[SoYank]

Give them a sentence whereby they get out when they have converted a granite rock as big in each dimention as they are tall, the weight of which is recorded at the beginning, into sand that passes completely through a sieve whose size is determined at the time of sentencing. They'd be given an infinite number of 2 pound sledge hammers with which to work a minimum of 14 hours a day with five minutes rest and water each hour. Give them 20 minutes for a meal at the beginning, midway, and end of the 14 hours. Then back to the cell with lights out and silence NLT 10pm so they can reflect on their transgretions against society alone in solitude.

Any disturbances in the ward between 10PM and 6 AM would add an hour to the next day's sledging for everyone as would disturbances occurring at the rocks; three nights with disturbances would result in seventeen hours' sledging and those extra hours would come from the 'quiet time' of 10-6. Give them credit for quiet nights but only back to a 14 hour day. Everyone would be too damned tired at the end of the day to cause any ruckus.

Chronic disturbers would have their rock replaced to its original size at the discretion of the warden with judicial oversight.

[SteveC]

Anyone take the time to read Alistair Darling's 2010 budget?

The debt is overwhelming and that's only what's on the books. In reality its completely and utterly unsustainable, to the point this government must be seriously worried about a knock on the door from the IMF (we're only 0.9% of GDP behind Greece in terms of Government over-spending). If this Governement was a private household, it would have a 110% mortgage, overdraft and credit cards at their max and no pension or savings. The last thing it should be doing is considering a new BMW on tic. That's exactly why business is so worried about Britain's credit rating...the country is already a serious credit risk, with no credible plan to get it back on track.

All this talk about halving the deficit in 4 years... you realise that means continued borrowing at record levels such that by the time the next parlimentary term is done, this country will be paying nearly £80 Billion annually in interest alone. That's more than the country spends on defence and transport combined!

If elected for a 4th term, you can expect New Labour, like a caterpillar, to morph into Hard Labour with distinct Slave Labour tendencies. The State already takes more of Britain's GDP than many former Soviet Bloc States and judging by the 2010 Budget and the state of the economy, that's set to get a lot worse.

Why would anyone vote for a Government whose very clear (but obviously unwritten) policy is to remain in power by creating more dependents? A government which, like a gambler with mounting losses, continues playing to try and recover previous losses.

The reason many people hate Maggie Thatcher is because of the harsh medicine it took to clean up after the last Harold Wilson/James Callaghan debacle. Its happening again folks!

[Carrera RSR]

Monster Raving Looney Party

Can't be any worse/better than the bunch of half wits in the main three options

[creepy coupe]

Originally Posted by Carrera RSR

Monster Raving Looney Party

Can't be any worse/better than the bunch of half wits in the main three options

They're already in Carrera

[SiKkBaSs]

Labour.

[dxb335d]

Sunny Bizzle.

[NathanJT]

The irony with this poll is that even with the results as they stand now (~65% Cons), thanks to the representation system in use, Labour would probably still get in!

Wasn't it something like only 750,000 votes between Labour and the Tories in 2005 (about 3% of the electorate), but that translated into a majority of 65 seats?

I'm Tory, always have been, always will be. I just don't believe in socialism, sorry.

For me, politics absolutely has to be reformed, otherwise we're only ever going to have 30 odd percent of the electorate voting in the governing party. Will it improve? Highly unlikely I know.

[SiKkBaSs]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

Sunny Bizzle.

[dxb335d]

I wonder if anyone votes for that ''Black Nationalist Party'' or whatever they are called.

Are they really racist?

[- Paul -]

Shamelessly stolen from another website :- Devil's advocate and all that....

Tories
ERM and the debacle of Black Wednesday - 15% interest rates,
Monetarism,
Soaring unemployment rates in the 80s,
Major's botched privatisation of British Rail,
Selling Arms to Iraq in the late 80s, before instigating the Gulf War,
The Westland Affair,
Trebling child poverty between 1979-90s,
Mismanagement of the NHS in the late 80s leading the NHS debt the govt of today has to cope with,
Poll tax,
Abolishing the Greater London Council,
Tory Sleaze in the 90s
Cash for Questions..................and before all of this?
Heath's 3 day working week and the energy crisis of the early 70s,
The Suez Crisis under Eden.

