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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > +1mm Modified Intake Lift Valvetronic Supports- 'MILVs' N52



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      07-10-2018, 10:23 PM   #771
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Originally Posted by varoadking View Post
Bumping the thread because MILV's should never be ignored for 2 weeks...
I'd be picking some up but you know how bimmers are.. 7 other things came first
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      07-16-2018, 09:38 AM   #772
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Originally Posted by atmosphericM View Post
The burble tune is only for use with NO cats, at all. You've got the right idea re. the tune and fuel burning out the cats.

At least two guys here have bought and installed the AFE headers but no one ever provided any solid feedback or dyno numbers. They're rarely used, but if you need them for emissions, well then you need them. They're surely a decent improvement over the stock manifolds.

I wouldn't bother dynoing your AWD after MILVS. Unless you have a before dyno, what's the point?

IMO get cat-less headers and reinstall your secondary cats vs. using catted headers w/no secondaries. The further the cats are from the motor, the more power you'll make. Plus, cat-less headers can be had for pretty cheap compared to the catted ones.
All fair points. Thing is, I have already kind of committed to my setup so whatever it ends up being is just what it is. This car is my daily but I couldn't help turning it into a bit of a project. Just wanted it to be able to put a little more power down.

The Dyno I meant more as just a method to measure the endpoint. Not a before and after comparison. The car was never dynoed stock, and I have done a whole bunch of mods to it plus still running the stock tune so the car is all out of whack in that respect. Who knows what power it is making now and what gains can be attributed to what mod. When I see N52 dynos online, they are usually from rwd models and usually manual also. It would be interesting to see, if worse case scenario you have an auto awd (like me), what can the N52 put down FBO under these conditions? Not sure this question has yet been answered. So once everything is installed, I may pay for a few pulls if I feel so inclined.
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      07-16-2018, 09:58 AM   #773
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Originally Posted by RJC612 View Post
All fair points. Thing is, I have already kind of committed to my setup so whatever it ends up being is just what it is. This car is my daily but I couldn't help turning it into a bit of a project. Just wanted it to be able to put a little more power down.

The Dyno I meant more as just a method to measure the endpoint. Not a before and after comparison. The car was never dynoed stock, and I have done a whole bunch of mods to it plus still running the stock tune so the car is all out of whack in that respect. Who knows what power it is making now and what gains can be attributed to what mod. When I see N52 dynos online, they are usually from rwd models and usually manual also. It would be interesting to see, if worse case scenario you have an auto awd (like me), what can the N52 put down FBO under these conditions? Not sure this question has yet been answered. So once everything is installed, I may pay for a few pulls if I feel so inclined.
Arma headers?
I think you should consider the 330i tune that hassmaschine and Terraphantm have created. It's a good starting point until you get your tune. They also may offer an upgraded/updated Automatic transmission tune from rjahl from XHP.

You stock software is literally the worst of the bunch, and the 330i software that is offered by Bimmerlabs would be a great starting point for you until you buy a tune from BPC/Bimmerlabs/AA
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      07-16-2018, 10:33 AM   #774
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Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJC612 View Post
All fair points. Thing is, I have already kind of committed to my setup so whatever it ends up being is just what it is. This car is my daily but I couldn't help turning it into a bit of a project. Just wanted it to be able to put a little more power down.

The Dyno I meant more as just a method to measure the endpoint. Not a before and after comparison. The car was never dynoed stock, and I have done a whole bunch of mods to it plus still running the stock tune so the car is all out of whack in that respect. Who knows what power it is making now and what gains can be attributed to what mod. When I see N52 dynos online, they are usually from rwd models and usually manual also. It would be interesting to see, if worse case scenario you have an auto awd (like me), what can the N52 put down FBO under these conditions? Not sure this question has yet been answered. So once everything is installed, I may pay for a few pulls if I feel so inclined.
Arma headers?
I think you should consider the 330i tune that hassmaschine and Terraphantm have created. It's a good starting point until you get your tune. They also may offer an upgraded/updated Automatic transmission tune from rjahl from XHP.

You stock software is literally the worst of the bunch, and the 330i software that is offered by Bimmerlabs would be a great starting point for you until you buy a tune from BPC/Bimmerlabs/AA
They are straight from AFE actually. They look a bit different in person than photos they advertise but still very nice. The flanges, bends, finish, welds etc all look high quality and my god these are light. Much lighter than I anticipated. Has to be some weight savings there even if it's only 10lbs it's got to be something.

