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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Vargas Turbo making upgraded turbos



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      09-06-2012, 08:03 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90Company View Post
Yup. Good news, finally a practical turbo solution that dousn't have BMW tax.
+1 Roger that!
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      09-06-2012, 09:08 AM   #24
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UM OMG OMG OMG... just read the entire thread on BB..the I'm in the budget. so i guess no more single... apparently these are better
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      09-06-2012, 09:12 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zasquatch View Post
They said they are working on it and it will be up soon.
Okay, thanks for clarifying
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      09-06-2012, 09:26 AM   #26
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damn another player in the n54 turbo "upgrade" game yeah buddy!
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      09-06-2012, 09:27 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilma
http://www.vargasturbo.com/


Have a look around their website......talk about capable

I think this is going to be a reality.

The industrial section is eye opening.

Here is a picture they posted comparing our TD03 to a commercial customers turbo.
Damn! That thing looks like a dumbbell.....lol
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      09-06-2012, 09:36 AM   #28
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As long as this isnt just a revised wheel setup, as we have seen fail in the past. Im in. I want more grunt! 550 torque here I come! Yeah I said torque.
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      09-06-2012, 10:19 AM   #29
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this is awesome, their price point seems to be right in the sweet spot. This makes 500/600whp for under 5k very possible! very excited to see what comes of this.
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      09-06-2012, 10:56 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRetep View Post
this is awesome, their price point seems to be right in the sweet spot. This makes 500/600whp for under 5k very possible! very excited to see what comes of this.
It's bhp not whp.
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      09-06-2012, 11:12 AM   #31
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It's bhp not whp.
Just re-read. You sir are correct. Still very impressive numbers for the price point. IF it all goes through and they do hit their claimed #'s.
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      09-06-2012, 11:23 AM   #32
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Well, the stage 1 475-500 BHP is a bit less than what the stockers can do, so I don't consider the price of 1500 for a slight power decrease too impressive for the price point.
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      09-06-2012, 11:29 AM   #33
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The stage2 upgrade if done correctly, will be similar to RB turbos and be a huge undercut to what RB charges.

However, the stage1 upgrade will net 20 whp (at best) because they are taking the stock turbine, clipping it, and adding a TD04 wheel for more flow. I just can't see anyone spending 1200-1500, plus the installation costs for 20 whp.

Their stage 3 upgrade however, is definitely an interesting proposition.
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      09-06-2012, 11:40 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themyst View Post
The stage2 upgrade if done correctly, will be similar to RB turbos and be a huge undercut to what RB charges.

However, the stage1 upgrade will net 20 whp (at best) because they are taking the stock turbine, clipping it, and adding a TD04 wheel for more flow. I just can't see anyone spending 1200-1500, plus the installation costs for 20 whp.

Their stage 3 upgrade however, is definitely an interesting proposition.
Yes, stage1 is worthless. TD and ASR charge a lot more than RB for "stg2" so I have a hard time believing someone could undercut Rob's reasonable price that much without cutting corners. We'll should see in two weeks according to the schedule, which I don't believe in either

Upgraded everything (stg 3) is what he should do and not waste time in making the same mistakes people have been making since 2009 beginning from the GT Pro turbo upgrades...
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      09-06-2012, 12:08 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jippii ensio View Post
Yes, stage1 is worthless. TD and ASR charge a lot more than RB for "stg2" so I have a hard time believing someone could undercut Rob's reasonable price that much without cutting corners. We'll should see in two weeks according to the schedule, which I don't believe in either

Upgraded everything (stg 3) is what he should do and not waste time in making the same mistakes people have been making since 2009 beginning from the GT Pro turbo upgrades...
Keep in mind that $1,999 is the intro price. That price will go up once the promo ends. I can easily see a large scale manufacturer being able to build the same product for cheaper than someone working out of a small shop.
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      09-06-2012, 12:26 PM   #36
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So what would the total cost be with core charge?
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      09-06-2012, 12:31 PM   #37
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If he can get this done for what he is saying and have some real promising numbers to back it up this guy will corner the market!!! There are no other prices even comparable! GOOD JOB, Hope this wet dream becomes a reality
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      09-06-2012, 12:57 PM   #38
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When I first began development on this project in late 2008 I too had a vision of bringing a “Stage 2” (what I’d truly consider Stage 1) product to the masses for right at this “intro” pricing. As development continued, however, and I actually got to the point of producing a product and realizing what is truly required and at what costs- it would’ve have been business suicide to not pass along the actual costs of a product to appease the masses. Not to mention one that could be stood behind as well over the test of time. This project is one that most anyone who has actually COMPLETED it, knows is very difficult, timely, and costly to produce. To do it correctly, there are exponential amounts of machining and fabrication steps; unlike your typical few on other platforms. Corners can be cut and it surely could be made a little cheaper, but the savings to take these paths are not worthwhile when considering the product that would be released in exchange for the savings. I do realize that as a consumer, however, the mighty dollar on paper is what really matters (at least initially).

Personally I believe it all is very preliminary and that there are many unknown hurdles still out there that must be crossed. Anyone who had followed me from the beginning could likely attest to similar expectations, that grew and grew as more was learned. And this was not my first rodeo either, I had over 5 years working with these exact breeds of turbos used in the performance world prior, developing some cool innovations for other platforms that were very successful and affordable. There have been several other very big companies who have took on this N54 "Stage 2" project only to end up with a much higher cost, more difficult install, and some of which with very poor quality.

As for the Large to Small business comparison, Small businesses typically have a very large advantage due to low overhead. Some small businesses also still have strong connections as well when it comes to suppliers, outsourcing, etc. There are some great advantages had though in being the late arriver and by directly copying a product or by mimicking business practices/data collection/concepts/development from a path already cleared from years of hard work by another; but I digress as that is just the way it works. But that in itself is not enough though to sell a product at a loss.

