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      12-31-2015, 05:49 PM   #23
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Hey folks I'm in the middle of my DIY, hope someone can help with a few issues related to automatic transmission models. My car is an e90 328i n52 GM automatic.

1. As OP notes, auto trans pan bolts include some longer bolts. My set of bolts that I purchased include the following:
m8x26 : 23 bolts
m8x112: 7 bolts
m8x92: 3 bolts

so far, I've removed all of the bolts that screw directly into the pan (pointing upward), which includes 23 bolts m8x26, 2 bolts m8x112, and 3 bolts m8x92. Therefore I have 5 bolts m8x112 unaccounted for.

where do I need to remove additional bolts? There are some bolts with horizontal orientation that screw into the bell housing and look like they may thread into the pan, but I thought I should ask before pulling them out.

2. On my car, I have some plastic tubes that send ATF from the transmission to the trans cooler at the front of the car. The tubes hug the oil pan pan and obstruct access to pan bolts on the drivers side. I disconnected a couple brackets that attach the tubing to the pan as well as un-mounting the trans cooler. This helped give a little flexibility to the plastic tubing... I got the obstructed pan bolts out but it was a PITA and very time consuming.

I'm thinking when I finally try to remove the pan, I'll have a fight on my hands with the tubing again.

Has anyone dealt with this? What did you do? Did the tubing obstruct/prevent removal?

If I need to, I'll disconnect the tubing from the tranny, but I'd rather avoid if there is a way...

3. In OP's DIY, he talks about an oil return line disconnection. On my car, there appear to be differences (I can't find it lol ) and looking at diagrams on realoem it appears that f17227581147or OP's car, the oil return line plugs into the exterior of the oil pan. For my car, there is simply a plug and o-ring in the diagram for the oil pan, in that position.

Is the oil return line somewhere else and I'll have to deal with it some other way? or do I get off easy on this and not have to deal with it? Haven't found it yet on realoem.

Thanks and Happy New Year!

Last edited by mlifxs; 01-01-2016 at 11:28 AM.. Reason: addding a third issue
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      01-01-2016, 01:38 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlifxs View Post
Hey folks I'm in the middle of my DIY, hope someone can help with a few issues related to automatic transmission models. My car is an e90 328i n52 GM automatic.

1. As OP notes, auto trans pan bolts include some longer bolts. My set of bolts that I purchased include the following:
m8x26 : 23 bolts
m8x112: 7 bolts
m8x92: 3 bolts

so far, I've removed all of the bolts that screw directly into the pan (pointing upward), which includes 23 bolts m8x26, 2 bolts m8x112, and 3 bolts m8x92. Therefore I have 5 bolts m8x112 unaccounted for.

where do I need to remove additional bolts? There are some bolts with horizontal orientation that screw into the bell housing and look like they may thread into the pan, but I thought I should ask before pulling them out.

2. On my car, I have some plastic tubes that send ATF from the transmission to the trans cooler at the front of the car. The tubes hug the oil pan pan and obstruct access to pan bolts on the drivers side. I disconnected a couple brackets that attach the tubing to the pan as well as un-mounting the trans cooler. This helped give a little flexibility to the plastic tubing... I got the obstructed pan bolts out but it was a PITA and very time consuming.

I'm thinking when I finally try to remove the pan, I'll have a fight on my hands with the tubing again.

Has anyone dealt with this? What did you do? Did the tubing obstruct/prevent removal?

If I need to, I'll disconnect the tubing from the tranny, but I'd rather avoid if there is a way...

3. In OP's DIY, he talks about an oil return line disconnection. On my car, there appear to be differences (I can't find it lol ) and looking at diagrams on realoem it appears that f17227581147or OP's car, the oil return line plugs into the exterior of the oil pan. For my car, there is simply a plug and o-ring in the diagram for the oil pan, in that position.

Is the oil return line somewhere else and I'll have to deal with it some other way? or do I get off easy on this and not have to deal with it? Haven't found it yet on realoem.

Thanks and Happy New Year!
Managed to solve 1 and 3. For three, I did not have to deal with a return line. For 1, the extra 5 bolts are NA and not sure why they are provided. There are, however 4 horizontally positioned bolts near the bellhousing which must be removed and they are not painted blue so I intend to reuse. For one of the bolts, OP's suggestion of removing a bracket to give access to an oil return line comes in handy for removal (of the bolt). So time well spent there.

