[5soko]

Originally Posted by Terry335

Around .5-.75psi, we're still testing it so I'm not exactly sure. On the dyno I picked up ~13rwhp with it. Prob .1th/1mph at the track.

thanks for the info, but is that even but dyno felt. rather stick with the R as a upgrade and not push anything.

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by 5sokol335icoupe

thanks for the info, but is that even but dyno felt. rather stick with the R as a upgrade and not push anything.

Just depends whether the customer wants pump gas performance or race gas performance. I run the hot pill & R on race gas myself.

[Vinobien]

Funny it used to be that everyone was all over the Procede. It sure has lost its steam. My 1.47 is off the car and I'm still waiting for v2. Should I sell for a JB2 or SSTT?

[5soko]

Originally Posted by Vinobien

Funny it used to be that everyone was all over the Procede. It sure has lost its steam. My 1.47 is off the car and I'm still waiting for v2. Should I sell for a JB2 or SSTT?

i think u will miss the power and the adjustability. PROcede has a pretty good reputation with the products aswell. some rough edges and customer service issues which have taken care of tho but still good.

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by Vinobien

Funny it used to be that everyone was all over the Procede. It sure has lost its steam. My 1.47 is off the car and I'm still waiting for v2. Should I sell for a JB2 or SSTT?

Sell your procede for 1200, get JB2R (479) and then get some DPs....

(I know you were joking by the way, but had to say something)

[2e9x's]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

While I understand you thoughts, every single one of these piggybacks can void the warranty EQUALLY. The dealer could doesn't even know what a PROcede vs. JB vs. Helix, etc. even means or do they probably care. You modded a car that produced more power to your engine and if something there fails, then they just care that you modded you car to produce more power. To make the argument that one voids the warranty less than the other is simply not solid ground to stand upon.

You are right in concept insofar as your assertions apply to piggybacks, sort of. The warranty covers every system in the car. If I have the SSTT and an ABS sensor fails, does the TT void that aspect of the warranty? Not at all because they are totally unrelated. The manufacturer could never prove that the aftermarket part caused the failure.

Conversely with a piggyback I think BMW would have a much easier time proving that messing with the car's main wiring harness led to the same hypothetical ABS failure. By violating that harness (regardless of which piggyback you attach) you subject every mechanical and electrical system on this car to the risk of a warranty problem. While you may or may not win that battle with BMW, is it worth the risk for MAYBE a fraction of a second on a 1/4 mile or the $250 difference? My personal answer was no.

Ponder this...if the SSTT is only making more power by tricking the ECU into doing what it otherwise would do given certain conditions, how can the dealer possibly know that it happened? So long as the SSTT does not go past the point of the car's built-in ability, what's the problem from a warranty perspective?

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by White05X3

Ponder this...if the SSTT is only making more power by tricking the ECU into doing what it otherwise would do given certain conditions, how can the dealer possibly know that it happened?

This is the same thing that JB does....(i believe)

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by White05X3

Ponder this...if the SSTT is only making more power by tricking the ECU into doing what it otherwise would do given certain conditions, how can the dealer possibly know that it happened? So long as the SSTT does not go past the point of the car's built-in ability, what's the problem from a warranty perspective?

The fallacy in your logic is all the piggybacks/tuners do basically the same thing, the real difference is in what connectors they mount too, what sensors they manipulate, and how much they raise the boost. But they all raise boost above the factory levels.

If done properly the dealer can't detect it, but that doesn't change the reality of what is happening. You are raising the boost above the factory level for more power.

[Vinobien]

Originally Posted by kyleh4852

Sell your procede for 1200, get JB2R (479) and then get some DPs....

(I know you were joking by the way, but had to say something)

Not joking at all ...I am reaching the end due to frustration and tech concerns. People that know more than me are jumping ship - so am I in the shitter missing the fact that the ship is sinking around me?

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by Vinobien

People that know more than me are jumping ship - so am I in the shitter missing the fact that the ship is sinking around me?

Dont really know how to comment on that....I believe that Eugen jumped ship because of what he felt like was unresolved issues, and also his individual opinion on boost levels. There are plenty of other people staying with PROcede that are very knowledgeable (scalbert is one off the top of my head), so I wouldn't leave for that sole reason alone.

Off-topic I know, sorry guys.....

[musc]

JB2 controls fuel, SSTT doesn't. JB2 with no knock retard FTW.

[E90 335i]

Originally Posted by catm3

JB2 with no knock retard.

I am just speshul, OKAY?

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by E90 335i

I am just speshul, OKAY?

[2e9x's]

Originally Posted by Terry335

The fallacy in your logic is all the piggybacks/tuners do basically the same thing, the real difference is in what connectors they mount too, what sensors they manipulate, and how much they raise the boost. But they all raise boost above the factory levels.

If done properly the dealer can't detect it, but that doesn't change the reality of what is happening. You are raising the boost above the factory level for more power.

The Turbo Tuner, to my understanding does NOT raise the boost above what the ECU is willing and able to do if necessary. If that were not so, wouldn't the car throw a code since there would be too great of a difference between the TMAP sensor and the boost sensor downstream of the throttle body in the intake manifold?

