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      08-12-2018, 01:03 AM   #23
YuminNuman
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If they can do all that, why not just signal an electric upstream shutoff valve and stop the flooding. I'm sure they have that already .. right?

Of course.. https://www.amazon.com/Floodstop-Aut.../dp/B00EA426X6

Add that to the very long list of things I've invented way too late. I invented the CVT at one point.

Last edited by YuminNuman; 08-12-2018 at 01:08 AM.
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      08-13-2018, 10:16 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaye944 View Post
actually it isn't dumb, IF you have the ability, to install, maintain a water tank heater, more power to you. HD's cheapest (net) with a 6 year limited w'tee is $529, that has to be installed, the gas part (not sure in the US) joe schmo just can't hook one up.

Water tank part, anode, dip tube, drain/flush, sure that easy, but again not sure about US, we can't touch or maintain or fix the gas part.

I re-checked, wife bought house in 2003, so had the heater for 15 years, and I re-checked the math, including taxes $6300 over 15 years. So it only failed catastrophically after 15 years, and only a few minors repairs, which is pretty good.

Anyones car from new lasted 15 years?

It's basically an insurance policy, right, we pay insurance on the car, sometimes a w'tee insurance, if nothing goes wrong, you've lost x amount of dollars, your engine blows, you've made money.

Now what some people do when buying houses here, go for the rental and when it's up they buy there own one and you know that's great.

What I don;t wanna have to do in the MIDDLE of winter, try and find somone to fix replace a bust heater, this is Canada eh,

Dumb no, but plenty of people do dumb sh*t so I guess it's relative
So you just proved how dumb it is? 6 year warranty at $529 versus $6300 for 15 years. LOLOLOLOL!!
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      08-13-2018, 11:30 AM   #25
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It's only common to rent in Ontario. It is ABSOLUTE NUTS to rent. Buy for $1400 installed, big ass tank. Done.
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      08-13-2018, 12:40 PM   #26
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I always enjoy Jaye's threads. My father used to tell me how stupid some of the decisions I made as a youth were. Reading Jaye's threads are like going to Wal-Mart for an ego boost. I have read more ignorance in these 2 pages than most of the political threads I skim on here. My favorite so far is the comparison of a 15 year old hot water heater to a 15 year old car.

Not even touching trying to validate renting a hot water heater because the wife bought the house.

An analogy I use at work, feel free to use. Grandma's Beef Stew: Grandma handed down her beef stew recipe to her children. It involved using two pots. For years grandmas beef stew was made in two pots. Eventually someone asked grandma, what's the secret of the two pot method. Grandma replied, I didn't have a bigger pot.
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      08-13-2018, 12:44 PM   #27
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This is why it's so important to take your water heater out before bed to go to the bathroom. lol.

Sorry sounds horrible. Hope the repairs aren't too costly.
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      08-13-2018, 12:58 PM   #28
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I had to google this because it seemed like an absurd, weird thing to do. As others have mentioned, it does seem commonplace in Ontario but not in other provinces, at all.

I'm not sure why this seems to generally accepted there but yeah... the math does not work out, at all. A few google hits seemed to indicate that the average cost to purchase and install a typical water heater in Ontario is between $1400 to $1600. At $30 a month, the tank is paid off in four years or so... Home Depot and Lowes there offer same-day or next day installation, just like they do here. Google also shows a number of independent guys offering the same service.

We don't have gas here; we're all electric. A few years ago I replaced my 80 gallon electric unit myself. The original one was 12-ish years old and I don't know how well it was maintained. I replaced it pre-emptively, before it went bad for about $500 or so. I do drain it every year and funnel some CLR in there to do whatever marginal decalcification I can since we're on somewhat hard well water. I also replace the lower element at that time. The top only every few years. It wasn't too bad to install and the maintenance is easy enough, just a bit of a hassle. I thought getting rid of the old heater would be a pain but... our driveway is 300 feet long, all downhill from the house. I just rolled it down the driveway, put a sign on it that said "Free - For Scrap" and some guy pulled in and loaded it up before I'd even walked back up to the house.