Labour

1. Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s
2. Low mortgage rates
3. Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.35
4. Record police numbers in England, Scotland and Wales
5. Cut overall crime by 35 per cent
6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools
7. Best-ever primary school results
8. Funding for every pupil in England to double by 2008
9. Employment is at its highest level ever
10. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries
11. 85,000 more nurses
12. 32,000 more doctors
13. Brought back matrons to hospital wards
14. Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament
15. Devolved power to Welsh Assembly
16. Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time
17. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice
18. Gift aid was worth £625 million to charities last year
19. Restored city-wide government to London
20. Record number of students in higher education
21. Child benefit up 25 per cent since 1997

[peterg1965]

Originally Posted by - Paul -

Shamelessly stolen from another website :- Devil's advocate and all that....

Tories
ERM and the debacle of Black Wednesday - 15% interest rates,
Monetarism,
Soaring unemployment rates in the 80s,
Major's botched privatisation of British Rail,
Selling Arms to Iraq in the late 80s, before instigating the Gulf War,
The Westland Affair,
Trebling child poverty between 1979-90s,
Mismanagement of the NHS in the late 80s leading the NHS debt the govt of today has to cope with,
Poll tax,
Abolishing the Greater London Council,
Tory Sleaze in the 90s
Cash for Questions..................and before all of this?
Heath's 3 day working week and the energy crisis of the early 70s,
The Suez Crisis under Eden.

Labour

1. Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s
2. Low mortgage rates
3. Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.35
4. Record police numbers in England, Scotland and Wales
5. Cut overall crime by 35 per cent
6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools
7. Best-ever primary school results
8. Funding for every pupil in England to double by 2008
9. Employment is at its highest level ever
10. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries
11. 85,000 more nurses
12. 32,000 more doctors
13. Brought back matrons to hospital wards
14. Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament
15. Devolved power to Welsh Assembly
16. Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time
17. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice
18. Gift aid was worth £625 million to charities last year
19. Restored city-wide government to London
20. Record number of students in higher education
21. Child benefit up 25 per cent since 1997

Very selective don't you think? So the Tories acheived nothing in 18 years?
The Suez crisis was 54 years ago FFS!

[toxicnerve]

The last two items might sound good on paper but in reality they are meaningless and frankly are two of the reasons this country is in much need of massive reform.

Originally Posted by - Paul -

20. Record number of students in higher education

That's great and all but frankly I dont think we need more people in higher education. Half of those in higher education do not even deserve to be there if you ask me.

Voactional training and "the trades" are being devalued and many of the students in so called higher education are earning themselves worthless degrees in laughable subjects only to find that when they leave university they have few employment prospects and are saddled with massive amounts of debt.

Does not sound like a win to me!

Originally Posted by - Paul -

21. Child benefit up 25 per cent since 1997

The wonderful welfare system makes it too easy for people to make a lifestyle choice to sit on their arses while living off the taxes of the hard working man/woman. All those who are "unemployed" should be made to do community service in return for their benefits. Lazy sods. The benefits themselves should be paid in the form of non-transferable vouchers for clothing/food/rent etc. No cash, nothing that can be redeemed against booze, smokes etc and no fackin' Sky and flat screen TVs for the fackers either!

Originally Posted by SoYank

Give them a sentence whereby they get out when they have converted a granite rock as big in each dimention as they are tall, the weight of which is recorded at the beginning, into sand that passes completely through a sieve whose size is determined at the time of sentencing. They'd be given an infinite number of 2 pound sledge hammers with which to work a minimum of 14 hours a day with five minutes rest and water each hour. Give them 20 minutes for a meal at the beginning, midway, and end of the 14 hours. Then back to the cell with lights out and silence NLT 10pm so they can reflect on their transgretions against society alone in solitude.

Any disturbances in the ward between 10PM and 6 AM would add an hour to the next day's sledging for everyone as would disturbances occurring at the rocks; three nights with disturbances would result in seventeen hours' sledging and those extra hours would come from the 'quiet time' of 10-6. Give them credit for quiet nights but only back to a 14 hour day. Everyone would be too damned tired at the end of the day to cause any ruckus.

