[Dan_335]

Heya guys,

I have been trying to search for answers to these questions with little luck. So I am going to ask them here, seeing as I'm in Aus and these are map/fuel related.

This is all with relation to MHD flashing:

1. 93 Octane = BP Ultimate yes/no?
95 Octane = Australia doesn't have a 95 Octane pump fuel yes/no?

2. Can I leave my JB4 connected and flash just the MHD Stage 2+? (specifically not the JB4 Backend flash option)

3. If yes, once I have the MHD Stage 2+ onboard, I leave JB4 set on Map 0 and do no longer change maps via jb4?


Secondly, it seems impossible to find a comparison of MHD JB4 Backend vs MHD Stage 2+ on pump fuel. Has anyone driven both maps and are you able to give some feedback on the comparison between them.

I am currently driving the MHD JB4 Backend Flash tried both on Map2 and Map5 on BP Ultimate. I am underwhelmed, the power delivery is not aggressive enough in my opinion. Is the MHD Stage 2+ more aggressive?


Extra points: So if BP ultimate is 93 Octane, and I add Nulon Octance Booster, is it enough of an Octane boost to run the 95 map, or is this playing with fire? I'm basing this question off reading the Octane Booster review that is floating around, suggesting up to a 2 point gain with the Nulon product.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also, if people could refrain from filling this thread up with random conversation it would be appreciated. It seems every other MHD thread I have read is just filled with 30 pages of rubbish, which has made searching for information arduous....

Thanks guys

Dan

[vtl]

Originally Posted by Dan_335

Heya guys,

I have been trying to search for answers to these questions with little luck. So I am going to ask them here, seeing as I'm in Aus and these are map/fuel related.

This is all with relation to MHD flashing:

1. 93 Octane = BP Ultimate yes/no?
95 Octane = Australia doesn't have a 95 Octane pump fuel yes/no?

2. Can I leave my JB4 connected and flash just the MHD Stage 2+? (specifically not the JB4 Backend flash option)

3. If yes, once I have the MHD Stage 2+ onboard, I leave JB4 set on Map 0 and do no longer change maps via jb4?


Secondly, it seems impossible to find a comparison of MHD JB4 Backend vs MHD Stage 2+ on pump fuel. Has anyone driven both maps and are you able to give some feedback on the comparison between them.

I am currently driving the MHD JB4 Backend Flash tried both on Map2 and Map5 on BP Ultimate. I am underwhelmed, the power delivery is not aggressive enough in my opinion. Is the MHD Stage 2+ more aggressive?


Extra points: So if BP ultimate is 93 Octane, and I add Nulon Octance Booster, is it enough of an Octane boost to run the 95 map, or is this playing with fire? I'm basing this question off reading the Octane Booster review that is floating around, suggesting up to a 2 point gain with the Nulon product.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also, if people could refrain from filling this thread up with random conversation it would be appreciated. It seems every other MHD thread I have read is just filled with 30 pages of rubbish, which has made searching for information arduous....

Thanks guys

Dan

1. Yes BP ultimate is fine, don't flash the 95 as you'll need race fuel for that.

2. No, disconnect the JB4, the flash won't run right even in Map 0

I've driven a JB4 backend 335i back to back with my 135i with MHD stage 2. Both with the same level of mods as my car (downpipes intercooler tune). Similar levels of peak power but MHD had less lag and much more low end torque, even when I was running the older MHD map that isn't as responsive as the current maps.

No point running octane booster, the small bottles barely do anything to increase the octane, you would need to add so much octane booster it would much cheaper just running race fuel. Mix in E85 if you want more octane.

[Dan_335]

Thanks for the reply!

Just what I was dreading, pulling the cowling off again.... great

Looks like MHD only is the future for me then

[Socket]

MHD stage 2 flash on 98 pump fuel is all you need unless you are using a custom flash with the JB4 running the boost. Then the JB4 needs to be on map 2 with the meth settings set to on via the JB4 app (USB cable to laptop). Otherwise as Vince pointed out the MHD and JB4 won't play nice together even in map 0. In which case it's better to remove the JB4 and just run the MHD flash. Stacking JB4 and MHD is really only for custom tunes or setups with meth or Port injection where the JB4 manages boost or acts as a split second controller for the PI fuel feed. Octane additives are a waste of money IMO

[BMOmega]

I've got my JB4 on still and flashed MHD 2+ and works fine so far with JB4 disabled. What issues are there with them together?
MHD is smoother, more torque low end and feels more linear in terms of power delivery. Also burbles and pops to scare everyone in the carpark!