That seems like crazy expensive piece-of-mind. Just because it's commonplace there doesn't justify it, to me. Your big box stores up there have units with a 10-year warranty for under $1000. Even at a $1000 for install you're still coming out ahead with almost half the warranty remaining, let alone the time it continues to function after 10 years. Local code/ordinance may require that you have a licensed electrician or plumber do that sort of work and that varies I'm sure, like it does here depending on local or state codes. But... That doesn't mean you *can't* do it. I'm pretty sure I've done a number of projects where I probably needed a "permit" or was supposed to hire a "professional". Right...

...and I do have a perfectly functioning 14-year-old car that's required nothing but regular maintenance. Granted it's a 2004 Miata that sees 3-season duty and low miles but... Many cars should have no problem lasting over 15 years, easy, with proper maintenance and maybe a few issues here and there. My X5, of course, required more repairs in two years than the Miata did in ten. But I knew that going in... Not sure that's a good comparison...
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      08-13-2018, 01:45 PM   #29
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It's absolutely insane.

The amount of bad math in people's finances absolutely astounds me.
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      08-13-2018, 02:38 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
It's absolutely insane.

The amount of bad math in people's finances absolutely astounds me.
And the dude digs his heels in to justify its insane price, DESPITE SEEING THE MATH in his own numbers!

I mean, he knows it cost $6,300 for 15 years, but still says it's a good deal.

I get people being insanely stupid on other things, like a paying 1% management fee for their investment portfolio, but this is just crazy.
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      08-13-2018, 06:14 PM   #31
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selective reading much ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BayMoWe335 View Post
So you just proved how dumb it is? 6 year warranty at $529 versus $6300 for 15 years. LOLOLOLOL!!
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      08-13-2018, 06:14 PM   #32
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LOL

as said, all covered under the rental agreement, no charges


Quote:
Originally Posted by knowthebattle View Post
This is why it's so important to take your water heater out before bed to go to the bathroom. lol.


Sorry sounds horrible. Hope the repairs aren't too costly.
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      08-13-2018, 06:29 PM   #33
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OMG seriously, give it a break.

EVER rented ANYTHING, a flat, a car, do you EVER get your money back, no, there's get's a point where you have paid for more than the "whatever you've rented"

Why do some people rent a property, why do people buy, why do people lease a car, why do people buy, OMG it's the same thing with renting a water heater FFS

Why do people rent out a condo, and pay maintenance charges, because, they get there snow shoveled, when there leccy goes off, or the AC brakes down, they yell at the maintainers whom there paying there money too... same principle.

In the UK... I never rented anything, I inherited all the heating, gas, electrical etc components of the house, when things broke down, I had it fixed or fixed it myself, including the very dangerous task of fixing a gas boiler, (in wall) which had a few dodgy bits of pieces. But it was my house, and I was only gonna gas or blow up myself, unlike now when I have a wife and 7 year old to consider

This is WIFE'S House, she bought it originally and apparently HERE IN CANADA at least in Ontario it's the done thing, albeit, ppl generally do NOT extend a water heater when the initial rental agreement ends they buy.

As already told you, We "cannot" even TOUCH the god damn thing, if I pull the anode or dip tube, I am not certified, I can flush it out I guess, but suspect as I am not certified that is probably "officially" a no-no, I didn't make up the rules, I just follow them. Can I, sure, will something go wrong, no, am I allowed to NO.

So I have to pay someone to fit the tank and maintain it "in theory" and if something goes wrong and my house get's flooded or blown up , guess whoes at fault. got it. it's all a big crap shoot, and your never in the shit, till your in the shit, and you'd better hope if you are in the shit, your not holding the dirty end of the stick.

I pay 30 bucks a month, anything happens, it's fixed, POM, I had 2 guy's come out at 10pm to sort me out, if there is 10inches of snow and 20 below and my tank dies, guess what, I pick up the phone.

