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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > N52 ESS Supercharger issues



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      07-27-2019, 02:12 PM   #45
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If anyone is interested in selling their supercharger kit for the N52. Let me know
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      07-28-2019, 12:32 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYBulldog View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaellcoates View Post
Hey NYBulldog what port did you tap for the P3 analog boost reading?
My shop recommended this as a clear spot for it. They put a small nozzle. Worked perfect. Probably the only thing that worked perfect lmao.

you're awesome. thank you!
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      07-28-2019, 12:41 AM   #47
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The port right behind the throttle body which is otherwise plugged should work just fine as well, without drilling anything. Any reason they didn't use that?
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      07-28-2019, 08:56 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by CRE View Post
The port right behind the throttle body which is otherwise plugged should work just fine as well, without drilling anything. Any reason they didn't use that?
I can see two reasons maybe?

1: not having to pull the tubes and SC to get back to that port, I'd imagine it's kind of a pain in the ass to get to with everything hooked up and installed.

2: better position for PSI? I've read to avoid next to the TB because it's directly in the flow and can give bouncy signal? I'm assuming that as long as you lube the bits and tap (that's what she said) you can drill with the IM while it's on. Any little pieces of plastic that fall into it will just get gobbled up and burned in the engine with no real issues? If this is true, I could drill and tap 6 nozzles on top of the IM for meth. I was considering using these silicone nozzle bungs and spraying directly into the charge pipe but here it's far more effective to spray directly into the IM tracks, especially since you can adjust each channel directly (poor design of N52/54 IM, uneven air distribution?)
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      07-28-2019, 10:29 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaellcoates View Post
I can see two reasons maybe?

1: not having to pull the tubes and SC to get back to that port, I'd imagine it's kind of a pain in the ass to get to with everything hooked up and installed.

2: better position for PSI? I've read to avoid next to the TB because it's directly in the flow and can give bouncy signal? I'm assuming that as long as you lube the bits and tap (that's what she said) you can drill with the IM while it's on. Any little pieces of plastic that fall into it will just get gobbled up and burned in the engine with no real issues? If this is true, I could drill and tap 6 nozzles on top of the IM for meth. I was considering using these silicone nozzle bungs and spraying directly into the charge pipe but here it's far more effective to spray directly into the IM tracks, especially since you can adjust each channel directly (poor design of N52/54 IM, uneven air distribution?)
There's a port on the side of the intake manifold where the throttle body mounts, for the EVAP line from the fuel tank, that is capped for the install. It doesn't require removing the supercharger at all. Even if it did the SC takes 45 minutes to remove and reinstall (been there done that last Friday). If the TB were actually used on the N52 I would agree with the concerns about an erratic signal but on the Nxx series engines it's just a failsafe and only closes when the ECU detects a critical fault or an engine stop.. In those cases it closes fully. I would be more concerned with erratic signals due to having it close to the DISA valves which are constantly changing the airflow and that can cause pulsations in the signal before and behind the valves. But, we're overthinking it. A pulse in the boost over a second or so is nothing and on an analogue gauge you'd never even see it.

I like your thoughts on cylinder specific control for the methanol injection. The one problem that I see there is by not using a unified supply you're much more likely to suffer a catastrophic failure should one bank go lean. With a uniformly saturated intake charge if things go lean you have a much better chance of the ECU seeing the issue and adding fuel and pulling timing across the board or diving into limp mode and the engine surviving. Unless you're running a well implemented standalone with EGT sensors on each exhaust runner it could end very poorly. You have to be certain each injector is flowing the same rate and be able to measure and adjust for it. One injector lagging slightly behind the others on an aggressive tune will eventually pit that given piston until it has the peaks that will start causing some serious detonation. On the stock ECU I wouldn't go that route. Your reasoning for it spot on though, it would be excellent if you have controls in place.

