[Goloso17]

Hi I was hoping someone could help me get a pin out for 08 e90 for the CAS. Trying to see if it’s sending power to the starter solenoid. I believe its the relay in between that’s the problem but don’t want to be lead on a wild chase pulling out the junction box if the cas isn’t even sending the signal.(terminal 50 reads no power when car is on and foot is on brake) I checked some old threads but they are all NEWtis links. If I’m wrong on something, or you guys think I should check something else first please LET ME KNOW. Thanks in advance

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Goloso17

Hi I was hoping someone could help me get a pin out for 08 e90 for the CAS. Trying to see if it’s sending power to the starter solenoid. I believe its the relay in between that’s the problem [Problem is: there is NO intermediate Relay] ... terminal 50 reads no power when car is on and foot is on brake)...

Welcome to the Forum!
If you have a Scan Tool (Please post Make/Model), or Diagnostic Software (INPA/ISTA) that can display CAS "Terminal Diagnosis" or Voltage at various Terminals (KL) in CAS Module, KL50 ONLY shows voltage for a second or two while CAS is Activating/ attempting to activate, Starter Solenoid to Crank Engine. It should show something less (up to 2.5 V less due to voltage drop) than Battery Voltage when START is pressed with foot on Brake (AT).

So if you were looking at INPA "CAS Terminal Diagnosis" BEFORE pressing START button, with Ignition ON (don't press Brake):

1) The KL30E & KL30L (CAS Fuses) voltages should be battery voltage, say 12.5V. KL15 (Ignition Relay) and KL30G (accessory Relay) voltages should be approximately the SAME.

2) When Starter Solenoid is activated immediately upon pressing START button AND Brake, KL50 should now have ~ 10.0 to 10.5V (Voltage Drop of 2.0 to 2.5V due to Starter Draw). That is IF Starter Cranks engine & draws current. If there were an issue with Starter Solenoid & NO crank, you would see a higher voltage for KL50. If NO Start signal sent by CAS, you would see NO voltage for KL50 when START button is pressed with foot on brake.

3) CAS will NOT send the KL50 Signal voltage to Starter Solenoid IF:
a) Brake Light Switch does NOT send "Safety Switch" signal to CAS that Brake pressed (AT);
b) Gear Lever Switch does NOT send Bus Signal to CAS that P/N is selected (Park or Neutral shift position).
There are ways to determine if those signals are received by CAS; INPA is easiest.

4) If you have INPA or ISTA, you can see those KL Voltages on your screen, and do NOT need to take anything apart for Initial Diagnosis. If you do NOT have INPA/ISTA, ProTool, or Scan Tool that can display CAS Terminal Voltages, at various stages of Ignition ON, Start attempt, etc. we can still suggest tests you can do.

Please let us know:

1) Make/Model of your Scan Tool or Diagnostic Software;

2) Is ANY "Click" noise heard when START button pressed with foot on Brake? If so:
a) WHERE does "Click" come from?
b) Is there a Single Click, or multiple, ratchet-like clicks?
c) If you turn on Interior light, such as Roof Panel Lamp, does it dim when START pressed & released? For HOW Long?

3) Last-7 Characters of Vehicle VIN? So we can make sure correct ISTA Wiring Diagrams.

I will attach ISTA CAS to Starter wiring diagram & component location info to NEXT Post, so margins OK here.
George

[gbalthrop]

Attached are ISTA ScreenPrints showing CAS to Starter Solenoid wiring, with KL50 (S_50) signal going through two
Connectors in E-box: X6011 & X60531. If you have INPA/ISTA or anything that will display "CAS Terminal Voltage" when
START Button is pressed, foot on Brake, it is easier to begin diagnosis WITHOUT opening E-box, so please answer questions
in Prior Post First.

Even if you have NO ability to view CAS Terminals Status, with a Multimeter and/or a 12V+ voltage supply, you can
determine if CAS is sending KL50 Signal, AND you can test Starter Motor by "Hotwiring". Just MAKE SURE that AT
Shift Lever is in Park and Handbrake set FIRMLY, as "hot-wiring" bypasses "Safety Switches" related to Brake & P/N.

I ALSO attach two example INPA Screens, showing CAS Terminal Status on Properly-Operating N52K when
(1) Ignition ON, prior to start attempt (NOTE KLR (Radio/Brake Sw) also has voltage), and
(2) START Button Pressed with foot on Brake (AT), activating KL50 & cranking Starter.
Even if your Starter is Faulty, if KL50 Signal is being sent by CAS, there SHOULD be KL50 Voltage when START pressed.
George

[Goloso17]

Hi George, thank you so much for replying and welcoming me into the forum. I have seen you on quite a few posts and frankly, it feels like a bit of a fangirl moment.