[Socket]

Disabled as in set on map0?

[BMOmega]

Soz. Yes, I meant map 0.

[samuelmccarthy13]

Would also be interested to know what the harm is in just setting the JB4 to map 0 and then doing the stage 2 MHD pump flash.

[Dan_335]

Having read a bit more, the guidance from Terry at BMS himself is that with the latest firmware, you need to unplug the white JB4 lead in order to stop the JB4 trying to control the boost. Then there is an option for menu 4 / item 4 to set the JB4 to monitor only mode to play nice with the MHD Stage 2 Flash.

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37242

If I have to go in and mess around with plugs with the JB4 to disable it, it might as well be fully removed while I'm in there.

[Socket]

Originally Posted by BMOmega

Soz. Yes, I meant map 0.

Ooooo I could not get this to work when the first installed stacked JB4

[Dan_335]

Well I just went ahead and pulled the JB4 out. Flashed to MHD Stage 2+ V7 beta and well let me just say... wow

I will not be putting the JB4 back in.

So a little mini review for anyone interested:

Mods: FBO
Fuel: BP Ultimate

Previously running JB4 Map5 with MHD Backend Flash. Switched between Map5 and Map2, to be honest it felt like both have a massive boost hole in the mid range. I accustomed to big turbo lag, (I have a 400rwkw R33 sitting on my lawn at the moment) but the JB4 tunes feel like something else. It picks up early then plateaus before moving to a strong finish in the top end, it's like a bit shit tbh.

I may be noticing it more after having driven the Skyline around this week, but it feels like a non-linear power delivery. I think I am also noticing it more due to having my lsd in now, whereas before all the power just dumped out through one spinning wheel, the added traction has made the boost hole more noticeable.

So out with the JB4 and in with the Stage 2+ alone. Well, wow. The boost hole does not exist with this Map. It feels like a linear power delivery all the way through to the top end. The boost comes on early and stays strong all the way through. It. is. Awesome. I doubt if anymore peak power is coming through, but the delivery is much different. I would also imagine, without an lsd, there are going to be some severe wheel spin issues earlier in the rev range.

So I guess if anyone is on the fence about pulling their JB4 out like I was, it's simple, go do it, like right now.

[Socket]

Originally Posted by Dan_335

Well I just went ahead and pulled the JB4 out. Flashed to MHD Stage 2+ V7 beta and well let me just say... wow

I will not be putting the JB4 back in.

So a little mini review for anyone interested:

Mods: FBO
Fuel: BP Ultimate

Previously running JB4 Map5 with MHD Backend Flash. Switched between Map5 and Map2, to be honest it felt like both have a massive boost hole in the mid range. I accustomed to big turbo lag, (I have a 400rwkw R33 sitting on my lawn at the moment) but the JB4 tunes feel like something else. It picks up early then plateaus before moving to a strong finish in the top end, it's like a bit shit tbh.

I may be noticing it more after having driven the Skyline around this week, but it feels like a non-linear power delivery. I think I am also noticing it more due to having my lsd in now, whereas before all the power just dumped out through one spinning wheel, the added traction has made the boost hole more noticeable.

So out with the JB4 and in with the Stage 2+ alone. Well, wow. The boost hole does not exist with this Map. It feels like a linear power delivery all the way through to the top end. The boost comes on early and stays strong all the way through. It. is. Awesome. I doubt if anymore peak power is coming through, but the delivery is much different. I would also imagine, without an lsd, there are going to be some severe wheel spin issues earlier in the rev range.

So I guess if anyone is on the fence about pulling their JB4 out like I was, it's simple, go do it, like right now.

another happy customer

[chappy]

Yes i'am a happy customer as well
I threw out my Procede and flashed Stage 1+FMIC with Alpina B3 trans, very very smooth indeed love it.
I pulled the fuel pump fuse out as it was going all the time. 38min Flash.
I went for option Linear throttle as there is too much torque in first.