PS, I hate silicone taps, the potential for boost leaks along with the possibility of the atomized methanol condensing as it passes through the long ass intake plenum sucks.
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      07-29-2019, 04:05 PM   #50
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Ok, so we're back to a baseline MAF tuning. Bob had me hook to the MAF signal wire back up and reflash. Car idled solid (famous last words) always seems to after clearing adaptation on each tune so we'll see how it is tonight. Still a little puddery in light to medium throttle but wasn't terrible. Did do a couple WOT pulls and a 0-80 in which I recorded. Not impressive, it's a base tune, there was a definite hiccup in second and I was running around 120 IAT (pre-blower temps so you know it was probably 180+).

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      07-29-2019, 06:04 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaellcoates View Post
Ok, so we're back to a baseline MAF tuning. Bob had me hook to the MAF signal wire back up and reflash. Car idled solid (famous last words) always seems to after clearing adaptation on each tune so we'll see how it is tonight. Still a little puddery in light to medium throttle but wasn't terrible. Did do a couple WOT pulls and a 0-80 in which I recorded. Not impressive, it's a base tune, there was a definite hiccup in second and I was running around 120 IAT (pre-blower temps so you know it was probably 180+).

Thanks for posting that. Please make another video once you get it sorted, I’m sure there are a few of us wondering how well the supercharger can work in our platforms once sorted out.
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      07-30-2019, 06:23 AM   #52
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Thanks for posting that. Please make another video once you get it sorted, I’m sure there are a few of us wondering how well the supercharger can work in our platforms once sorted out.

+1. I wouldn't be opposed to running one of their simplest setups with the right size pulley for a little more fun. Nothing crazy, but 5-6 psi would perhaps be just the little bit more pep the car could use while trying to keep things safe!
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      07-30-2019, 11:19 PM   #53
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It makes the car feel like I think it should have from the factory... But I've always thought Z4s are slow. It's a big improvement though. The standard pulley that comes with the ESS kits is 120mm and at sealevel will provide 5 to 6 psi of boost. I'm running a smaller pulley due to the altitude I'm at to make up for the thinner air. While it's not the fastest car I've owned, I still think it was well worth it. Soon, I plan on adding a meth injection system and probably moving to smaller pulley than the 115mm I'm currently running.
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      07-31-2019, 06:25 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRE View Post
It makes the car feel like I think it should have from the factory... But I've always thought Z4s are slow. It's a big improvement though. The standard pulley that comes with the ESS kits is 120mm and at sealevel will provide 5 to 6 psi of boost. I'm running a smaller pulley due to the altitude I'm at to make up for the thinner air. While it's not the fastest car I've owned, I still think it was well worth it. Soon, I plan on adding a meth injection system and probably moving to smaller pulley than the 115mm I'm currently running.
Yeah...sounds like all the fun is above the 4K range. That is what I like so much about my 128i vs. my Corvette. Power delivery is so completely opposite!
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      07-31-2019, 12:49 PM   #55
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Update.

I modified the silicone intake extension to fit as well as modified the air/brake duct to allow the filter to sit in there. I was just getting way too high of IATs with the filter attached straight to the hard plastic pipe (average 120f with ambient 90, measured pre-blower). To add to the long list of parts and instructions that were misfitting or incorrect, this particular silicone extension was way too long. It wasn't until I talked with NYbulldog that I found out, he also had one too long and received a shorter one for ESS. I did reach out to AJ but haven't heard back, so I just trimmed the longer one and made it work. I'll attached pics of the original and after modification, took about 5" off of it.

I order an IAT relocation PnP harness from Turner. I'll be installing that into the manifold to get accurate IAT post blower. My research tells me the V3 until will increase anywhere from 30-50 degrees. This should help the tuning immensely. Bob is workout on an E85 tune as well. I'm not going to kid myself, I'll be running e85 blend almost exclusively to aid in lowering IAT so why not get starting on it now, especially since it'll help immediately. I'll probably switch over to 93 in the winter time for better protection.

Still haven't installed the boost gauge, I'll tackle that in the next couple days but will try to use the port of the back of the TB that's plugged up now.
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      07-31-2019, 08:39 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaellcoates View Post
Update.