1) Kl30E, Kl30L, Kl30g and KL15 voltage are at battery voltage.

2)when immediately pressing on the break pedal start button KL50 still Has no voltage.

3) Ok so I have checked the inputs to the CAS, and brake light switch+ vehicle stationary OK but it shows the selector lever in the drive position. I have just tried moving it to neutral same situation. the gear indicator light will follow the shifter as I move. I should also mention I have to use the neutral release switch to move it out of park.

4) thank you for you help this far as feel you have already steered me off a wild goose chase. on the head up display it shows DTC malfunction and transmission malfunction. there is no clicks at all no dimming interior lights. the car does not attempt to start at all. (which would make sense if it thinks its in drive) I Hotwired the car using the signal wire and it definitely will crank. I have the intake off so I will have to put it back on before connecting the fuel rail. the story with this one is all to common in the community. a relative left the interior light on, an attempt was made to jump it the next morning, and nothing. I have just had time to go back to it after a month now. I have a brand new battery in it, I think I just havent reset it because the code will continue to pop up even after I clear and voltage has not gone below 12 the since its been in. (I check it constantly lol)



I will attach the codes from my scanner which is a schwaben BMW Scanner 14020
my last 7 are FZ88138

any further direction would be greatly appreciated.
Sanders

[Goloso17]

Terminal readings, Messages from display, and codes from ABS DTC and FRM, respectively Edit: sorry about the orientation I tried a few times to fix it keeps screwing one up.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Goloso17

... when immediately pressing on the brake pedal start button KL50 still Has no voltage... I have checked the inputs to the CAS, and brake light switch+ vehicle stationary OK but it shows the selector lever in the drive position. I have just tried moving it to neutral same situation. the gear indicator light will follow the shifter as I move. I should also mention I have to use the neutral release switch to move it out of park... on the head up display it shows DTC malfunction and transmission malfunction. there is no clicks at all no dimming interior lights. the car does not attempt to start at all. (which would make sense if it thinks its in drive) I Hotwired the car using the signal wire and it definitely will crank... a relative left the interior light on, an attempt was made to jump it the next morning, and nothing... the code will continue to pop up [which "Code(s)"?] even after I clear and voltage has not gone below 12 the since its been in... my last 7 are FZ88138...

I'm NOT familiar with Schwaben 14020: will that Display CAS Terminal Status/ Voltage per your data above? Will that also display CAS "CAN Signals", or information received by CAS via K-CAN Bus, particularly "Gear Selected" on your AT model? That "Gear Selected" value is what CAS uses to determine if P/N has been selected (PRE-condition for sending KL50 Signal to Starter Solenoid.

You can actually SEE if EGS (Transmission Module) is sending that signal (Doesn't mean CAS is receiving it though) as follows:
1) Ignition ON; 2) Foot on Brake; 3) Shift Lever moved from P, R, N, D; 4) See if "Gear Selected" appears in Lower Instrument Cluster Display for EACH gear. If you have to press button under Shift Boot to get out of Park, SOMETHING is messed up with wiring between Shift Lever & EGS.

Inspect fuse F65, 10A, and test it electrically. It SHOULD be powered when Ignition is on, via KL30G relay. Circuit & fuse location diagram from ISTA will be attached to NEXT Post.

Please let us know what you find in those tests.
George

[gbalthrop]

Attached is ISTA ScreenPrint of F65 Circuit & Location. Also Transmission SSP with Park Lock circuit.
George

[Bims328i]

I have the old non full color Schawaben 14020SCH. There is one main wire to check for the starter.

You can try to start the car with a test light at this point to see if the starter is getting power from CAS.

Here this video will show the specific wire to test. If power is getting to this point but the starter is not turning there is good chance it is the starter.

You can also test how the person shows in the video but be careful. I tried this method when my starter went out and it wouldn't do anything even trying to turn it over, using the jank method shown in the video.

[Goloso17]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

I'm NOT familiar with Schwaben 14020: will that Display CAS Terminal Status/ Voltage per your data above? Will that also display CAS "CAN Signals", or information received by CAS via K-CAN Bus, particularly "Gear Selected" on your AT model? That "Gear Selected" value is what CAS uses to determine if P/N has been selected (PRE-condition for sending KL50 Signal to Starter Solenoid.