Yes I can do math's, and yes sure, I could have bought 5 heaters, a maintenance contract, and whatever.... ok, everyone happy now, yall can now step away from the keyboard safe in the knowledge you've saved the day again,

So thanks for everyone who chimed in with kind assistance and helpful comments.

No seriously thanks

Last edited by jaye944; 08-13-2018 at 06:47 PM.
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      08-13-2018, 06:31 PM   #34
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if any mod's are wondering past, can you please close this thread

cheers
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      08-13-2018, 10:51 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaye944 View Post
actually it isn't dumb, IF you have the ability, to install, maintain a water tank heater, more power to you. HD's cheapest (net) with a 6 year limited w'tee is $529, that has to be installed, the gas part (not sure in the US) joe schmo just can't hook one up.

Water tank part, anode, dip tube, drain/flush, sure that easy, but again not sure about US, we can't touch or maintain or fix the gas part.

I re-checked, wife bought house in 2003, so had the heater for 15 years, and I re-checked the math, including taxes $6300 over 15 years. So it only failed catastrophically after 15 years, and only a few minors repairs, which is pretty good.

Anyones car from new lasted 15 years?

It's basically an insurance policy, right, we pay insurance on the car, sometimes a w'tee insurance, if nothing goes wrong, you've lost x amount of dollars, your engine blows, you've made money.

Now what some people do when buying houses here, go for the rental and when it's up they buy there own one and you know that's great.

What I don;t wanna have to do in the MIDDLE of winter, try and find somone to fix replace a bust heater, this is Canada eh,

Dumb no, but plenty of people do dumb sh*t so I guess it's relative
Just checked my receipt from the water heater I bought 10 years and 3 months ago. 50 gallon beast with a 12 year warranty that has never failed me, serves up more than enough hot water, and cost me $880 with tax and installed. So while you’ve paid $35/month on average, I’ve paid $7/month and decreasing every month it keeps working.

You’re paying 5 TIMES what I paid. Even if you doubled my $7/month since you live in America’s hat, you’re still paying 2.5X more. Totally, totally, totally insane.
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      08-14-2018, 03:23 PM   #36
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Not trying to pile on here and jaye… It seems there's a "history" of this water heater rental thing that backs up your position, at least in terms of acceptance, in your defense.

Reading a few articles and whatnot... This apparently goes back 50 years in Ontario when the energy companies subsidized water heaters and sometimes other appliances, in order to attract customers. Since then... those rental businesses were divested from the energy companies but... it seems that builders and property management companies had agreements with them to sign up new owners and tenants, for a kickback, obviously. Some articles mention people buying houses and upon signing the closing documents, found out they'd signed up for a 14-year-term "rental". When they found out about this, the "buyout" was $3500-$4500 to get out of the contract, just for the water heater. Others found out it was $15K plus to get out of "renting" the HVAC system, etc. I even found articles where people *moved* their water heater to avoid having to get a rental. You have to understand that's just super odd to us... it's plumbed in... stays with the house.

I see how it might seem like the "normal" thing to do there and understand your decision but... in the rest of Canada and all of the US... it's really "odd". I think you think folks that are critical of this, as am I... it doesn't make sense but I can see how since, there, it seems weirdly typical.

As far as "renting" goes... No, I've never paid more than it cost to buy, to rent. Not even close, at least when "buying" is an option.

Lastly, again, back to Google... You can "touch" it. Looking at Ontario codes.. You can install your own. You just have to have it inspected by a certified, licensed professional, and tagged... and... you have to be the owner of a detached house and you're good. Maybe you don't meet those parameters but we don't have that info from you. Pretty similar to where I am.. Maybe you can't touch it because of the rental agreement but... after 14 years... You should be able to get out of the contract easily. Even at inflated rates for an "emergency" call, you'd have saved a bunch of money. Like I said... I ripped out and installed an 80 gallon unit. They're *HEAVY*. But... Lowes and Home Depot wanted $79 to install anything up to 70 gallons. $249 to install anything over that. Maybe I'm cheap.

