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      09-16-2018, 03:19 PM   #1
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07 335i- cross roads

I have been getting into track days over the past couple years and I have push my 335i to the limits of its tires, brakes and suspensions which brings my to my dilemma. Do I send the money upgrading the car? or do i just go ahead and get a whole new car?

2007 335i stock aside from a FMIC and DCI with only 68k on it.

The biggest issue i have found is the suspension on turns, i have a lot of body roll and constantly fighting over steer issues, even with pilot sports.
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      09-16-2018, 10:05 PM   #2
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How do you feel about an older E30 series car for track days...folks really love them for this.

JP
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      09-16-2018, 10:13 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slides View Post
I have been getting into track days over the past couple years and I have push my 335i to the limits of its tires, brakes and suspensions which brings my to my dilemma. Do I send the money upgrading the car? or do i just go ahead and get a whole new car?

2007 335i stock aside from a FMIC and DCI with only 68k on it.

The biggest issue i have found is the suspension on turns, i have a lot of body roll and constantly fighting over steer issues, even with pilot sports.
I would import a Euro E36 M3 for a track day. They are legal next year.
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      09-17-2018, 09:34 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Nickco43 View Post
I would import a Euro E36 M3 for a track day. They are legal next year.
Yes sure they are by next year...
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      09-17-2018, 11:11 AM   #5
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maybe try m3 control arms, upgraded swasy and experiment with different spring rates. This is assuming you mean a full track not autox...if autox, i say miata.
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      09-17-2018, 02:16 PM   #6
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Yes I track it, auto X is too boring for me and around here the SCCA scams yous on what you get, typically 4 runs and having to man the course when your not running.

I mainly do HPDE and will probably stick to those for some time as I build more skill, if i where to switch cars i would want one i can DD and track on the occasionally weekend. Typically doing 4-6 tracks days a year now.

Would the upgrade to m3 control arms be that noticeable? also thinking of sway bar upgrades.
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      09-17-2018, 06:00 PM   #7
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Depends on your goals and ultimately your cash flow. Can you afford to have a second car that you can really beat on? If so do that, really deck it out with suspension stuff and enjoy the 335 as a daily
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      09-18-2018, 10:29 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by slides View Post
Yes I track it, auto X is too boring for me and around here the SCCA scams yous on what you get, typically 4 runs and having to man the course when your not running.

I mainly do HPDE and will probably stick to those for some time as I build more skill, if i where to switch cars i would want one i can DD and track on the occasionally weekend. Typically doing 4-6 tracks days a year now.

Would the upgrade to m3 control arms be that noticeable? also thinking of sway bar upgrades.
different spring rates and shocks will make the most noticable difference.

i would go the suspension sub forum and do some research and figure out what suspension frequency for the front and back will meet your needs.
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      09-18-2018, 11:30 AM   #9
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Personally I would suggest getting a second car for track duty if it's something you really want to get into. Look at used race/track cars and don't worry about HP. Keep in mind tire/brake size and look for cheaper to run cars.

I recently spent some track time in a fully prepped lemons 24hr e36 race car. Now looking at doing some racing on a local team. Not even similar experiences. Race weight with driver and gas is around 2400-2500lbs.

My take away from doing HPDE track days:

First couple times it is easy to get hooked and want to do it all the time. After a couple track days the high running costs become apparent and the experience becomes more about track driving rather than driving X car at Y speed. You also start to see that track/race prepped cars will absolutely smoke most street cars with 2-3x the HP- except on straights.

For car/equipment:

-get something lightweight, RWD, N/A, and manual. (Used Caymen, Boxster (if club allows), Miata, RX8, E46/E36/E30 325i, etc.)
-assume it will get beat up and there is always the chance it could get totaled.
-upgrade tires and brake pads.
-enjoy the car for what it is.
-don't bother spending all the time, $ and aggravation to set up a daily driver to run a few seconds/lap faster for maybe 5 hours of non timed track time per year.
-trailer/vehicle to bring it to the track. Also helps in case you break something and live a few hours away.

Have fun and remember it's dangerous and random shit happens. Last track day I saw a newer corvette get towed off on a flatbed. The right rear wheel (wheel, not tire) must have been fatigued from a random impact and exploded on the straight. Car spun at 80+mph but luckily didn't hit anything. I didn't know the driver personally but he was running in the advanced run group. Very lucky dude.

PS: after running in a race car with full roll cage, no air bags, full harness, hans device, bucket seat, and fire suppression system- will make you feel very vulnerable in a street car with no roll cage and air bags.

Hope this helps.
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      09-20-2018, 08:46 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carguy138 View Post
Personally I would suggest getting a second car for track duty if it's something you really want to get into. Look at used race/track cars and don't worry about HP. Keep in mind tire/brake size and look for cheaper to run cars.

I recently spent some track time in a fully prepped lemons 24hr e36 race car. Now looking at doing some racing on a local team. Not even similar experiences. Race weight with driver and gas is around 2400-2500lbs.