You can actually SEE if EGS (Transmission Module) is sending that signal (Doesn't mean CAS is receiving it though) as follows:
1) Ignition ON; 2) Foot on Brake; 3) Shift Lever moved from P, R, N, D; 4) See if "Gear Selected" appears in Lower Instrument Cluster Display for EACH gear. If you have to press button under Shift Boot to get out of Park, SOMETHING is messed up with wiring between Shift Lever & EGS.

Inspect fuse F65, 10A, and test it electrically. It SHOULD be powered when Ignition is on, via KL30G relay. Circuit & fuse location diagram from ISTA will be attached to NEXT Post.

Please let us know what you find in those tests.
George

SO I just ran the recommended tests and here are the results

1) I believe the Schwaben 14020 does display what it calls «inputs» CAN signals received by the CAS. I will attach a photo below of the scanner what information it displays. the picture was take with foot on the break which you can see «brake light switch» «ON» but you can also see that it says «selector lever» «drive position» while its in park

2) I then tried performing the test to see if the «gear selected» would appear in the instrument panel, but I have to use the button under the boot to get it out of park so it shows nothing.

3)I tested the 10A fuse resistance and It was good, and the tested the voltage and it was powered when the car was on.

4) one other thing to mention:when I went into the «control units» which is the live data of the scanner, it would not communicate with the EGS at all. it would just give the screen asking you to check if the ignition is on and battery is charged. So I double checked everything and still no communication. I feel as though this might be a quicker conclusion with ISTA because I would probably just see the module not responding lol.

I will attach the Inputs my scanner receives for the CAS

Sanders

[Goloso17]

[Goloso17]

Originally Posted by Bims328i

I have the old non full color Schawaben 14020SCH. There is one main wire to check for the starter.

You can try to start the car with a test light at this point to see if the starter is getting power from CAS.

Here this video will show the specific wire to test. If power is getting to this point but the starter is not turning there is good chance it is the starter.

You can also test how the person shows in the video but be careful. I tried this method when my starter went out and it wouldn't do anything even trying to turn it over, using the jank method shown in the video.

So I am pretty sure I am NOT getting power to the starter as the inputs for the CAS shows I don't have the right conditions to start the car so it would not send the signal. I have tested the starter by jumping at the solenoid and it definitely cranks. I don't want to start digging around in the E-box until I have to but if/when I do I'll give this a go to see if I am getting power to that point. on the other hand, I had a good laugh watching this dude try to start his car in drive and all the other shenanigans going on in that video: «either way you look at it, this shit ain't starting»

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Goloso17

... I then tried performing the test to see if the «gear selected» would appear in the instrument panel,
but I have to use the button under the boot to get it out of park so it shows nothing...

EGS NOT communicating is consistent with "Stuck in Park", having to use button under shift boot to move Shift Lever,
and NO "Gear Selected" on KOMBI Display, IF either there is NO Power to EGS Module, OR there is NO Bus communication
with Module.

Easiest "Next Step" is to check fuse F22 (15A) to see if intact. Test Visually & Electrically (continuity between fuse spades
with fuse removed). I attach Transmission Control Supply SSP, with F22 Location.

BTW, since you had the DSC failure warning on CID as well, check the 3 DSC fuses: F26, F82, F90.
George

[Goloso17]

F22 15A was blown and I now have com with EGS but still no start no crank. it seems there is no communication with DME and there are now more CAS and FRM codes. I am going to get ISTA from a friend and I will report back.
thank you very much for your help this far,
Sanders

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Goloso17

F22 15A was blown and I now have com with EGS but still no start no crank. it seems there is no communication with DME and there are now more CAS and FRM codes. I am going to get ISTA from a friend and I will report back...

ISTA won't hurt, but actually, your Schwaben & simple DMM Tests may solve the issue:
1) Did replacing F22 remove "Park Lock" and allow shift lever movement if you merely Press Brake Pedal with Ignition ON?

1a) If you move shift lever P,R,N,D, does Lower Instrument Cluster NOW display correct "Gear Selected". Does Light beside Shift Lever ALSO display same/ correct Gear Selected?

2) Check DME Supply fuses F4 & F37. Are either of them Blown? Please let me know if you need a fuse chart. One should be attached to removable panel of Glovebox (firewall side).

3) Does your Schwaben show Brake Light Signal received, and Correct Gear Selected when you display screen shown in Post #10? Does KL50 NOW show Voltage when START button pressed with foot on Brake Pedal?