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by White05X3

The Turbo Tuner, to my understanding does NOT raise the boost above what the ECU is willing and able to do if necessary. If that were not so, wouldn't the car throw a code since there would be too great of a difference between the TMAP sensor and the boost sensor downstream of the throttle body in the intake manifold?

No, the map sensor in the intake manifold does not monitor boost. The ECU doesn't complain because it doesn't know the boost has been raised. If it did, it would.

[dArNeLLi]

is it possible that the jb2 will be as simple as a plug and play like the sstt is?

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by dArNeLLi

is it possible that the jb2 will be as simple as a plug and play like the sstt is?

No, never. You can't access the sensors to do the tune to my standards without going in to the ECU area.

[5soko]

Originally Posted by catm3

JB2 controls fuel, SSTT doesn't. JB2 with no knock retard FTW.

[E90 335i]

Originally Posted by kyleh4852

and that new CAI right?? Looking forward to both....

Not sure if the intake is going to fit on the Crown Vic...or the JB2H

[2e9x's]

Originally Posted by Terry335

No, the map sensor in the intake manifold does not monitor boost. The ECU doesn't complain because it doesn't know the boost has been raised. If it did, it would.

OK, I get that...sorry, some of this I am still trying to figure out. It is complex.

The MAP sensor after the throttle valve measures the actual pressure in the intake manifold. That actual pressure is determined, in part, by how much boost there is. So the TMAP is tricked to raise boost, which increase is seen by the MAP sensor in the form of increased actual manifold pressure. If the MAP is expecting to see 8 psi, but sees 11, or 12, or 15, and there is no modification to the signal coming from the MAP sensor, shouldn't that trip a code? Or does the ECU presume, up to a point, that the difference is caused by environmental variables?

Assume for a moment that you take a car that is at sea level. The turbo makes 8 psi of boost. The MAP sensor sees "x" value of actual manifold pressure. The ECU recognizes that as a correct value.

Now, turn the boost up to 11 psi while still at sea level by tricking the TMAP. You would agree that the MAP would read a higher amount of actual pressure because there would, in fact be more pressure. Right? So the ECU thinks it is sending 8 psi, and the MAP is seeing 11 psi worth of actual pressure.

How does the ECU account for that difference if the MAP sensor signal is not altered?

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by White05X3

OK, I get that...sorry, some of this I am still trying to figure out. It is complex.

The MAP sensor after the throttle valve measures the actual pressure in the intake manifold. That actual pressure is determined, in part, by how much boost there is. So the TMAP is tricked to raise boost, which increase is seen by the MAP sensor in the form of increased actual manifold pressure. If the MAP is expecting to see 8 psi, but sees 11, or 12, or 15, and there is no modification to the signal coming from the MAP sensor, shouldn't that trip a code? Or does the ECU presume, up to a point, that the difference is caused by environmental variables?

Assume for a moment that you take a car that is at sea level. The turbo makes 8 psi of boost. The MAP sensor sees "x" value of actual manifold pressure. The ECU recognizes that as a correct value.

Now, turn the boost up to 11 psi while still at sea level by tricking the TMAP. You would agree that the MAP would read a higher amount of actual pressure because there would, in fact be more pressure. Right? So the ECU thinks it is sending 8 psi, and the MAP is seeing 11 psi worth of actual pressure.

How does the ECU account for that difference if the MAP sensor signal is not altered?

The sensor in the intake doesn't measure boost beyond say 2psi, so as long as the signals match up to that point the only sensor you need to manipulate is the tmap sensor.

The way this actually works is simpler than you think. You just reduce the signal going in to the tmap sensor, which tricks the ECU in to giving more boost. If at any point the ECU determines you are running more boost than is registering on the sensor (e.g. solenoid duty cycle), it throws a limp and "turns you in". So its very important to not get those limp codes under boost as you can't clear them yourself.

Of course the JB also works the o2 sensors for more fuel, which makes the tune much better than say only adjusting the tmap, but that is another thread all together.

[2e9x's]

Originally Posted by Terry335

The sensor in the intake doesn't measure boost beyond say 2psi, so as long as the signals match up to that point the only sensor you need to manipulate is the tmap sensor.

The way this actually works is simpler than you think. You just reduce the signal going in to the tmap sensor, which tricks the ECU in to giving more boost. If at any point the ECU determines you are running more boost than is registering on the sensor (e.g. solenoid duty cycle), it throws a limp and "turns you in". So its very important to not get those limp codes under boost as you can't clear them yourself.

Of course the JB also works the o2 sensors for more fuel, which makes the tune much better than say only adjusting the tmap, but that is another thread all together.

Is this why when you were running the SSTT you bypassed the rear boost solenoid?

The MAP tolerates a differential of .3 bar, which is about 4.2 psi. Above that, the BOV's open and bleed boost. Doesn't that suggest that BMW anticipated the car running, under certain conditions, at up to 12.2 psi?