[JB4-335]

The difference is the MDH maps are similar to the old COBB maps but a little more refined in the way they are very boost happy (standalone DME load based targeting). They get on boost early (which I hate) and tend to run more timing giving you that aggressive torque smack down low which ultimately results in loss of traction and people easily get fooled by thinking it's faster when it only feels faster.

The JB4 with the MHD BEF is a lot smoother so while it may not feel as fast, it definitely is.

[Dan_335]

I'm going to have to disagree with you here JB4-335, the JB4 w/ BEF is in no way the smoother of the two options. You can literally feel the stages of the map as you accelerate through the rpm.

For me, how the car feels is the primary driver of my modifications, the MHD tune feels so much more enjoyable than the JB4 BEF option. I could care less if it is slightly slower (which I don't believe, but can't practically dispute), I care about the drive, and with the MHD I believe the drive is better.

[JB4-335]

Originally Posted by Dan_335

I'm going to have to disagree with you here JB4-335, the JB4 w/ BEF is in no way the smoother of the two options. You can literally feel the stages of the map as you accelerate through the rpm.

For me, how the car feels is the primary driver of my modifications, the MHD tune feels so much more enjoyable than the JB4 BEF option. I could care less if it is slightly slower (which I don't believe, but can't practically dispute), I care about the drive, and with the MHD I believe the drive is better.

Personal opinion I guess. I have a custom tuned backend flash and will admit it's a lot better than the standard OTS ones.

I've run some of the MHD maps also and wasn't impressed. Multiple timing pulls and a little too much torque too early for me. I like the tyres to grip so with an open diff and huge amount of torque down low it just doesn't interest me.

I've been running the JB4 for almost 7 years now on multiple N54's so I'm just use to the flexibility it's got to offer. I'm switching configurations constantly to suit my needs and mood ever time I sit in my car and that's not often these days.

[Dan_335]

I do agree that with an open diff it would be a different story

[samuelmccarthy13]

Dan_335 just curious as to which MHD BEF you were running with the JB4? As i understand the standard pump fuel BEF is tailored towards US cars and Euro/Aus drivers were experiencing some lower end lag with that particular BEF.

[_ink]

Originally Posted by Dan_335

I'm going to have to disagree with you here JB4-335, the JB4 w/ BEF is in no way the smoother of the two options. You can literally feel the stages of the map as you accelerate through the rpm.

For me, how the car feels is the primary driver of my modifications, the MHD tune feels so much more enjoyable than the JB4 BEF option. I could care less if it is slightly slower (which I don't believe, but can't practically dispute), I care about the drive, and with the MHD I believe the drive is better.

I'd agree that if you were simply comparing a JB4 map 2 and a MHD stage 2, back to back - the MHD is definitely going to come out on top, no questions asked.

What JB4-335i was saying is that a JB4 stacked with a custom MHD backend is smoother than the MHD stage 2 flash only. I can't comment as I'm also stacked and have never tried the MHD flash only maps.

For me, the JB4 is only really being used as a boost controller, extra safety mechanism (more monitoring than factory DME), PI and Meth control, throttle control/smoothing, map switching, Power secondary LPFP in the stage3 kit, Real time digital gauge to monitor boost, IAT's, engine/coolant temps, AFR's etc... The jb4 is super handy when you are adding/ upgrading fuelling mods that require a trigger.

[Socket]

Originally Posted by _ink

I'd agree that if you were simply comparing a JB4 map 2 and a MHD stage 2, back to back - the MHD is definitely going to come out on top, no questions asked.

What JB4-335i was saying is that a JB4 stacked with a custom MHD backend is smoother than the MHD stage 2 flash only. I can't comment as I'm also stacked and have never tried the MHD flash only maps.

For me, the JB4 is only really being used as a boost controller, extra safety mechanism (more monitoring than factory DME), PI and Meth control, throttle control/smoothing, map switching, Power secondary LPFP in the stage3 kit, Real time digital gauge to monitor boost, IAT's, engine/coolant temps, AFR's etc... The jb4 is super handy when you are adding/ upgrading fuelling mods that require a trigger.

+1 Inky
Well stated