4) Can Schwaben identify Modules NOT communicating, or at least show those which ARE communicating? INPA or ISTA can provide such a "Module/ Control Unit List" (communicating Modules), so it's a matter of WHAT Schawaben can Query/Hack & Display.

5) If you try to view "Live Data" in DME Module (connect to DME & select Live Data), what values are shown, DURING Starter Cranking, for RPM (per signal received by DME from Crankshaft Sensor), and Cam Angles (per signals received by DME from each Cam Position Sensor)?

6) Please list ALL Fault codes currently present, and what Scan Tool / Diagnostic Software you NOW have available, if other than Schwaben.

If EGS fuse, F22, blew (probably during attempt to Jumpstart or such), there could also be other fuses which blew. If you will simply post ALL Fault Codes, and indicate if you know how to read Freeze Frame Data or Fault Details with Schwaben, particularly in DME Module, we can make some headway.
George

[Goloso17]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

ISTA won't hurt, but actually, your Schwaben & simple DMM Tests may solve the issue:
1) Did replacing F22 remove "Park Lock" and allow shift lever movement if you merely Press Brake Pedal with Ignition ON?

1a) If you move shift lever P,R,N,D, does Lower Instrument Cluster NOW display correct "Gear Selected". Does Light beside Shift Lever ALSO display same/ correct Gear Selected?

2) Check DME Supply fuses F4 & F37. Are either of them Blown? Please let me know if you need a fuse chart. One should be attached to removable panel of Glovebox (firewall side).

3) Does your Schwaben show Brake Light Signal received, and Correct Gear Selected when you display screen shown in Post #10? Does KL50 NOW show Voltage when START button pressed with foot on Brake Pedal?

4) Can Schwaben identify Modules NOT communicating, or at least show those which ARE communicating? INPA or ISTA can provide such a "Module/ Control Unit List" (communicating Modules), so it's a matter of WHAT Schawaben can Query/Hack & Display.

5) If you try to view "Live Data" in DME Module (connect to DME & select Live Data), what values are shown, DURING Starter Cranking, for RPM (per signal received by DME from Crankshaft Sensor), and Cam Angles (per signals received by DME from each Cam Position Sensor)?

6) Please list ALL Fault codes currently present, and what Scan Tool / Diagnostic Software you NOW have available, if other than Schwaben.

If EGS fuse, F22, blew (probably during attempt to Jumpstart or such), there could also be other fuses which blew. If you will simply post ALL Fault Codes, and indicate if you know how to read Freeze Frame Data or Fault Details with Schwaben, particularly in DME Module, we can make some headway.
George

1) now the shift lever will follow the Lower Instrument Cluster will NOW display correct "Gear Selected".

2) Fuse 37 was good but some how I missed 04 the first time I checked

3) yes, the Schwaben shows Brake Light Signal received, and Correct Gear Selected and now KL50 has voltage for a few seconds while starting. headway has been made and we are now at Crank...no start

4) as far as I Know my Schawben 420 will not display display if a module is not communicating, it will simply not display information for that module if it dosent receive it. I am fairly sure it docent show intercommunications between modules but if someone knows how to LMK.

5) the schawben simply displays engine RPMs I do not not know via which sensors. when it tries to start now, it shows «engine speed: 182 RPM».

6) here are the codes I have after clearing everything, and then attempting to start.

FRM:9CAA:Terminal 30B connection faulty
CAS:A0B4: Engine start, starter opperation.
DME:CDB3 Message error (torque steering B1 h) DME receiver, DSC/QFS transmitter
DME:2F49: EWS preventing manipulation.

While attempting to start, engine makes very audible cranking sound. just strange A0B4 shows up now. have not checked voltage on B+ since I have put the new fuses in. let me know if that's something to look into
thanks,
Sanders

[Goloso17]

Hello to everyone. I now have ISTA D, and I can see that the EWS immobilizer is stuck on. I performed the Reset in ISTA and nothing. While doing all this, I discovered that my DME was replaced at some point in the life of the car probably from a junkyard one.(the DME was made in 2009 and my car is an 08 model year.) it seems when the car battery was drained and then jumped, CAS and DME got out of sync. on the fault for the EWS, the description reads: Start value not yet programed. I have been reading about it in ISTA, and I think I have some idea of how the CAS and DME function to stop the car from starting. right now I have crank, no steering lock, just the car does not start. I have ISTA-P and winkfp on the computer I'm borrowing and am very willing to learn. if anyone Would be willing to point me in a direction forward, that would be very appreciated.
Thanks,
Sanders