Tell me about it. As my whip did start it's life as a 325, the stock tune is GARBAGE. I would even venture as far as to say that the exhaust 3IM and CAI etc have afforded me 0 additional power when applied over the stock tune, maybe even subtracted power. I just keep telling myself all this $$$ spent will be well worth it once the car is retuned. After all I am still working with only 1 DISA here

Plan is to do tune headers oil pan gasket and 330 oil cooler retrofit all in a weekend coming up at some point soon. I think after that there will be a type of "night and day" shock value which no lie I am looking forward to. Just don't wanna waste any time or money tuning the car at an intermediate state when I will just have to deal with it all over again once everything is bolted on.

Apologies for the off topic content.
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      07-17-2018, 07:25 AM   #775
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Yep they even work on N55 and S55 engines.
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      07-19-2018, 03:38 PM   #776
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So who's the cat from Tennessee that has a white 128i in at BPC for the MILVS installation today?



We have a shared malady with our VAICO DISA valves...but I started another thread on that so as not to clutter up the MILVS thread:

https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show...1#post23478021
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      07-19-2018, 04:26 PM   #777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varoadking View Post
So who's the cat from Tennessee that has a white 128i in at BPC for the MILVS installation today?



We have a shared malady with our VAICO DISA valves...but I started another thread on that so as not to clutter up the MILVS thread:

https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show...1#post23478021
I've been asking questions on IG and here. No numbers were provided, I was interested in a FBO dyno!
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      07-19-2018, 05:03 PM   #778
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FBO Dyno?
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      07-19-2018, 05:04 PM   #779
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FBO Dyno?
‘Full bolt on’
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      07-19-2018, 05:09 PM   #780
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‘Full bolt on’
Thanks...
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      07-19-2018, 05:15 PM   #781
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Thanks...
Headers, intake, exhaust - the usual stuff.
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      07-24-2018, 12:16 PM   #782
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I suppose we should vote on exactly what "FBO" means for the N51/2, now that guys are getting more and more adventurous here lol. Should a BBTB be part of it?

At a minimum I'd say..

Modified Intake (Typically either Eurobox w/ Silicone Inlet, or aFe Sealed, or deleted charcoal filter w/ silicone inlet)
3 Stage or N54 Intake Manifold
MILVS
Headers
Secondary Cat Delete (Race Pipes)
Cat-Back Exhaust
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      07-25-2018, 09:00 AM   #783
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BBTB should be added. Either N54 or Riot 80mm.
Especially if headers are on the list.

And Tune. It is really an integral part to tie all the FBOs together.
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      07-25-2018, 10:05 AM   #784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atmosphericM View Post
I suppose we should vote on exactly what "FBO" means for the N51/2, now that guys are getting more and more adventurous here lol. Should a BBTB be part of it?

At a minimum I'd say..

Modified Intake (Typically either Eurobox w/ Silicone Inlet, or aFe Sealed, or deleted charcoal filter w/ silicone inlet)
3 Stage or N54 Intake Manifold
MILVS
Headers
Secondary Cat Delete (Race Pipes)
Cat-Back Exhaust
Typically, when speaking about FBO - or BPU (basic performance upgrades) it doesn't include any modifications to the motor internally, so that would mean things like cams and MILVS wouldn't be included.

It would just be the Intake, header and exhaust system being modified in some way.
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      07-25-2018, 10:45 AM   #785
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Originally Posted by CobraMarty View Post
BBTB should be added. Either N54 or Riot 80mm.
Especially if headers are on the list.

And Tune. It is really an integral part to tie all the FBOs together.
Does anyone feel any type of way about the BBTB i.e. which is better Riot or N54? Inner diamter if the Riot one is slightly larger if I remember correctly. Any tuning necessary?
I feel a little bit like a BBTB mod makes more sense with the N54 manifold rather than 3 stage because dynos I have seen show a few added hp way up at the top of the rpm range like 6k+ where the 3 stage manifold seems to be outperformed by the N54 manifold.
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      07-25-2018, 01:08 PM   #786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraMarty View Post
BBTB should be added. Either N54 or Riot 80mm.
Especially if headers are on the list.

And Tune. It is really an integral part to tie all the FBOs together.
Good point on the tune. Doh. Although I suppose that isn't technically a 'bolt-on' heh. I do think it should be included, though.

I'm also with you Task in that MILVS, which are most closely related to cams, aren't typically considered a bolt-on. That said, I think they should be included just because they make as much a difference as most other 'bolt-on's' if not more - and typically anyone here that is serious about adding power opts to install them.

Marty, why do you say BBTB should be included "especially if" headers are included? I'm under the impression that headers will provide a great deal more power than the BBTB. Am I wrong? I don't think one has been dyno tested here yet, but I feel like the BBTB is a 'just cause, why not?' sort of mod that is done when there is nothing else left to do. I think I remember Biginboca testing his via Draggy but can't remember what his results were (also can't remember if he tested it alone or if it was in conjunction with other mods).

