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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Tracking, Autocrossing, Dragstrip, Driving Techniques > I went with 265/40R17 all Around



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      05-10-2010, 07:13 PM   #1
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I went with 265/40R17 all Around

Even though people say that the 265/40R17 is too big of a tire for an 8.5" wheel, I wanted to try it anyway. Especially when I find that some sites say that it will fit.
I know that they may look bulgy to some but I think they look pretty good.

I think I decreased the understeer.

One of the reasons why this setup works is because I have the M3 tesnion links and wishbone links installed in the front. This pushed my wheels out to the fender which gave me more clearance on the strut side.
EDIT
Never mind, I guess it doesn't make a difference so this setup will work even with a stock setup.


Here are some pics





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      05-11-2010, 01:20 AM   #2
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mmm...more rubber is good. I would love to have 265s but I just don't see 265x18s working.
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      05-11-2010, 06:20 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
One of the reasons why this setup works is because I have the M3 tesnion links and wishbone links installed in the front. This pushed my wheels out to the fender which gave me more clearance on the strut side.
Isn't the strut pushed out together with the wheel when you install the M3 wishbone and tenion link? What I knoe the distance from the wheel to the strut doesnot change.
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      05-11-2010, 10:42 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbass524 View Post
mmm...more rubber is good. I would love to have 265s but I just don't see 265x18s working.
Interestingly enough, more rubber != good. I was talking to someone running a successful team in SCCA national autocross and also works on a Speed World Challenge team about tires, and what they shared about tire sizes and width will surprise you.

What they told me was, on an autocross course, they were able to drop about a second a lap when they went with a THINNER tire. Originally they were running a 235mm width tire on their 7" wide rim for their Miata. When they switch to a 205mm width tire on the same rim their results improved. And this is a car driven by a national champion with hundreds of hours on autocross courses and their test data does not lie.

Of course, if and when customers ask, they will always recommend the wider tire because it's now a well "accepted" myth that wider tires always work better, and if they recommend a skinny tire it will only raise more questions, and they make a bigger margin on wider tires ANYWAY.

Just some food for thought.
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      05-11-2010, 10:45 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcel b View Post
Isn't the strut pushed out together with the wheel when you install the M3 wishbone and tenion link? What I knoe the distance from the wheel to the strut doesnot change.
This. I don't think the E9Xes are on double wish-bone or double a-arm set-up where that could potentially work. I think changing the lower control arm and tension rods only move the BOTTOM of the wheel out, not the top (hence the increased camber).
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      05-11-2010, 10:48 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
This. I don't think the E9Xes are on double wish-bone or double a-arm set-up where that could potentially work. I think changing the lower control arm and tension rods only move the BOTTOM of the wheel out, not the top (hence the increased camber).
sure, it only moves the bottom out, but also the bottom of the strut. so the distance to the strut remains the same... or
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      05-11-2010, 08:08 PM   #7
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These are not 18s, the op mentioned 17s. Actually they look like Kosei K1 painted black
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      05-11-2010, 08:18 PM   #8
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I LOVE the bumper...and the fitment looks real good. where did you grab that?
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      05-11-2010, 10:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Interestingly enough, more rubber != good. I was talking to someone running a successful team in SCCA national autocross and also works on a Speed World Challenge team about tires, and what they shared about tire sizes and width will surprise you.

What they told me was, on an autocross course, they were able to drop about a second a lap when they went with a THINNER tire. Originally they were running a 235mm width tire on their 7" wide rim for their Miata. When they switch to a 205mm width tire on the same rim their results improved. And this is a car driven by a national champion with hundreds of hours on autocross courses and their test data does not lie.

Of course, if and when customers ask, they will always recommend the wider tire because it's now a well "accepted" myth that wider tires always work better, and if they recommend a skinny tire it will only raise more questions, and they make a bigger margin on wider tires ANYWAY.

Just some food for thought.
I understand what you are saying but what you are saying may be a completely different scenario.
The main thing about using the wider tires for myself is creating less understeer for myself by putting the wider tires up front.
Going with a square setup is going to provide less understeer. On top of that, going with a wider tire up front will create even less understeer with this car.

I have a feeling that they dropped the second because either they didn't "need" the bigger tire and they were saving weight by using a smaller tire or they changed out the rears to a smaller tire, or... there could be so many possibilities why this happened.
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      05-12-2010, 01:20 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
This. I don't think the E9Xes are on double wish-bone or double a-arm set-up where that could potentially work. I think changing the lower control arm and tension rods only move the BOTTOM of the wheel out, not the top (hence the increased camber).
The distance of the wheel to strut does not change with the use of the M3 lower wishbones.
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      05-12-2010, 12:12 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autowerks View Post
The distance of the wheel to strut does not change with the use of the M3 lower wishbones.
This is good to know.
I thought it did.
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      05-14-2010, 06:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
The main thing about using the wider tires for myself is creating less understeer for myself by putting the wider tires up front.
Going with a square setup is going to provide less understeer.


I switched to non-stagger on my S2000 for the same reasons.
And the Autocross is a totally different scenario, the little Miata probably just got less rolling resistance from smaller tyres too.
Or maybe it was easier to piroutte around the cones.