I have the pan off. It was plenty of trial and error. The oil pump fights your removal at the front of the car. The unclipping of the AC hose gave little flexibility, not much. It came out the back with plenty of subframe maneuvering. So, progress!

Once I get the pan cleaned and back on, I plan to address #2 by disconnecting the ATF lines. Hopefully this will make proper torquing of bolts much easier.

OP your DIY is so freakin' helpful! THANKS!
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      01-01-2016, 06:27 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlifxs
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlifxs View Post
Hey folks I'm in the middle of my DIY, hope someone can help with a few issues related to automatic transmission models. My car is an e90 328i n52 GM automatic.

1. As OP notes, auto trans pan bolts include some longer bolts. My set of bolts that I purchased include the following:
m8x26 : 23 bolts
m8x112: 7 bolts
m8x92: 3 bolts

so far, I've removed all of the bolts that screw directly into the pan (pointing upward), which includes 23 bolts m8x26, 2 bolts m8x112, and 3 bolts m8x92. Therefore I have 5 bolts m8x112 unaccounted for.

where do I need to remove additional bolts? There are some bolts with horizontal orientation that screw into the bell housing and look like they may thread into the pan, but I thought I should ask before pulling them out.

2. On my car, I have some plastic tubes that send ATF from the transmission to the trans cooler at the front of the car. The tubes hug the oil pan pan and obstruct access to pan bolts on the drivers side. I disconnected a couple brackets that attach the tubing to the pan as well as un-mounting the trans cooler. This helped give a little flexibility to the plastic tubing... I got the obstructed pan bolts out but it was a PITA and very time consuming.

I'm thinking when I finally try to remove the pan, I'll have a fight on my hands with the tubing again.

Has anyone dealt with this? What did you do? Did the tubing obstruct/prevent removal?

If I need to, I'll disconnect the tubing from the tranny, but I'd rather avoid if there is a way...

3. In OP's DIY, he talks about an oil return line disconnection. On my car, there appear to be differences (I can't find it lol ) and looking at diagrams on realoem it appears that f17227581147or OP's car, the oil return line plugs into the exterior of the oil pan. For my car, there is simply a plug and o-ring in the diagram for the oil pan, in that position.

Is the oil return line somewhere else and I'll have to deal with it some other way? or do I get off easy on this and not have to deal with it? Haven't found it yet on realoem.

Thanks and Happy New Year!
Managed to solve 1 and 3. For three, I did not have to deal with a return line. For 1, the extra 5 bolts are NA and not sure why they are provided. There are, however 4 horizontally positioned bolts near the bellhousing which must be removed and they are not painted blue so I intend to reuse. For one of the bolts, OP's suggestion of removing a bracket to give access to an oil return line comes in handy for removal (of the bolt). So time well spent there.

I have the pan off. It was plenty of trial and error. The oil pump fights your removal at the front of the car. The unclipping of the AC hose gave little flexibility, not much. It came out the back with plenty of subframe maneuvering. So, progress!

Once I get the pan cleaned and back on, I plan to address #2 by disconnecting the ATF lines. Hopefully this will make proper torquing of bolts much easier.

OP your DIY is so freakin' helpful! THANKS!
I'm glad you were able to remove the pan with my DIY considering the differences.
My job is done. I told myself if I could at least help one person successfully to this job it would be well worth the time putting it together.
*Note: please be extra extra extra cautious when torquing the oil pan. 8nm (6ft lbs) is not a lot. Make sure you have a quality torque wrench you can trust.

Thanks also for your detailed input for the automatic crowd out there.

Cheers
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      01-01-2016, 09:50 PM   #26
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workshop-manuals.com lists the torque on the aluminum oil pan bolts for N52 as:

M8x26 aluminum bolts: 8 Nm then additional 90 degrees
M8x92 and M8x112 aluminum bolts: 8 Nm then additional 180 degrees

My older version of Bentley manual doesn't cover oil pan so couldn't find torque specs there.

That white locktite kind of thing on the bolts cause some drag and false clicking of my torque wrench at 8 Nm before they are really tightened at 8 Nm. When they are really tight at 8 Nm, torque wrench clicks and do stop at it, even at 2nd or subsequent attempts. But needed to be careful while torqing.