Quote:
FBO List (IMO):

Modified Intake (Typically either Eurobox w/ Silicone Inlet, or aFe Sealed, or deleted charcoal filter w/ silicone inlet)
BBTB
3 Stage or N54 Intake Manifold
MILVS
Headers
Secondary Cat Delete (Race Pipes)
Cat-Back Exhaust
Tune
I'm tempted to include a final drive mod in the list but will refrain due to it having obvious offsetting characteristics that understandably steer some away from the mod such as higher running RPM's and a possible very slight MPG decrease.
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Last edited by atmosphericM; 07-25-2018 at 01:28 PM.
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      07-25-2018, 03:26 PM   #787
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Just that the 'ease of bolting on' of BBTB compared to headers. Not that they make more power. Headers install is a PITA.

FBO usually refers to what a 'typical enthusiast backyard mechanic' can do in his garage with his HF box of tools. No special skills or tools.

All the 'easy' stuff.

Different cars will have different lists.
An example is on my Jeeps 4.0L I6, I would consider the higher ratio 1.7:1 roller rockers a bolt on that can be done by most anyone. Again after air filter, BBTB, intake manifold, headers, cat back exhaust.

Replacing the rear diff with a lower ratio diff assembly from an auto would be FBO but replacing the gears to a different ratio or installing/adding LSD would not be considered FBO as it requires special tools, micrometers, skills.

FBO is what the 'non-professional mechanic' can do at home in his garage with a floor jack, jack stands and basic 'kit/box' tool chests. The relatively 'easy' stuff.

I can do MILVs, I can't change a overhead chain driven camshaft.
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      07-25-2018, 03:30 PM   #788
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Ported head, bigger valve, bigger cam, higher compression, balanced and blueprinted, forged crank/rods/pistons, lightweight parts are not FBO.

Superchargers ?, are kinda Stage 2 FBO.
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      07-25-2018, 03:49 PM   #789
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back in my honda modding days fbo is considered I/H/E tune. anything more like cams, valves, head porting, aftermarket intake manifold, bigger tb, bigger fuel injectors is considered a stage 2 etc. fd doesnt add hp so its related to drive train upgrades like clutch and flywheel. dr tires vs all seasons. etc.

milv may it be simple, i would not consider that a fbo. sort of like adding cam gears to a car that doesnt have it. it will need to be tuned to get anything out of it.
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      07-25-2018, 04:50 PM   #790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gT-BMW View Post
milv may it be simple, i would not consider that a fbo. sort of like adding cam gears to a car that doesnt have it. it will need to be tuned to get anything out of it.
so do most of the other mods. you're not going to make any more power than stock with a 3 stage swap and no tune.
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      07-26-2018, 10:54 AM   #791
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Originally Posted by gT-BMW View Post
fd doesnt add hp so its related to drive train upgrades like clutch and flywheel. dr tires vs all seasons. etc.
But the higher FD will add torque at the wheels which is we measure power when modding. But I agree that perhaps it isn't really part of "FBO," IMO because it's more of a preference mod...

I dunno, I'm on the fence about it. I'm tempted to say that the 328 with higher gears is absolutely preferred by an "enthusiast / spirited driver," but I've yet to personally experience the gears in this car in particular. The stock gear ratio is definitely lazy though and designed for the typical 328i owner vs. let's say the M3 owner (enthusiast).
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      07-26-2018, 01:53 PM   #792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atmosphericM View Post
But the higher FD will add torque at the wheels which is we measure power when modding. But I agree that perhaps it isn't really part of "FBO," IMO because it's more of a preference mod...

I dunno, I'm on the fence about it. I'm tempted to say that the 328 with higher gears is absolutely preferred by an "enthusiast / spirited driver," but I've yet to personally experience the gears in this car in particular. The stock gear ratio is definitely lazy though and designed for the typical 328i owner vs. let's say the M3 owner (enthusiast).
I really love the 3.73 mod. it really changes the way how the car feels, the rpms flys up real fast and i get pinned to my seat because its unexpecting. i love it. This should of been the first mod that i did.

Its real easy to install too, i used a 5/16 craftsman wrench, a 18mm socket and my teeth to install

i drove a stock 335i yesterday, im not kidding, my n/a n52 feelt faster than the 335i in 1st and 2nd gear.

6th gear passing power is amazing. sometimes ill hear a fart banger in my rear view speeding up, all i do i step on the gas and all of a sudden fart banger cant pass me. i love it.
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