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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > +1mm Modified Intake Lift Valvetronic Supports- 'MILVs' N52



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      12-01-2016, 01:07 AM   #23
hassmaschine
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Hard to know. So far the only regrinds (yours) made less power.
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      12-01-2016, 01:24 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
Hard to know. So far the only regrinds (yours) made less power.
Yeah, due to that extra advance. Gonna try again.
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      12-01-2016, 03:27 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraMarty View Post
On other engines where I have added increased ratio roller rockers, the power was up across the whole powerband not just top end.
Any dynos I can look at?
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      12-01-2016, 03:34 AM   #26
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http://www.hotrod.com/articles/rolle...er-ratio-test/

Pretty neat, and I imagine the N52 flows better at lower RPM, and similar at high RPM, a good bump in lift could do wonders.
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      12-01-2016, 11:28 AM   #27
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I wonder - does it effectively increase the duration? I mean, think about it - the valve will open a little sooner as it ramps up due to the increased rocker ratio (mainly at high eccentric shaft angles), and it will close later too. Physically, the valve is open sooner and closes later, plus it has more lift at peak.

And when BPC posted those videos of the eccentric shaft/rockers, I agree - it really doesn't appear that a cam is going to work. Mainly because it looks like the secondary rocker is already at the end of it's travel. But that's a question. Could you increase duration and keep the same cam lift with a regrind, and use a modified rocker ratio to increase lift?
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      12-01-2016, 12:27 PM   #28
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On other engines, a higher ration rocker arm will increase duration 1-3*. It doesn't change the actual cam duration/ramp, but it increases the lift by about 5% and duration is usually measured at 0.050" valve lift and with the increased rocker ratio, this 0.050" will occur sooner on the cam ramp and therefor increase the duration of the cam.

It could be mapped out and checked and verified but I would have to put my crank degree wheel on the crank and rotate the crank and see what degree opens the valve to 0.050" both stock and with the higher ratio rocker. But I don't need to do this because I know the science and the math and that it will add 1-3* duration. Take my word on it. And on this 328 Valvetronic, the added duration will only be at 80+% throttle/Ecc Cam position.

So now we have variable lift cam and variable duration and variable cam timing.
WIN, WIN, WIN.

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11349 Jones is one of the best cam guys.
http://www.grandprixforums.net/threa...-lift-duration Good explaination
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Last edited by CobraMarty; 12-01-2016 at 01:05 PM.
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      12-01-2016, 12:56 PM   #29
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And the added benefit between 100-140* Ecc Cam position, as there is slightly more valve lift for a given throttle pedal position/Ecc Cam position, it will feel more responsive just like adding the BMS or Sprint Booster.
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      12-01-2016, 02:23 PM   #30
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MAKE THIS NOW. MORE LIFT. 10.5mm or bust.
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      12-01-2016, 06:54 PM   #31
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I tried 2 different ways and both gave significantly different results.
I want to try a 3rd way which will combine both together and then decide which method to use.
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      12-01-2016, 08:54 PM   #32
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This has potential, I can't wait to see some results.
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      12-02-2016, 05:50 AM   #33
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Another thought I had was to introduce 'swirl' into the combustion chamber. This will promote better mixing and combustion of the fuel and air. This 'swirl' is known to increase efficiency and power. The stock 4 valve head gives no 'swirl' of the incoming charge. The 2 intake valves flow equally and only maybe provides a slight 'tumble' but no 'swirl'.

I can only make both intake valves have more lift together. My thought is I can modify the Ecc Cam to provide slightly less lift to one of the valves. This would be easy enough by just grinding one of the Ecc Cam lobes from about 150* to end 'flat' as to provide no more than 9.7-10.0mm lift.

The idea is that one intake valve will have 10.3-10.5mm lift and 1-3* more duration and the other intake valve will have 9.7-10.0mm lift and 0.5-1* more duration. Because one valve will start flowing before the other and flow more and longer, it will provide 'swirl' to the combustion chamber.