The oil return line is something for the early N52's with metal magnesium valve cover. Plastic cover (with black engine vanity cover) N52's have the oil return inside the valve cover, hence you found just a plug for it on your oil pan.
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      01-02-2016, 12:51 PM   #27
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Thanks guys.

The trans cooling lines turned out to be no big deal. Wish I addressed before trying to remove the pan bolts as it would have saved plenty of time. Disconnected them at the transmission prior to starting the pan reinstall. I only lost about 6 oz of atf, letting them hang to the ground.

I finished torquing the bolts about 2 hours ago. After all that work, it looks like I may have some slow weeping near the bell housing. This is before adding any oil; I'm praying it's just some residual caught on the bell housing surface when I installed the pan. yikes.

Front drivers side bolt gave me plenty of scare. It acted like it didn't want to go. Not sure what happened. Getting the bolt in was an act of faith as it showed high torque value well before finally seating.
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      01-02-2016, 12:57 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlifxs
Thanks guys.

The trans cooling lines turned out to be no big deal. Wish I addressed before trying to remove the pan bolts as it would have saved plenty of time. Disconnected them at the transmission prior to starting the pan reinstall. I only lost about 6 oz of atf, letting them hang to the ground.

I finished torquing the bolts about 2 hours ago. After all that work, it looks like I may have some slow weeping near the bell housing. This is before adding any oil; I'm praying it's just some residual caught on the bell housing surface when I installed the pan. yikes.

Front drivers side bolt gave me plenty of scare. It acted like it didn't want to go. Not sure what happened. Getting the bolt in was an act of faith as it showed high torque value well before finally seating.
These aluminum bolts are scary to deal with especially when the torque yield is so low.
I snapped a new bolt when replacing my alternator 2 months ago. I got lucky it still had a 1/2 inch sticking out so I could clamp a vise grip to remove it.
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      01-02-2016, 02:12 PM   #29
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Any consensus on torque specs for the subframe bolts?

When I took the first on off, I thought it would be a bear, but it broke pretty easily with my breaker bar, easier than a wheel lug.

So on the subsequent bolt removals, I broke them 90 degrees and then used a bar torque wrench to measure going 90 degrees back. I got readings from mid-high forties to low 50s.

I just raised the subframe and decided to go with 55 ft. lbs. Let me know if you think I'm going astray here.
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      01-02-2016, 02:43 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrashFinatik View Post
These aluminum bolts are scary to deal with especially when the torque yield is so low.
I snapped a new bolt when replacing my alternator 2 months ago. I got lucky it still had a 1/2 inch sticking out so I could clamp a vise grip to remove it.
Yep. I broke one, fortunately NOT a pan bolt.

There are three bolts connecting the bell housing to the engine, that horizontally screw into the oil pan. I removed these, as required, but I mistakenly removed a fourth bolt that was blue headed. Doesn't appear to affect gasket sealing, but who knows. I put it back temporarily, pending replacement

When I noticed the weeping after torquing up the pan, I decided to re-torque the 3 bolts plus the blue head and sure enough the blue snapped easily. So I'll be figuring out removal on that.

Still at it, getting ready to torque the new mounts and k-brace.
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      01-02-2016, 05:48 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlifxs View Post
Any consensus on torque specs for the subframe bolts?
Just checked my notes from workshop-manuals.com shows:

80ftlb for E90 of M12 bolts. (no angles, just that).

For E92, M10 bolt and 41 ftlb first stage, then 90 degrees additional. This means for E92 would be better not to reuse those bolts. If reusing I would be careful tightening. The additional degree usually means bolt is being stretched.

The tightening order is shown as first the front bolts close to front bumper. And then the other four behind. Going criss cross in addition to this would be helpful.

I have done this job on my 325XI E90, so I have these notes. Planning to submit a write up on XI, which is more involved.

All the torques are available on workshop-manuals.com but it is not very easy to wade through.