My take away from doing HPDE track days:

First couple times it is easy to get hooked and want to do it all the time. After a couple track days the high running costs become apparent and the experience becomes more about track driving rather than driving X car at Y speed. You also start to see that track/race prepped cars will absolutely smoke most street cars with 2-3x the HP- except on straights.

For car/equipment:

-get something lightweight, RWD, N/A, and manual. (Used Caymen, Boxster (if club allows), Miata, RX8, E46/E36/E30 325i, etc.)
-assume it will get beat up and there is always the chance it could get totaled.
-upgrade tires and brake pads.
-enjoy the car for what it is.
-don't bother spending all the time, $ and aggravation to set up a daily driver to run a few seconds/lap faster for maybe 5 hours of non timed track time per year.
-trailer/vehicle to bring it to the track. Also helps in case you break something and live a few hours away.

Have fun and remember it's dangerous and random shit happens. Last track day I saw a newer corvette get towed off on a flatbed. The right rear wheel (wheel, not tire) must have been fatigued from a random impact and exploded on the straight. Car spun at 80+mph but luckily didn't hit anything. I didn't know the driver personally but he was running in the advanced run group. Very lucky dude.

PS: after running in a race car with full roll cage, no air bags, full harness, hans device, bucket seat, and fire suppression system- will make you feel very vulnerable in a street car with no roll cage and air bags.

Hope this helps.
This does help, its funny that you bring up how HP doesn't really matter. My buddy has a stripped 330ci and sets the same lap times as me at several tracks, while he is 70hp less but 500+lbs lighter.
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      09-20-2018, 06:21 PM   #11
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An old friend of mine had a E46 M3 and after some track sessions he got hooked but wanted something different and dedicated for track usage so he sold that and picked up a Lotus Elise... which was great until this happened:

https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f25...arnage-394226/
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      10-15-2018, 03:14 PM   #12
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The debate between keeping my 335 and doing a few upgrades or just selling it has been on my mind almost every day for the past couple months. I have look/test drove multiple cars and I always come back to BMWs. Last weekend I drove my buddies E46 M3 SMG and my car back to back. We put on over 100 miles on some country roads and a few pulls 40-130, and I would say both of our cars proved to be almost equal in a drag race. The M3 would edge past me until we hit about 120, then I would start to recover ground. I walked away knowing that in the spring time I知 trading for an E46 M3.

One of the largest factors for getting an older M3 is their cost, you can get one in decent shape for around 15g and even excellent shape at 20g. If I went E90 M3, 20g would get me one with around 100-130k miles. The price difference there is enough to buy all new suspension, brakes tires and more if need be on an E46 with equally high mileage. Ideally, I知 looking around the 10g price range so if it does get damage at the track I wont be heat broken, vs if I owned CSL M3. Plus, FCP euro sells race pads for the E46 m3 but NOT the E90 m3.

But the biggest difference was the handling, I read multiple forums with people saying that E90 335i has better suspension then the older m3 and that is false, at least from what I experienced. My buddies M3 is 100% stock and it handled much better then my lumbering boat 335I, it hugged the corners with minimal body roll where as my 335i felt like it was on 3 wheels. (I do have sport suspension on my 335I)

Will I miss the low end tq of the 335i, yes, maybe, but the rasp on the M3 will make it worth it.
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      10-15-2018, 04:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slides View Post
The debate between keeping my 335 and doing a few upgrades or just selling it has been on my mind almost every day for the past couple months. I have look/test drove multiple cars and I always come back to BMWs. Last weekend I drove my buddies E46 M3 SMG and my car back to back. We put on over 100 miles on some country roads and a few pulls 40-130, and I would say both of our cars proved to be almost equal in a drag race. The M3 would edge past me until we hit about 120, then I would start to recover ground. I walked away knowing that in the spring time I知 trading for an E46 M3.

One of the largest factors for getting an older M3 is their cost, you can get one in decent shape for around 15g and even excellent shape at 20g. If I went E90 M3, 20g would get me one with around 100-130k miles. The price difference there is enough to buy all new suspension, brakes tires and more if need be on an E46 with equally high mileage. Ideally, I知 looking around the 10g price range so if it does get damage at the track I wont be heat broken, vs if I owned CSL M3. Plus, FCP euro sells race pads for the E46 m3 but NOT the E90 m3.

But the biggest difference was the handling, I read multiple forums with people saying that E90 335i has better suspension then the older m3 and that is false, at least from what I experienced. My buddies M3 is 100% stock and it handled much better then my lumbering boat 335I, it hugged the corners with minimal body roll where as my 335i felt like it was on 3 wheels. (I do have sport suspension on my 335I)

Will I miss the low end tq of the 335i, yes, maybe, but the rasp on the M3 will make it worth it.

there probably referring to the glass subframe of the e46 m3. just make sure you get a ppi. if you can find a good condition e46 m3..then go for it. The good ones are already going up in value.
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      10-15-2018, 05:28 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slides View Post
The debate between keeping my 335 and doing a few upgrades or just selling it has been on my mind almost every day for the past couple months. I have look/test drove multiple cars and I always come back to BMWs. Last weekend I drove my buddies E46 M3 SMG and my car back to back. We put on over 100 miles on some country roads and a few pulls 40-130, and I would say both of our cars proved to be almost equal in a drag race. The M3 would edge past me until we hit about 120, then I would start to recover ground. I walked away knowing that in the spring time I知 trading for an E46 M3.