Just thinking down the line for 'what's next'.
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      12-02-2016, 07:05 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraMarty View Post
Another thought I had was to introduce 'swirl' into the combustion chamber. This will promote better mixing and combustion of the fuel and air. This 'swirl' is known to increase efficiency and power. The stock 4 valve head gives no 'swirl' of the incoming charge. The 2 intake valves flow equally and only maybe provides a slight 'tumble' but no 'swirl'.

I can only make both intake valves have more lift together. My thought is I can modify the Ecc Cam to provide slightly less lift to one of the valves. This would be easy enough by just grinding one of the Ecc Cam lobes from about 150* to end 'flat' as to provide no more than 9.7-10.0mm lift.

The idea is that one intake valve will have 10.3-10.5mm lift and 1-3* more duration and the other intake valve will have 9.7-10.0mm lift and 0.5-1* more duration. Because one valve will start flowing before the other and flow more and longer, it will provide 'swirl' to the combustion chamber.

Just thinking down the line for 'what's next'.
I thought the intake cam lobes are offset from the factory, one valve opened first and the second would catch up as the valve lift increased. I assume this was part of the reason why the injectors were so custom.
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      12-02-2016, 08:23 AM   #35
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I don't know about that. I will try and check. Either the intake cam lobes or the Eccentric cam lobes would have to be different for valve 1 and valve 2 for them to move differently. I wouldn't be surprised, because BMW.

With the Ecc Cam profile, they could make the valves move with an offset at low throttle/Ecc Cam position and same at high throttle/Ecc Cam position, or vice versa, or offset completely throughout throttle/Ecc Cam position.
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      12-02-2016, 10:32 AM   #36
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Why not just leave one rocker stock and modify the ratio on the other one?
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      12-02-2016, 11:14 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
Why not just leave one rocker stock and modify the ratio on the other one?
Wouldn't this be an issue for the Valvetronic placement map?
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      12-02-2016, 11:40 AM   #38
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So would modifying the eccentric shaft..
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      12-07-2016, 07:33 PM   #39
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Anything?
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      12-08-2016, 02:29 PM   #40
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Any progress? This technique you've outlined looks really promising, looking forward to hearing how well it works.
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      12-08-2016, 03:04 PM   #41
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Tomorrow I see the machinist and going to have him make up 1 more sample which will combine both of the different methods I tried. Then I will test and measure it and then decide which mod to use. Mod A, Mod B or Mod A+B.
I now have 5 sets of parts to get machined for 5 engines.

More next week...
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      12-08-2016, 03:06 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraMarty View Post
Tomorrow I see the machinist and going to have him make up 1 more sample which will combine both of the different methods I tried. Then I will test and measure it and then decide which mod to use. Mod A, Mod B or Mod A+B.
I now have 5 sets of parts to get machined for 5 engines.

More next week...
Thanks! Gonna be cool.
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      12-13-2016, 11:59 AM   #43
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Are you guys able to adjust your lift with a tune? If so, what is the max lift listed as?

I ask this because the N55 just got the valvetronic tables open, and it lists 9.8 as the target max lift. All the literature I've read says max lift is 9.9mm. So I'm wondering what the target max lift in the ECU vs literature max lift is for the N52. I increased my lift to 9.85 and the car still runs, so might try 9.9. Just wondering if 9.8 was more of a safety from BMW.
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      12-13-2016, 04:42 PM   #44
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the N55 uses all the same valvetrain parts as the N52 (the eccentric shaft is a little different, but this is mostly due to the smaller/faster valvetronic motor). Consequently, the maximum lift is the same (~9.9mm).

I would just set it to 10mm. It's not going to "break" anything. It appears that what happens is the DME will try to adapt closer to the 10mm target as it can get, where if you leave it at the stock setting it will be closer to 9.5-9.6mm in reality.

It also means that any valve lift mods that work on the N52 should also work on the N55.
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