I order an IAT relocation PnP harness from Turner. I'll be installing that into the manifold to get accurate IAT post blower.
Very interested in that! I always felt one of the issue of this SC setup is to have the IAT located near the intake not post blower, it just makes no sense. This will be even worse if you use small pulley.

May I ask what brand of PnP IAT relocation kit are you using? Where are you planning for the new location?

By the way, try make a shield of some sort on the bumper where the intake is to stop hydro-lock, and make sure you park in a safe location.... I was so worried yesterday when this happened;



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      07-31-2019, 08:52 PM   #57
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I've got some dyno pulls scheduled for Saturday morning.

I'll be adding that IAT kit too once I get a methanol injection kit... so I can keep from making repeat trips for tuning.Good find, thanks for sending me the link. Meth injection and perhaps a 110mm pulley would probably make my car rather respectable.

I REALLY want to figure out a way to reroute the intake on my SC. There's no room to go under or between the SC and the strut tower, but I may be able to make a triangular duct out of fiberglass to get past the strut tower and not have a massive bottle neck. Otherwise, I'm probably going to use one of those goofy electric superchargers and enough pipe to pull are from behind the grill and pump it in the direction of the air filter.


Kubricks, they make couplers to prevent hydrolocking. I'll try to find one and post a link. They're just a coupler with a port and valve, when the filter is submerged the suction in the intake spikes and the valve opens to allow air in so the engine can't pull in water. There are also inline air filters which you place further up the intake path which don't really pull much air through until the primary is saturated or submerged.


This is the relocation kit MichaelCoates found: https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-5...SABEgJbEvD_BwE
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      07-31-2019, 09:16 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRE View Post
I've got some dyno pulls scheduled for Saturday morning.

I'll be adding that IAT kit too once I get a methanol injection kit... so I can keep from making repeat trips for tuning.Good find, thanks for sending me the link. Meth injection and perhaps a 110mm pulley would probably make my car rather respectable.

I REALLY want to figure out a way to reroute the intake on my SC. There's no room to go under or between the SC and the strut tower, but I may be able to make a triangular duct out of fiberglass to get past the strut tower and not have a massive bottle neck. Otherwise, I'm probably going to use one of those goofy electric superchargers and enough pipe to pull are from behind the grill and pump it in the direction of the air filter.


Kubricks, they make couplers to prevent hydrolocking. I'll try to find one and post a link. They're just a coupler with a port and valve, when the filter is submerged the suction in the intake spikes and the valve opens to allow air in so the engine can't pull in water. There are also inline air filters which you place further up the intake path which don't really pull much air through until the primary is saturated or submerged.


This is the relocation kit MichaelCoates found: https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-5...SABEgJbEvD_BwE
Thanks for the information!
I am planning to have another tune on dyno after I rebuilt my engine not long ago, might as well figure out how to relocate the IAT and do that all in one go.
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      07-31-2019, 10:16 PM   #59
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I can understand why they didn't include it in the kit from the start, it involves a lot more tweaking than is practical than just a few back and forth remote tunes, but a blow through setup is always the best way to go with a forced induction setup. Although, car manufacturers have usually found draw through sufficient. With the intake pulling air from within the engine bay though blow through is definitely the way to go.

Where I'm on the fence about the placement of a boost signal in the manifold due to fluctuations, an IAT sensor should be fine in the manifold as the sensor's feedback is buffered.It's matter of how they're constructed, there may be fluctuations in velocity and density but the temperature will be more consistent and thermistors only can only see the change so fast.

Last edited by CRE; 07-31-2019 at 10:28 PM..
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      08-01-2019, 07:31 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRE View Post
I can understand why they didn't include it in the kit from the start, it involves a lot more tweaking than is practical than just a few back and forth remote tunes, but a blow through setup is always the best way to go with a forced induction setup. Although, car manufacturers have usually found draw through sufficient. With the intake pulling air from within the engine bay though blow through is definitely the way to go.

