[DrDomer]

Originally Posted by bnj

What do you mean "silly"? Would it make more sense to find a shop where you can buy the parts at $100 or $1000? That would be silly in my books.

Can you elaborate which is the theory behind your hypothesis that the described method would "blow up his BMW"?

You're right, I have no idea how to tune a BMW 335i. I do know where to find the ECU and that's about it. I HAD to find it to install my Procede. At least I was able to do that my self. So far 2K miles and no problems.

Part of my critique of good ol' Sparky is his berating of others' tuning methods, and I guess it just seems simplistic and somewhat scary to use cheap off the shelf resistors that could fail to tune a $45K car. I suppose there's this detonation issue that people keep bringing up as a way a N54 could "blow up". In all reality, the phrase "blow up" was a euphemism for any bad result his tuning may cause. Now maybe Sparky knows a lot more than he's let on this whole time (and maybe guys like Shiv know a lot less). I guess we'll see. There... I ate some crow.

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by Dr_Dirt

+1
You can tweak it for sure, but don't you need software to monitor and make corrections?
I'm assuming the procede, xede use software in this way but I really have no idea.
Of course the procede V2 sounds like it will tap into the Double Vanos and alter that as well. I wonder how we can turn that knob???
good luck Terry!

Yeah I use autella dynoscan, I found a used copy on ebay for around $100. You need their CAN version (even though the bus is ISO) so it can be reflashed with the latest firmware.

The VANOS will take a microcontroller. If the V2 gains are great I'll look in to it.

[Garissimo]

Originally Posted by bnj

What do you mean "silly"? Would it make more sense to find a shop where you can buy the parts at $100 or $1000? That would be silly in my books.

Yet you ponied up over $1000 for your own PROCEDE so obviously you don't think it's too silly to pay for a professional grade tuning solution.

Originally Posted by bnj

Can you elaborate which is the theory behind your hypothesis that the described method would "blow up his BMW"?

The guys got balls, I'll give him that. As far as blowing up his BMW, do you think it's a great idea to drive around with a bread boarded prototype circuit underhood? He's also doesn't seem to have a way of controlling A/F ratios yet. Do you know what more boost without enough fuel leads to?

[lawdude]

A picture of Terry's "****** Research and Developmental Lab" along with a diagram of one of his first improvements of an otherwise acceptable device - the "****** Alarm Clock":

[A. Hansen]

I'm not here to flame you... not at all, but...

Electronics is a part of my daily work, and it goes Way further than this.

If you open the Haltech Interceptor (this is what the P. basicly is).
You must admit it' s a lot more than a basic setup as you did.

http://haltech.com/downloads/Interceptor%20Manual.pdf

Hopefully you agree..

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by lawdude

A picture of Terry's "****** Research and Developmental Lab" along with a diagram of one of his first improvements of an otherwise acceptable device - the "****** Alarm Clock":

lol, I'll have to post a picture of my garage one of these guys. Car parts and junk all over the place.

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by A. Hoogstraate

I'm not here to flame you... not at all, but...

Electronics is a part of my daily work, and it goes Way further than this.

If you open the Haltech Interceptor (this is what the P. basicly is).
You must admit it' s a lot more than a basic setup as you did.

http://haltech.com/downloads/Interceptor%20Manual.pdf

Hopefully you agree..

Yes, the interceptor/xede are programmable microcontrollers. These are obviously a lot more advanced, although much less complicated than many think. You can buy a "Microcontroller 101" kit at Radio Shack for $79 that includes USB upload, several I/O channels, software, and a book. Once you develop a circuit, the microcontroller chips are less than $10 in many cases.

Once I master discrete components I’ll work my way up to microcontrollers, but I don’t think a microcontroller is required to achieve procede/xede v1 type results (~330-350rwhp)

[e.n335]

****** is far further in R&D as you expect . Luckily I got a spy-picture:

[IMG]http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/9997/******gh6.jpg[/IMG]

Do not run out of patience ...

[Dr_Dirt]

Originally Posted by Garissimo

Yet you ponied up over $1000 for your own PROCEDE so obviously you don't think it's too silly to pay for a professional grade tuning solution.



The guys got balls, I'll give him that. As far as blowing up his BMW, do you think it's a great idea to drive around with a bread boarded prototype circuit underhood? He's also doesn't seem to have a way of controlling A/F ratios yet. Do you know what more boost without enough fuel leads to?

I would think the A/F ratio would be controlled by the ECU.

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by Garissimo

He's also doesn't seem to have a way of controlling A/F ratios yet. Do you know what more boost without enough fuel leads to?

The difference between v1 and v2 is this circuit controls AF ratios. I'm not excited about driving around with a breadboard in the car either. Once I know it works and dial in the tune, I'll put it in a potted project box.