I get that you asked that this thread be closed and I understand. I think that you probably didn't get that... "renting" a water heater was TOTALLY absurd to those of us down here, and many of those above the border. "Renting" appliances and furniture, etc. seems to target the same segment as payday loan places, buy-here-pay-here-lots and pawn shops. It's never a good deal. It just seems to focus on folks who've established a history of bad financial decisions.

Last edited by amgraham; 08-14-2018 at 03:43 PM. Reason: Added info...
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      08-14-2018, 03:35 PM   #37
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In jaye's defense... I'm giving up, going his route. We went to Mid-Ohio last weekend for the Xfinity race. Pulling out, the X5 is covered in dust, because we camped. Sprayed a bunch of washer to clean the front and back windows. Low washer fluid warning light comes on... No big deal. Drive home three hours. Get the camper home, park and unhook the trailer, pull the hood release. Nothing. Ugh. Watched videos, read articles... after two hours of trying, nothing. I think I'll take it to the local indy Audi/BMW shop...
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      08-14-2018, 04:00 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaye944 View Post
OMG seriously, give it a break.

EVER rented ANYTHING, a flat, a car, do you EVER get your money back, no, there's get's a point where you have paid for more than the "whatever you've rented"

Why do some people rent a property, why do people buy, why do people lease a car, why do people buy, OMG it's the same thing with renting a water heater FFS

Why do people rent out a condo, and pay maintenance charges, because, they get there snow shoveled, when there leccy goes off, or the AC brakes down, they yell at the maintainers whom there paying there money too... same principle.

In the UK... I never rented anything, I inherited all the heating, gas, electrical etc components of the house, when things broke down, I had it fixed or fixed it myself, including the very dangerous task of fixing a gas boiler, (in wall) which had a few dodgy bits of pieces. But it was my house, and I was only gonna gas or blow up myself, unlike now when I have a wife and 7 year old to consider

This is WIFE'S House, she bought it originally and apparently HERE IN CANADA at least in Ontario it's the done thing, albeit, ppl generally do NOT extend a water heater when the initial rental agreement ends they buy.

As already told you, We "cannot" even TOUCH the god damn thing, if I pull the anode or dip tube, I am not certified, I can flush it out I guess, but suspect as I am not certified that is probably "officially" a no-no, I didn't make up the rules, I just follow them. Can I, sure, will something go wrong, no, am I allowed to NO.

So I have to pay someone to fit the tank and maintain it "in theory" and if something goes wrong and my house get's flooded or blown up , guess whoes at fault. got it. it's all a big crap shoot, and your never in the shit, till your in the shit, and you'd better hope if you are in the shit, your not holding the dirty end of the stick.

I pay 30 bucks a month, anything happens, it's fixed, POM, I had 2 guy's come out at 10pm to sort me out, if there is 10inches of snow and 20 below and my tank dies, guess what, I pick up the phone.

Yes I can do math's, and yes sure, I could have bought 5 heaters, a maintenance contract, and whatever.... ok, everyone happy now, yall can now step away from the keyboard safe in the knowledge you've saved the day again,

So thanks for everyone who chimed in with kind assistance and helpful comments.

No seriously thanks
WTF did I just read??? Being in the shit and being in the shit and holding the shit end of a stick sounds like a bad time all the way around. I would have just bought a hot water heater, beats the hell out of all this shit standing and stickery. Well guys, looks like we can all go home now. the guy who started the thread and wanted to fill us in on his terrible decision making skills....again...just wants the thread closed....again.

This guy just blew up on us like my ex-wife used to when she had nothing to say but had to say it anyway.
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      08-14-2018, 10:21 PM   #39
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Wouldn't be the first time someone woke up at 2 am and found himself in hot water with his wife...I know it's happened to me more times than I care to admit.
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