Chronic disturbers would have their rock replaced to its original size at the discretion of the warden with judicial oversight.

Or force them to carry out menial but necessary tasks required to make the world go round.

[Evil Diesel]

It is fairly pointless quoting great Labour spending programmes which have all been carried out by increasing the national debt (also consider the unquoted liabilities of the public sector pension and PFI project etc) - I believe that they have achieved very little given the vast quantities of our (and our children's) cash they have spent.

We are now in a position that the Gilt market will determine future spending not the incumbent government. Looking at the current debt liabilities I would have thought some form of UK Sovereign default inevitable.

The consequences for the unfortunate UK population are horrific. Look at Iceland for an clue.

It is a shame that all the dimwits in the UK are more concerned about Celebrity Dancing on Ice or the X Factor - until it is all too late of course .......

[toxicnerve]

Originally Posted by Evil Diesel

It is a shame that all the dimwits in the UK are more concerned about Celebrity Dancing on Ice or the X Factor - until it is all too late of course .......

This!

The entire country is completely oblivious to what is going on around them.

[Dave_3]

Originally Posted by Evil Diesel

We are now in a position that the Gilt market will determine future spending not the incumbent government. Looking at the current debt liabilities I would have thought some form of UK Sovereign default inevitable.

I remember Labour in the 70s going cap in hand to the IMF as the UK was, to all extents and purposes, totally broken financially. [I also remember the winter of discontent, with rubbish festering in the streets, haulage strikes, power strikes, strikes etc. literally sitting in the dark with candles and powercuts.]

Very close to seeking IMF help again.

As you say, most seem to be distracted by all the smoke and mirrors .... but the UK is close to bankrupt.

I'm old skool Scots - 2 things are inexcusable - dirt and debt.

Also spoken to quite a few teachers recently - and yes the amount of people gaining highers is up. But where our relatively small school maybe put out about 5 people gaining 5 or more GOOD highers in one go, it now puts out over 40. And the Teachers themselves told me they are nowhere near as worthy as in the past. Cheapens the qualification. You only need to look at industry's comments on the actual quality of graduates. And the fact that almost none of them would pass an old 11+ test.

As I commented in another thread it is not actually possible to fail ... it is classified as "deferred success" ! Utter pish.

D.

[themetz]

I'm voting for Jeremy Clarkson.

[pjs]

My thoughts on this today on just a few of the reasons I think the current government have failed include

- 'Not working' -not so much unemployment, but the 'incapacity' numbers have increased by something like a million in the last 10 years (anyone got accurate figures?)

- Immigration - too many illegals, not kept out, and then not kicked out.

- Justice- example in telegraph today, robbers/muggers in london getting fined less than motorists commiting minor offences. Massive inconsistencies in sentencing in general

- Red tape and legislation in general, too much red tape, stifling enterprise

- Stephen Byers

[Steve A]

It doesnt make much difference really what we all say about the past all of the major parties have had highs and lows.

Whoever wins WILL

1. put up taxes across the board, fuel, income, stealth
2. cut spending on important state run facilities, hospital schools and road networks
3. lie lie lie lie lie
4. Change fuck all.

I'm an entrepreneur, i like making money, The Tories will not, and can not, make it easier for me, neither can Labour tbf. My gut tells me Cameron isnt the man. We are in tough situation and only tough measures will pull us through and blueballs has no backbone.

One final thing , i dont think in reality we cant blame Labour for the worldwide financial meltdown caused by the sub prime mortgage lending in the US. Maybe we could have done things different but would the tories really have done anything different to what happened.....i dont think so.


And peteyg im so upset your a tory that i need to go and cry in a corner......

[peterg1965]

Originally Posted by Steve A

And peteyg im so upset your a tory that i need to go and cry in a corner......

Steve, we are what we are I suppose, I am still very happy to share a beer or two with someone who doesn't share my views! I am certainly not from a wealthy background, but the Forces have always been slightly right leaning, don't know why, but I suppose that, and my parents, have shaped my political views. My wife's parents are vehemently Labour supporting but I doubt very much that the values of the modern Labour party are the same as the ones that they voted for in the 50's and 60's, and even 70's.

