errors...now...its only mildly intrusive...some times I use it...some times I dont.

The whole point I think the OP is worried about cracking up his car...while DSC will not totally prevent such an event...it is something to consider as a risk reducer along with, instructor supervision, proper maintenance, anyone considering a DE should be told these are risk reducers (when used in conjunction with each other)...not eliminators.

I was at a DE last August..and they asked a student in my group to leave (i don't know if he received a refund)...he was ALL over the place to the point every time I came up behind him I pulled down pit road because I did not want to pass him. I would bet if a school coordinator is willing to do that...its a good school.

I see your in DC...do you work/participate at VIR? If so PM me...I have questions.

[martieg]

I think that at the end of the day the decision that everybody takes is this regard will be a function of the variables: fun, thrill, competition, safety, financial exposure, and maybe others. But everybody has different values for these variables, and some of us get the fun, thrill and competition in areas other than racing too.

I would love to do it, but in my case, the risks associated with it are far greater that my need for fun, thrill and competition at the track. Just not worth the risk. For others here, obviously, it is worth the risk. I respect that.

[smellthebeans]

Good point....It's not for every one (neither is jumping out of planes for a living). There are Tons of things to do besides taking your car to a track. Autocrossing (far less hazardous), Time speed distance rally, charity driving events ect ect ect...I have done all of them....my favorite was the time speed distance and or fun rally...Check out SCCA for more info.

Great thread

[kevbh]

Originally Posted by lecatrache

I think that at the end of the day the decision that everybody takes is this regard will be a function of the variables: fun, thrill, competition, safety, financial exposure, and maybe others. But everybody has different values for these variables, and some of us get the fun, thrill and competition in areas other than racing too.

I would love to do it, but in my case, the risks associated with it are far greater that my need for fun, thrill and competition at the track. Just not worth the risk. For others here, obviously, it is worth the risk. I respect that.

You are absolutely right - it's not for everyone. Obviously everyone responding here absolutely loves it, but there are probably some folks that tried it once and never had a desire to go again. I'll mention one last option - if, for example, you are a member of the BMWCCA, and come out to one of the track days, the Peachtree Chapter encourages the instructors to take members for rides (just dress appropriately and have your helmet). Just taking a few laps with an instructor can be a life altering experience. I promise you one thing, next time you watch a race on TV or play a racing game on PS2 or XBox, you'll have a much greater appreciation for what's happening!

[shimshimhada]

Originally Posted by kevbh

You are absolutely right - it's not for everyone. Obviously everyone responding here absolutely loves it, but there are probably some folks that tried it once and never had a desire to go again. I'll mention one last option - if, for example, you are a member of the BMWCCA, and come out to one of the track days, the Peachtree Chapter encourages the instructors to take members for rides (just dress appropriately and have your helmet). Just taking a few laps with an instructor can be a life altering experience. I promise you one thing, next time you watch a race on TV or play a racing game on PS2 or XBox, you'll have a much greater appreciation for what's happening!

I haven't met one person who tried it once, never to do it again.

[S4to335]

Originally Posted by shimshimhada

I haven't met one person who tried it once, never to do it again.

I had a student a bunch of years ago..that got car sick in his own car...not from food either...he never came back.

[shimshimhada]

Originally Posted by S4to335

I had a student a bunch of years ago..that got car sick in his own car...not from food either...he never came back.

[2e9x's]

FWIW I totally agree with the comments about DSC...I usually leave it on and find it minimally intrusive. In fact, doesn't BMW CCA require that it be left on? Does that apply in the A group too?

There is another option for somebody wanting to get their feet wet on a track...schools like Skip Barber and Bob Bondurant may be a good choice. You use their cars, and their instructors. While more costly, you get a good broad education there.

I have a friend who just participated in The Ariel Atom Experience. Too bad that was $1,500 for the day because it sounded amazing. They supply the cars, food, driving suits, 2 in car video cameras, and full lap times/analysis. Apparently that car has so much of everything that he had bruises on his shoulders from the harnesses.