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Goloso17

... I now have ISTA D, and I can see that the EWS immobilizer is stuck on. [Please post a ScreenPrint of any ISTA screen that you believe shows that.] I performed the Reset in ISTA and nothing... I have ISTA-P and winkfp on the computer I'm borrowing and am very willing to learn. if anyone Would be willing to point me in a direction forward, that would be very appreciated.Sanders

My understanding from your posts in this thread is that the car ran fine until a light was left on that ran the battery down. Then apparently somehow a "Jumpstart" blew F22 fuse, powering the EGS Module resulting in Park Lock NOT being released at Ignition ON. Was fuse F4 (permanent KL30 power to DME) ALSO blown? You were NOT clear about that in post #15. If so, that would account for no communication with DME and no DME fault code appearing until AFTER you replaced F4.

If those are correct facts, then I can't understand how/why your DME needs to be "Programmed" to perform the EWS4 "Handshake" (Challenge/ Response with CAS). If attempt to jumpstart resulted in 2 different blown fuses (F4 & F22), then we MAY have additional fuse issues, & should "Start Over" in the Diagnosis process.

If you now have an operational "ISTA D" or ISTA+ DIAGNOSIS Software, I would recommend reading the first 5 pages of attached pdf: "ISTA Fault Memory & Test Plan. Then view, Save & Post a ScreenPrint of each of the following:
1) Control Unit Tree (pdf p.3);
2) Fault Memory (p.5);
3) Extra Credit: Fault Details (p.6) for any DME or CAS Fault Code;
4) Please report your current mileage/odometer reading.
George

[Goloso17]

:Quote:My understanding from your posts in this thread is that the car ran fine until a light was left on that ran the battery down. Then apparently somehow a "Jumpstart" blew F22 fuse, powering the EGS Module resulting in Park Lock NOT being released at Ignition ON. Was fuse F4 (permanent KL30 power to DME) ALSO blown? You were NOT clear about that in post #15. If so, that would account for no communication with DME and no DME fault code appearing until AFTER you replaced F4.:

1) So yes, to clarify, F4 was also blown. sorry for the misunderstanding.

2) and if its Important to clarify further, this is what the order of events are: car does not start the morning after parking it. battery voltage is very low. I believe an interior light was left on. I go to jump it with another vehicle. the BMW does not even attempt to crank. I park it for awhile until I have time to get a new battery (I live out in the country so I had to order the battery into a store in to town) I put the new battery in and still no crank. at this point all the dash lights work everything comes on except now it is giving me Transmission Warning on the head up display. I park it for the next month and then Come just coming back to it now.

3) so I can Eliminate anymore blown fuses as a possibility, is there somewhere I can find in ISTA that will have ALL the fuse locations and their power sources (when they should be on or off) for my specific model and so I can start there? correct me if im wrong but, the fuse card that Comes with the car is a generic one for all trim levels and for the E9X?
I will attach my ISTA saved pages below. My ODO reading is 149,002
thanks
Sanders

[Goloso17]

Sorry details won’t upload here’s a picture of the read out and ODO

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Goloso17

... I will attach my ISTA saved pages below. My ODO reading is 149,002

The Kilometer reading for "2F49" DME code is 183,704km = 114,148 Miles. BOTH the Fault Memory Screen, AND the Fault Details Tab for 2F49 show that Odometer reading at the moment 2F49 Fault Code was saved, and TWO instances at that mileage.

The other Codes that follow are all saved at Odometer reading 239,792 km, which is 149,000 miles. The km reading is to nearest 8km = 5 miles. The "-1" km reading for Battery Exhausted FRM code suggests one of the 4 FRM Fuses is blown, and FRM cannot receive km reading from the KOMBI Module (via Bus), hence the default mileage of "-1".

My SWAG is that the "9CAA" KL30B FRM fault indicates one of the four FRM Fuses is faulty. Those fuses (on 2008 & later E9x models) are: F41, F81, F84, F86. I can't offer an explanation of HOW that could cause NO Crank, or WHY the Immobilizer Fault (183,704 km) is listed as "Existent" or Currently Present.

What I WOULD suggest:
1) Inspect/Test the 4 FRM fuses listed above, particularly F41 & F81, both 30A; replace any blown fuse; Check F11 while there. That powers Crank Sensor.

2) Attempt to CLEAR the two FRM Fault Codes, and also the DME 2F49 code;

3) Attempt to Start (after charging Battery, if < 12.0V);

4) If NO Crank, Read Fault Memory again and post, along with Details of any CAS or FRM faults.
George