One of the largest factors for getting an older M3 is their cost, you can get one in decent shape for around 15g and even excellent shape at 20g. If I went E90 M3, 20g would get me one with around 100-130k miles. The price difference there is enough to buy all new suspension, brakes tires and more if need be on an E46 with equally high mileage. Ideally, I知 looking around the 10g price range so if it does get damage at the track I wont be heat broken, vs if I owned CSL M3. Plus, FCP euro sells race pads for the E46 m3 but NOT the E90 m3.

But the biggest difference was the handling, I read multiple forums with people saying that E90 335i has better suspension then the older m3 and that is false, at least from what I experienced. My buddies M3 is 100% stock and it handled much better then my lumbering boat 335I, it hugged the corners with minimal body roll where as my 335i felt like it was on 3 wheels. (I do have sport suspension on my 335I)

Will I miss the low end tq of the 335i, yes, maybe, but the rasp on the M3 will make it worth it.
I would say get 2003.5 6-speed E46 M3 for track toy. Try to stay away from SMG.
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      10-15-2018, 05:42 PM   #15
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I always hear people and auto-journalists hemming and hawwing over how certain cars are great on the track and daily drive able... How many times have you hear, "durr you can drive to track, den race on track, den you drive home. same car huahuahua", like it's the revelation of the 21st century.

The fact of matter is, yes, you can do that with your "x". However, the costs will add up. Maintenance, repairs, performance upgrades. I subscribe to the classic multiple car system. Where you have your (((reliable))) daily driver, with comfort and not as much overhead while still being fun. Then you can have your track car(s), which can be strewn about on your garage floor for weeks at a time as you rebuild whatever part of it as well as being able to put a very stiff suspension, race (read:loud) exhaust, and a myriad of other components that would make you miserable on a commute, but Takumi in a race.

Sure it's fine if you are able to drive to the track with your track car and race it, but that's not the wisest of decisions. Track cars tend to be abused and not work 100% of the time because of all the work and modifications. Also with tracking your daily, It would be fun a couple of times, but what if you wreck it? Something goes wrong? Well, there goes your transportation - and good luck having insurance pay out when they find out you hopped a kerb @ 90mph into a wall of tires...

I'm in the camp of - enjoy a lightly modded commuter, then buy something affordable like an E30/E36/E46 to rip apart and make a track machine, that you can also take out on weekends and not worry about wrecking it.
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      10-16-2018, 12:17 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Fritzer View Post
I always hear people and auto-journalists hemming and hawwing over how certain cars are great on the track and daily drive able... How many times have you hear, "durr you can drive to track, den race on track, den you drive home. same car huahuahua", like it's the revelation of the 21st century.

The fact of matter is, yes, you can do that with your "x". However, the costs will add up. Maintenance, repairs, performance upgrades. I subscribe to the classic multiple car system. Where you have your (((reliable))) daily driver, with comfort and not as much overhead while still being fun. Then you can have your track car(s), which can be strewn about on your garage floor for weeks at a time as you rebuild whatever part of it as well as being able to put a very stiff suspension, race (read:loud) exhaust, and a myriad of other components that would make you miserable on a commute, but Takumi in a race.

Sure it's fine if you are able to drive to the track with your track car and race it, but that's not the wisest of decisions. Track cars tend to be abused and not work 100% of the time because of all the work and modifications. Also with tracking your daily, It would be fun a couple of times, but what if you wreck it? Something goes wrong? Well, there goes your transportation - and good luck having insurance pay out when they find out you hopped a kerb @ 90mph into a wall of tires...

I'm in the camp of - enjoy a lightly modded commuter, then buy something affordable like an E30/E36/E46 to rip apart and make a track machine, that you can also take out on weekends and not worry about wrecking it.
I have driven my 335i 7hrs each way to the track before and its not fun, especially since the water pump was on its last leg on the 7hr drive home. But, even when I知 at the track I think of the what if痴, what if my tires shred, motor blows etc. How would I get it home? That痴 why I知 thinking dedicated track car within a few years and a truck/trailer combo.

I will be on the search in the spring time for an 03.5+ 6 speed, while the SMG is great for traffic, I couldn稚 live with having an automatic M3.
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      10-16-2018, 03:37 PM   #17
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if you can get the smg cheap enough it might be worth it. People have said, swapping to smg to manual is relatively a easy exp for BMW standards. There are a few you tube videos on it.
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