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by Dr_Dirt

I would think the A/F ratio would be controlled by the ECU.

It is, although you can trick it in to running richer/leaner with the o2 sensors.

[Garissimo]

Originally Posted by Terry335

The difference between v1 and v2 is this circuit controls AF ratios. I'm not excited about driving around with a breadboard in the car either. Once I know it works and dial in the tune, I'll put it in a potted project box.

My bad. You have limited control of A/F ratios by adjusting the IAT sensor. Best of luck to you. It sounds like what you're going to wind up with is essentially the same as a Turbo Tuner.

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by Garissimo

My bad. You have limited control of A/F ratios by adjusting the IAT sensor. Best of luck to you. It sounds like what you're going to wind up with is essentially the same as a Turbo Tuner.

Actually the turbo tuner doesn't even control the IAT sensor, but that's another story all together. The IAT has a very minor effect on AF from my testing.

This circuit attenuates the O2 sensors (did you look at the picture???) for direct control of A/F just like a procede/xede. It does not effect IAT.

[A. Hansen]

You can also buy them second hand.
Maybe you have luck and find it somewhere in a trunk (thrown away)

Then you have to buy the connectors to connect it.
Then you have to make a loom for it.

How many hours you think it will take to write the software (visual)
to achieve the same as they did with the Haltech software ?

Then you have to make a custom map, how many hours will it take to do this ?

If you count all this work toghether.....
In my opinion $1300 is not to expensive.

[bnj]

Originally Posted by Garissimo

Yet you ponied up over $1000 for your own PROCEDE so obviously you don't think it's too silly to pay for a professional grade tuning solution.

You are right. Obviously.

Both of ****** and Procede have good value and form an efficient frontier of solutions. ****** is the best bang for the buck, but many go for Procede and some go even further for an exhaust on top of a piggyback. The hp/$ follows diminishing returns. Whatever of the above one prefers and chooses, it makes perfect sense.

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by A. Hoogstraate

You can also buy them second hand.
Maybe you have luck and find it somewhere in a trunk (thrown away)

Then you have to buy the connectors to connect it.
Then you have to make a loom for it.

How many hours you think it will take to write the software (visual)
to achieve the same as they did with the Haltech software ?

Then you have to make a custom map, how many hours will it take to do this ?

If you count all this work toghether.....
In my opinion $1400 is not to expensive.

I'm not suggesting a DIY microcontroller makes any sense for most, but if I were to figure it out and develop the software, I'd hope to sell a lot more than 1 unit. Something like that could work on any car, you'd be competing with Haltech and Chip Torque.

That aside, say this simple circuit could safely put out 320rwhp for $10. That would make sense, right?

[DrDomer]

Originally Posted by Garissimo

Do you know what more boost without enough fuel leads to?

Can you imagine showing up to the BMW dealership with a 335i with a blown motor and that 1960era "******" prototype under the hood? The technician's probably wouldn't even want an explanantion. As for being transparent to the ECU... that's a whole 'nother story.

[A418t81]

Excellent Terry

To all those people who think Terry is going to blow up his car. That might be the case if something were to happen to his exposed circuit, however the manner in which he is getting the car to behave as he prefers is the exact same manner in which the "real" piggybacks work as well.

[A. Hansen]

I don't think he's going to blow up his car.

He only have to be carefull to tweak the lambda signal this way.

Terry... is the chip you use fast enough ?

[bnj]

Originally Posted by A. Hoogstraate

You can also buy them second hand.
Maybe you have luck and find it somewhere in a trunk (thrown away)

Then you have to buy the connectors to connect it.
Then you have to make a loom for it.

How many hours you think it will take to write the software (visual)
to achieve the same as they did with the Haltech software ?

Then you have to make a custom map, how many hours will it take to do this ?

If you count all this work toghether.....
In my opinion $1400 is not to expensive.

So how many ******s should he sell to get to break even?

Looks like he is doing this for fun, not even trying to get any return for the hours spent.

Usually one even pays for each hour for a hobby. This must be one of the cheapest hobbies

[gonzo]

If you count all this work toghether.....
In my opinion $1400 is not to expensive.

Example of me in pic.

[DrDomer]

Originally Posted by A418t81

Excellent Terry

To all those people who think Terry is going to blow up his car. That might be the case if something were to happen to his exposed circuit.

EXACTLY! How many of you would drive around with that breadboard under your hood? We're talking about very inexpensive, easily fatigueable parts, aren't we? I never took anything but one High School and 2 University physics courses (and I have 1/10000th the knowledge Terry does), but aren't these type of components unreliable? Anyways, it seems he knows what he's doing, but he's using components I wouldn't trust in my baby. It's almost like he's going through the tuning process from the ground up. Aren't there premade circuits like he alluded to that would allow him to tune without risking his baby? Again... I'm a moron.