A lot of experts will tell you it doesnt work, but on a track or AutoX it will help the turn in significantly.
its not a mod for the noobs though, you switch the grip bias a lot further forward = more oversteer in general.
Most important to add is you WILL get more front roll especially with better R compounds.
More grip = more cornering G = more lean angle.
A good uprated ARB (Torsion Bar??) will keep things in check and switch the bias back towards understeer a little.

HTH
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      05-15-2010, 12:59 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m1bjr View Post
And the Autocross is a totally different scenario, the little Miata probably just got less rolling resistance from smaller tyres too.
Or maybe it was easier to piroutte around the cones.
Surprisingly the same result and conclusion was reached by the team testing tires for their Speed World Challenge car as well as by research conducted by Grassroot Motorsports, both on the track AND in autocross. That conclusion, wider is better ONLY up to a certain point, was verified by multiple sources.

There are multiple factors involved, of course. The GRM test was done on a Miata too, so a lighter car may be more susceptible to the phenomena. And the Speed World Challenge car that they tested the tires on was, well, a race car gutted and half a ton lighter than the E90.

Just offering some anecdotal evidence that going wider won't always cure your ills. Don't be surprised to see results that are not in-line with your expectations, or actually not being able to achieve the same speed/time on the track with wider tires. It'll probably help, but it's no guarantee.
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      05-22-2010, 02:49 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
I understand what you are saying but what you are saying may be a completely different scenario.
The main thing about using the wider tires for myself is creating less understeer for myself by putting the wider tires up front.
Going with a square setup is going to provide less understeer. On top of that, going with a wider tire up front will create even less understeer with this car.

I have a feeling that they dropped the second because either they didn't "need" the bigger tire and they were saving weight by using a smaller tire or they changed out the rears to a smaller tire, or... there could be so many possibilities why this happened.
Mr 5, have you had a chance to try out the 265s on the track? Better turn in? Better mid corner grip on acceleration or better hold mid corner? Those K1s?
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      05-23-2010, 09:28 PM   #15
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Switched to 255's

I switched to 255's on all four corners for purposes of auto-crossing. You can check with the people at the auto-cross events and see their tire widths generally are on the wider side, not the opposite.

I believe comparing an e9x to a miata for purposes of tire analysis is a stretch. I would bet a miata, with its reduced weight, torque, wishbone suspension and lower stance, in contrast to a 335i, probably does not need as much tire width up front. It is probably the case that increasing the width did not add any additional benefit and reducing the width to its minimum necessary to provide for precision turning was sufficient. I wonder if there are any written reports out there analyzing tire width factors? Would be interesting to read more about.

Here is an example of a racing outfit that found larger width of tires in the front reduced understeer and improved track performance in a 135. http://www.evolutionracewerks.com/?q=node/55

Last edited by DrewKo; 05-23-2010 at 10:35 PM..
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      05-23-2010, 09:36 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgalaxy View Post
Mr 5, have you had a chance to try out the 265s on the track? Better turn in? Better mid corner grip on acceleration or better hold mid corner? Those K1s?
After making the switch, I have noticed much better rear-tire grip (less skidding under hard acceleration), better turn-in grip but less than I had hoped for, better/quicker recovery after losing grip, and easier recovery, meaning i could better feel where the limits of cornering on the tires were reached. I definitely would not go back to 225s or 235s up front. There is no doubt in my mind that the 255s were an improvement generally for control purposes.
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      06-25-2010, 11:04 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgalaxy View Post
Mr 5, have you had a chance to try out the 265s on the track? Better turn in? Better mid corner grip on acceleration or better hold mid corner? Those K1s?
I was running 255s all around before and was pleased but I'm going back to Laguna Seca in July with my 265 setup so it's going to be interesting to see if there's an improvement.
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      06-25-2010, 03:16 PM   #18
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Bigger isn't always better.

For competition, the important thing is having the tire in its designed operating temperature (typically at least 160, optimium around 200 degrees). naturally you want the alignment and pressure to give you even temperatures across the tread width. You can see why this might be a problem on a miata autocrossing with wide tires - they never get into the tires optimum temperature range. Anything over 195 in a miata is iffy if you are trying to get the tires to heat up quickly.

Keep in mind that a bigger tires doesn't mean a bigger contact patch - it just changes the shape of the patch.

I rotated my 225/255 setup to put the 225's up front (just for kicks). I can't say it really handled any better - I had less turn in grip at lower speeds (autocross like).
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      06-25-2010, 09:02 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaz58 View Post
Bigger isn't always better.

For competition, the important thing is having the tire in its designed operating temperature (typically at least 160, optimium around 200 degrees). naturally you want the alignment and pressure to give you even temperatures across the tread width. You can see why this might be a problem on a miata autocrossing with wide tires - they never get into the tires optimum temperature range. Anything over 195 in a miata is iffy if you are trying to get the tires to heat up quickly.

Keep in mind that a bigger tires doesn't mean a bigger contact patch - it just changes the shape of the patch.

I rotated my 225/255 setup to put the 225's up front (just for kicks). I can't say it really handled any better - I had less turn in grip at lower speeds (autocross like).
I'm not sure how the topic got switched to Miatas. Irrelevant to the discussion of going 265 all around on a 335.

Are you saying that you run normally 255 up front and 225 rear and for kicks you switched it around to 225 up front and 255 rear?
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      04-02-2022, 11:12 AM   #20
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Kosei K1 Gun Metal

So you must have has these K1s repainted. I would love a gun metal color set.
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