Where I'm on the fence about the placement of a boost signal in the manifold due to fluctuations, an IAT sensor should be fine in the manifold as the sensor's feedback is buffered.It's matter of how they're constructed, there may be fluctuations in velocity and density but the temperature will be more consistent and thermistors only can only see the change so fast.
Yeah the IAT probe will be on the back side of the IM away from the DISA.

Not sure why? But now the car idles like complete shit. Mind you we are still in the tune using the MAF, either A) like every tune I've had, car runs well immediately after resetting adaptation and poor the next day. Or B) the new intake placement someone changing the turbulence on the MAF causing issues with closed loop fueling. Car seems fine while cruising, but idling it's super lean (17-20 AFR)

Side note: IATs where the same as ambient while cruising, hot damn!
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      08-01-2019, 10:23 AM   #61
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17 -20 isn't rich, that's crazy lean. Engine damaging lean. 16.1 is about the leanest you want to see at idle.
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      08-01-2019, 10:34 AM   #62
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17 -20 isn't rich, that's crazy lean. Engine damaging lean. 16.1 is about the leanest you want to see at idle.
Not sure why I said rich; totally meant lean. It's been adjusted and corrected via tune. Will data log and test during lunch
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      08-01-2019, 07:06 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRE View Post
I've got some dyno pulls scheduled for Saturday morning.

I'll be adding that IAT kit too once I get a methanol injection kit... so I can keep from making repeat trips for tuning.Good find, thanks for sending me the link. Meth injection and perhaps a 110mm pulley would probably make my car rather respectable.

I REALLY want to figure out a way to reroute the intake on my SC. There's no room to go under or between the SC and the strut tower, but I may be able to make a triangular duct out of fiberglass to get past the strut tower and not have a massive bottle neck. Otherwise, I'm probably going to use one of those goofy electric superchargers and enough pipe to pull are from behind the grill and pump it in the direction of the air filter.


Kubricks, they make couplers to prevent hydrolocking. I'll try to find one and post a link. They're just a coupler with a port and valve, when the filter is submerged the suction in the intake spikes and the valve opens to allow air in so the engine can't pull in water. There are also inline air filters which you place further up the intake path which don't really pull much air through until the primary is saturated or submerged.


This is the relocation kit MichaelCoates found: https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-5...SABEgJbEvD_BwE
gah. time to go back in time and sell my daily I wish I saw this last year!
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      08-01-2019, 07:42 PM   #64
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How many people here who are having issues are running the version 1 kit? I don't know of anyone running the version 2 or G1 version who are having the level of issues posted in this thread and I'd like to know who's having what problems with which version. I know another owner of the G1 kit who had some issues but they were mostly unrelated to the supercharger.
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      08-01-2019, 07:45 PM   #65
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gah. time to go back in time and sell my daily I wish I saw this last year!
This kit does make the platform more desirable. In my case it was a matter of selling the car or supercharging it. My wife said she didn't want me selling a car that I've had for less than a year and to "just buy the damned supercharger".
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      08-01-2019, 08:01 PM   #66
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I think I have the version 2. Hardware fits almost perfectly it's the software side that is causing issues;
1. With original ESS tune, the engine power is cut when the brake is applied, meaning I can't rev match downshift.
2. The ESS tune is not making a lot of power to be honest, +35~40whp max. It's not until I have a custom tune on dyno to make some reasonable power.
3. The "charge pipe" thermo expended and pop off about 4 times in 2 years, I have to re-tighten it every now and then still. This isn't a very big issue, but there is still no solution.
Also from my previous research, ESS' MAF tune always have minor issue on idling, even AJ admitted that and request me to use a MAFless tune, which I did. The car idles rock solid.

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This kit does make the platform more desirable. In my case it was a matter of selling the car or supercharging it. My wife said she didn't want me selling a car that I've had for less than a year and to "just buy the damned supercharger".
In my case I wanted to keep my E87 hatchback because of the 4 doors.
E9x is too big for my taste, E82 is 2 doors coupe, so I can't get N54/55 variant on the platform I wanted, and that's that.
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