I think the biggest differences between the two main parties comes down to ideology in terms of attitude towards Europe and the size of (and therefore significance and interference of) the State. I am a strong supporter of a small State (ie. Government) which sets a framework for how we live/work/retire etc by way of laws. Accountability and 'local' decision making in most things (hospitals/policing/transport) is key for me, I do not like being told what to do/think/act on a daily/weekly/monthly basis by the Government, who think they know best - THEY DON'T. As far as Europe is concerned, 'we' need to be hardnosed with the EU. The overwhelming majority of people in this country so not want an EU superstate, the political class, once again, think they know best. The UK signed up for a Common Market, a free trade area, when did we get a vote to say we were happy to have an EU president, or for Brussels to make 84% of our laws with no recourse to Parliament. If Cameron has any balls (not Ed's) he will give a massive two fingers to the EU.

The point about numbers going to University is very well made and is a case in point. We are not all 'equal' and identical, we are all individual, some people are academic and some are practical, fewer are both. The 'target' (another HUGE Labour failing) of sending 50% of the young populace to Uni to get a degree is massively flawed. It devalues the (Bachelors) degree, and makes it alomost worthless. I haven't got a first degree, like hundreds of thousands of other "successful" people, it doesn't mean I am a failure. Even if I had been a plumber/plasterer/electrician/carpenter it doesn't indicate failure.
Harriet and Co think otherwise and are happy to see generations of hugely financially indebted young people who get BAs in Sports Science and Tourism - FFS!

Anyway, rant over.

[prt71]

I strongly believe both main parties could have made life so much easier for themselves, it is blindingly obvious that Brown is unpalatable to many voters, why has there not been an effective leadership challenge?

And David Cameron clearly hasn't the brains he was born with in choosing Osbourne for chancellor, he must realise that he is very young and very posh and this could inspire doubt, so the last thing you want to do is make your number 2 (!) younger and posher. Blair had the right idea installing Prescott as deputy, bit of contrast, rough with the smooth.

[Hotcoupe]

Originally Posted by peterg1965

The point about numbers going to University is very well made and is a case in point. We are not all 'equal' and identical, we are all individual, some people are academic and some are practical, fewer are both. The 'target' (another HUGE Labour failing) of sending 50% of the young populace to Uni to get a degree is massively flawed. It devalues the (Bachelors) degree, and makes it alomost worthless. I haven't got a first degree, like hundreds of thousands of other "successful" people, it doesn't mean I am a failure. Even if I had been a plumber/plasterer/electrician/carpenter it doesn't indicate failure.
Harriet and Co think otherwise and are happy to see generations of hugely financially indebted young people who get BAs in Sports Science and Tourism - FFS!

Anyway, rant over.

Good post (rant) Pete, and you missed a vital and important point about the hugely indebted youngsters with their BA's in Sports Science and Tourism , their other contribution to the Labour Govt was NOT being a number in the unemployment statistics for the 3/4 yrs they were at Uni.

[Boyd1963]

Labour

1. Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s
2. Low mortgage rates
3. Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.35
4. Record police numbers in England, Scotland and Wales
5. Cut overall crime by 35 per cent
6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools
7. Best-ever primary school results
8. Funding for every pupil in England to double by 2008
9. Employment is at its highest level ever
10. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries
11. 85,000 more nurses
12. 32,000 more doctors
13. Brought back matrons to hospital wards
14. Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament
15. Devolved power to Welsh Assembly
16. Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time
17. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice
18. Gift aid was worth £625 million to charities last year
19. Restored city-wide government to London
20. Record number of students in higher education
21. Child benefit up 25 per cent since 1997

Tory voting bankers sold us down the river and now we all have to suffer because we had to bail them out. And then they still have the cheek to award themselves bonuses. FFS! People worry about a few chavs fiddling the system for crumbs when these clowns are robbing us all.

I will be voting LABOUR. The ONLY choice for those of us that didn't go to Eaton, Harrow etc