Last edited by PhaseP; 01-02-2016 at 05:54 PM..
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      01-02-2016, 05:54 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlifxs View Post
I finished torquing the bolts about 2 hours ago. After all that work, it looks like I may have some slow weeping near the bell housing. This is before adding any oil; I'm praying it's just some residual caught on the bell housing surface when I installed the pan. yikes.
I had some oil residue there also, and after a few days of driving I checked it, still had some but didn't look like new oil. I didn't check after that. It has been a few weeks, I don't have any drop in oil level, so I conclude it isn't leaking there, just residue from previous leak and more oil getting there when pan was removed. Time will tell eventually, but I don't worry at this point.
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      01-02-2016, 07:02 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by PhaseP View Post
I had some oil residue there also, and after a few days of driving I checked it, still had some but didn't look like new oil. I didn't check after that. It has been a few weeks, I don't have any drop in oil level, so I conclude it isn't leaking there, just residue from previous leak and more oil getting there when pan was removed. Time will tell eventually, but I don't worry at this point.
Thank you. Hope you're right in my case. On a positive note, the new engine mounts appear to be fine (but car is still up on jack stands). I used some torque specs shown by Pelican Parts in their engine mount DIY.
That said, I'd gladly put the old mounts back in if it would guarantee me success with the gasket

Thanks for subframe torque specs. 80 ft lbs it shall be.
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      01-03-2016, 01:43 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhaseP
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlifxs View Post
Any consensus on torque specs for the subframe bolts?
Just checked my notes from workshop-manuals.com shows:

80ftlb for E90 of M12 bolts. (no angles, just that).

For E92, M10 bolt and 41 ftlb first stage, then 90 degrees additional. This means for E92 would be better not to reuse those bolts. If reusing I would be careful tightening. The additional degree usually means bolt is being stretched.

The tightening order is shown as first the front bolts close to front bumper. And then the other four behind. Going criss cross in addition to this would be helpful.

I have done this job on my 325XI E90, so I have these notes. Planning to submit a write up on XI, which is more involved.

All the torques are available on workshop-manuals.com but it is not very easy to wade through.
Thanks PhaseP for those subframe torque specs. I didn't torque mine down (which I should have) but I haven't had any issues with it (luckily).
By the time we're done with this the last person to stroll through won't have to ask any questions at all.
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      01-03-2016, 12:32 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrashFinatik
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhaseP
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlifxs View Post
Any consensus on torque specs for the subframe bolts?
Just checked my notes from workshop-manuals.com shows:

80ftlb for E90 of M12 bolts. (no angles, just that).

For E92, M10 bolt and 41 ftlb first stage, then 90 degrees additional. This means for E92 would be better not to reuse those bolts. If reusing I would be careful tightening. The additional degree usually means bolt is being stretched.

The tightening order is shown as first the front bolts close to front bumper. And then the other four behind. Going criss cross in addition to this would be helpful.

I have done this job on my 325XI E90, so I have these notes. Planning to submit a write up on XI, which is more involved.

All the torques are available on workshop-manuals.com but it is not very easy to wade through.
Thanks PhaseP for those subframe torque specs. I didn't torque mine down (which I should have) but I haven't had any issues with it (luckily).
By the time we're done with this the last person to stroll through won't have to ask any questions at all.
yeah given the age of our cars, this sb a popular diy thread
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      01-03-2016, 01:15 PM   #36
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Wow! Thanks for the write up KrashFinatik . In a few months after the winter I am planning to do a suspension refresh. Struts, Control Arms etc. Just need figure out if it's feasible that way where time savings is concerned or ease of install since the subframe will be out including this job.
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      01-10-2016, 11:46 AM   #37
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Excellent DIY! Thanks for posting. I came up with a cheap and effective engine support bar using a 2x6 and short sections of 2x4's (wood working skills required). I'll post it later. But...

So (seriously) HOW THE FUCK DO YOU GET THE OIL RETURN LINE OFF? Decided to watch the playoffs for the rest of the day...

Thanks
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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      01-10-2016, 01:41 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PichaDis11
Wow! Thanks for the write up KrashFinatik . In a few months after the winter I am planning to do a suspension refresh. Struts, Control Arms etc. Just need figure out if it's feasible that way where time savings is concerned or ease of install since the subframe will be out including this job.
I regards to suspension work on the front end you won't need to drop the subframe for any of it. But the rear subframe has bushings that will need replacing or upgrading to polyurethane.
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      01-10-2016, 01:47 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh
Excellent DIY! Thanks for posting. I came up with a cheap and effective engine support bar using a 2x6 and short sections of 2x4's (wood working skills required). I'll post it later. But...

So (seriously) HOW THE FUCK DO YOU GET THE OIL RETURN LINE OFF? Decided to watch the playoffs for the rest of the day...