Time will tell, best of luck to them, but I wouldn’t be so sure that what you are being told at this point is anything near reality when it is said and done. At that point I would be very surprised to see a product sold less than RB pricing, that is if in fact is a similar product from all aspects.
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      09-06-2012, 01:10 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRetep
Quote:
Originally Posted by themyst View Post
It's bhp not whp.
Just re-read. You sir are correct. Still very impressive numbers for the price point. IF it all goes through and they do hit their claimed #'s.[/quote]


Not really.....calculate that into whp and tell me what you come up with. After comparing to all the other twin upgrades available.

Might as well stick with meth or E85 if you're going for their stg1 setup. Cost less for parts and labor.....just saying.
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      09-06-2012, 01:14 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobBeck View Post
When I first began development on this project in late 2008 I too had a vision of bringing a “Stage 2” (what I’d truly consider Stage 1) product to the masses for right at this “intro” pricing. As development continued, however, and I actually got to the point of producing a product and realizing what is truly required and at what costs- it would’ve have been business suicide to not pass along the actual costs of a product to appease the masses. Not to mention one that could be stood behind as well over the test of time. This project is one that most anyone who has actually COMPLETED it, knows is very difficult, timely, and costly to produce. To do it correctly, there are exponential amounts of machining and fabrication steps; unlike your typical few on other platforms. Corners can be cut and it surely could be made a little cheaper, but the savings to take these paths are not worthwhile when considering the product that would be released in exchange for the savings. I do realize that as a consumer, however, the mighty dollar on paper is what really matters (at least initially).

Personally I believe it all is very preliminary and that there are many unknown hurdles still out there that must be crossed. Anyone who had followed me from the beginning could likely attest to similar expectations, that grew and grew as more was learned. And this was not my first rodeo either, I had over 5 years working with these exact breeds of turbos used in the performance world prior, developing some cool innovations for other platforms that were very successful and affordable. There have been several other very big companies who have took on this N54 "Stage 2" project only to end up with a much higher cost, more difficult install, and some of which with very poor quality.

As for the Large to Small business comparison, Small businesses typically have a very large advantage due to low overhead. Some small businesses also still have strong connections as well when it comes to suppliers, outsourcing, etc. There are some great advantages had though in being the late arriver and by directly copying a product or by mimicking business practices/data collection/concepts/development from a path already cleared from years of hard work by another; but I digress as that is just the way it works. But that in itself is not enough though to sell a product at a loss.

Time will tell, best of luck to them, but I wouldn’t be so sure that what you are being told at this point is anything near reality when it is said and done. At that point I would be very surprised to see a product sold less than RB pricing, that is if in fact is a similar product from all aspects.
Well said.
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      09-06-2012, 01:16 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobBeck View Post
When I first began development on this project in late 2008 I too had a vision of bringing a “Stage 2” (what I’d truly consider Stage 1) product to the masses for right at this “intro” pricing. As development continued, however, and I actually got to the point of producing a product and realizing what is truly required and at what costs- it would’ve have been business suicide to not pass along the actual costs of a product to appease the masses. Not to mention one that could be stood behind as well over the test of time. This project is one that most anyone who has actually COMPLETED it, knows is very difficult, timely, and costly to produce. To do it correctly, there are exponential amounts of machining and fabrication steps; unlike your typical few on other platforms. Corners can be cut and it surely could be made a little cheaper, but the savings to take these paths are not worthwhile when considering the product that would be released in exchange for the savings. I do realize that as a consumer, however, the mighty dollar on paper is what really matters (at least initially).

Personally I believe it all is very preliminary and that there are many unknown hurdles still out there that must be crossed. Anyone who had followed me from the beginning could likely attest to similar expectations, that grew and grew as more was learned. And this was not my first rodeo either, I had over 5 years working with these exact breeds of turbos used in the performance world prior, developing some cool innovations for other platforms that were very successful and affordable. There have been several other very big companies who have took on this N54 "Stage 2" project only to end up with a much higher cost, more difficult install, and some of which with very poor quality.

As for the Large to Small business comparison, Small businesses typically have a very large advantage due to low overhead. Some small businesses also still have strong connections as well when it comes to suppliers, outsourcing, etc. There are some great advantages had though in being the late arriver and by directly copying a product or by mimicking business practices/data collection/concepts/development from a path already cleared from years of hard work by another; but I digress as that is just the way it works. But that in itself is not enough though to sell a product at a loss.

Time will tell, best of luck to them, but I wouldn’t be so sure that what you are being told at this point is anything near reality when it is said and done. At that point I would be very surprised to see a product sold less than RB pricing, that is if in fact is a similar product from all aspects.
I suppose if they do not build the wastegates, they will simply machine out the compressor and turbine side (stage 2) and they will have issues making a ton of boost up top without an insane amount of WGDC.

But until we get some results, it's not worth wasting time over. I've been down this guinea pig turbo road before, so I know it's not really worth it. Even if you DIY, it's going to cost you $200-250 in parts.
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      09-06-2012, 01:29 PM   #42
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this all sounds to good to be true. I guess we will have to wait for real world testing and dyno sheets.. at this point i think i would pay a bit more for a tested PROVEN product (RB or Vishnu Single) but we will see. Best of luck to them though!
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      09-06-2012, 01:46 PM   #43
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Looks good!

I hope they have a wastegate fix in mind
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      09-06-2012, 02:05 PM   #44
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Maybe he can add these as an option on the build?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-135-335-...item1e6fbea685
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