Thanks
It was a "PITA" for me too. All I can say is patience and some luck. I was fighting with mine for quite awhile and had to leave it. I came back to it some time later and I got it off.
The clips are at 4 spots and you have to pinch it with pliers from two sides and use a flat head to lift the other clips. This is best done when the oil pan is loose so the weight of it plus movement helps the line disconnect.
I hope this helps.
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      01-10-2016, 01:47 PM   #40
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Not to discourage innovation with woodwork or safety concerns, but I did manage pretty well with a 2-point Harbor Freight bar that cost $64 (after 20% off coupon available everywhere) + tax. When I first put it together, I had some concerns, but once it's tightened down with the tow hook, it seems pretty solid. Not a peep of sound when I lowered the jack and let the sub-frame drop.

One recommendation that may be obvious to some (not me, until it was too late!): If you're going to leave the sub-frame lowered but still on the car, it may be worthwhile to degrease / wipe down the sub-frame and everything else between you and those pan bolts, before you begin removing the bolts. Otherwise, it's "all on you", as they say.
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      01-10-2016, 01:57 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlifxs
Not to discourage innovation with woodwork or safety concerns, but I did manage pretty well with a 2-point Harbor Freight bar that cost $64 (after 20% off coupon available everywhere) + tax. When I first put it together, I had some concerns, but once it's tightened down with the tow hook, it seems pretty solid. Not a peep of sound when I lowered the jack and let the sub-frame drop.

One recommendation that may be obvious to some (not me, until it was too late!): If you're going to leave the sub-frame lowered but still on the car, it may be worthwhile to degrease / wipe down the sub-frame and everything else between you and those pan bolts, before you begin removing the bolts. Otherwise, it's "all on you", as they say.
I took off the plastic covers and went to my local pressure wash. I used the bay where they allow vehicles with excessive "mud" or oil in my case. I have ramps which I brought with me to raise the car and hosed away.
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      01-10-2016, 05:24 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Excellent DIY! Thanks for posting. I came up with a cheap and effective engine support bar using a 2x6 and short sections of 2x4's (wood working skills required). I'll post it later. But...

So (seriously) HOW THE FUCK DO YOU GET THE OIL RETURN LINE OFF? Decided to watch the playoffs for the rest of the day...

Thanks
I did this on my 2006 XI and has a write up
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1211290

Updated 4/29/2016- See later post in this thread on what tool to use to disconnect that line:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...2&postcount=84


Of course later year N52's with plastic valve cover don't have this to worry about, they don't have this return line, oil return is inside the plastic valve.cover.

Last edited by PhaseP; 04-28-2016 at 11:05 PM..
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      01-11-2016, 04:40 AM   #43
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It was a "PITA" for me too. All I can say is patience and some luck. I was fighting with mine for quite awhile and had to leave it. I came back to it some time later and I got it off.
The clips are at 4 spots and you have to pinch it with pliers from two sides and use a flat head to lift the other clips. This is best done when the oil pan is loose so the weight of it plus movement helps the line disconnect.
I hope this helps.
Thanks for the response. So the small rectangles on the sides of the connector body with the 3 ribs on them pinch in with pliers? Then for the other clips you use a small screw driver from the underside? Is there a metal ring in the connection? I was thinking of using some penetrating oil on it. What do you think?

And your DIY was great (I know I already said this). Very informative and saved me tons of time. Much appreciated.
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      01-11-2016, 04:50 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlifxs View Post
Not to discourage innovation with woodwork or safety concerns, but I did manage pretty well with a 2-point Harbor Freight bar that cost $64 (after 20% off coupon available everywhere) + tax. When I first put it together, I had some concerns, but once it's tightened down with the tow hook, it seems pretty solid. Not a peep of sound when I lowered the jack and let the sub-frame drop.

One recommendation that may be obvious to some (not me, until it was too late!): If you're going to leave the sub-frame lowered but still on the car, it may be worthwhile to degrease / wipe down the sub-frame and everything else between you and those pan bolts, before you begin removing the bolts. Otherwise, it's "all on you", as they say.
When I post the pic of my contraption you'll understand. I looked at the Harbor freight engine bar and was going to get it, but it was not in stock. My engine support is basically a 2x6 spanning the fenders (about 60 inches) with a 3/8ths Grade-8 bolt attaching the tow hook to the 2x6. It's far more than sturdy. It was all stuff I just had lying around my shop.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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