E90Post
 


 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > About Bimmer Performance Center



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-21-2015, 06:51 AM   #45
BudVlad
Old Geezer
BudVlad's Avatar
Czech_Republic
356
Rep
1,193
Posts

Drives: 08 E92 N53B30
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Budweis

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 N53B30  [10.00]
When I installed 3 stage I had the car on dyno before the tune. There was no diference in hp but torgue increased and torque curve flatend. I wonder how will the car behave with N54 manifold before the tune.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      12-21-2015, 07:57 AM   #46
andrey_gta
Brigadier General
andrey_gta's Avatar
Canada
298
Rep
4,040
Posts

Drives: 130i coupé ;)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Bimmerpost

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2008 BMW 128i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob@BPC View Post
N52/N54 intake manifold swap

Hi Bob, welcome to the forums.
I am interested in the n54 intake mod. Do you need the n54 Throttle body? Or does the n52 work?

Is there any benefit to a Throttle body delete on the n54 intake manifold or even the base n52 manifold or the n52 3 stage manifold??

Also, in time and work, does this use of n54 parts mean that n54 turbos can potentially be used add boost to car and make it a mild n54 hybrid?
__________________
128i Sport 6MT converted to Euro 130i spec, 3.73 diff, tuned by evolve ~220 whp 207 wtq(ft-lb) SAE
In-progress: //M front arm, M3 rack, e36M lip Wishlist: Coils, n55 mnts, headers, LSD, e60 finn diff


"The 1-series is the last car that BMW engineered before the Germans, as a car-making culture, fell out of love with driving." - R&T 2013 135is

Last edited by andrey_gta; 12-21-2015 at 08:05 AM..
Appreciate 0
      12-21-2015, 08:34 AM   #47
hassmaschine
Major General
United_States
3940
Rep
7,216
Posts

Drives: "NBO" 330i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BudVlad View Post
When I installed 3 stage I had the car on dyno before the tune. There was no diference in hp but torgue increased and torque curve flatend. I wonder how will the car behave with N54 manifold before the tune.
well you're going to have the stock redline, and just increasing that won't work (even if you could do it separately). It doesn't really have an advantage until high RPM so you'll probably just lose power/torque, especially without a tune. it's the same reason it's not really a good idea on an automatic.
Appreciate 0
      12-21-2015, 08:39 AM   #48
Mike.
Mike: Everyone's Pal
Mike.'s Avatar
No_Country
2041
Rep
2,972
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Eastern Long Island

iTrader: (5)

Garage List
2013 BMW 335xi  [10.00]
ya'll should fabricate an intake like the m3 ones where it grabs air from the grill
__________________

Alpine MSS Stage 2+ E30 tune|MST Intakes|VRSF Single Mid Pipe|Agency Power Intercooler|VTT Full solution crank hub fix
Appreciate 0
      12-21-2015, 09:45 AM   #49
BudVlad
Old Geezer
BudVlad's Avatar
Czech_Republic
356
Rep
1,193
Posts

Drives: 08 E92 N53B30
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Budweis

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 N53B30  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
well you're going to have the stock redline, and just increasing that won't work (even if you could do it separately). It doesn't really have an advantage until high RPM so you'll probably just lose power/torque, especially without a tune. it's the same reason it's not really a good idea on an automatic.
I will get a tune. My last tune by DS Motorsport already raised the redline but I wanted some advice from somebody who already did this tune.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      12-21-2015, 10:12 AM   #50
Bob@BPC
Bob@BPC's Avatar
United_States
864
Rep
642
Posts

Drives: F30 328i Sport Line
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Raleigh

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrey_gta View Post
Hi Bob, welcome to the forums.
I am interested in the n54 intake mod. Do you need the n54 Throttle body? Or does the n52 work?

Is there any benefit to a Throttle body delete on the n54 intake manifold or even the base n52 manifold or the n52 3 stage manifold??
The N52 throttle does not fit on the n54 manifold, so you do need the n54 tb, the electrical connections are the same. I did few pulls with the n54 manifold installed and remove the TB all together and did not see a increase in power, however, I did see better numbers with the MAF removed (Alpha N).

Quote:
Also, in time and work, does this use of n54 parts mean that n54 turbos can potentially be used add boost to car and make it a mild n54 hybrid?
The N52 / N54 exhaust ports are different and the turbos will not bolt on. Im sure BMW did that so people could not do the swap. Im sure you could cut the flanges off and make them fit.

As for the rest of the questions of if it needs a tune or not, yes, for sure. Car does not run right under WOT, AFR is way off. The parts list need for the swap is coming soon, we are working on that this week. Our fabricator is developing an air intake pipe for the swap that removes the stock air box and we will offer a MAF or MAFLESS version. More details at the beginning of the year.
Appreciate 2
      12-21-2015, 05:28 PM   #51
andrey_gta
Brigadier General
andrey_gta's Avatar
Canada
298
Rep
4,040
Posts

Drives: 130i coupé ;)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Bimmerpost

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2008 BMW 128i  [10.00]
Thank you for the explanation.
I guess there is no need for a Throttle body delete effort.
__________________
128i Sport 6MT converted to Euro 130i spec, 3.73 diff, tuned by evolve ~220 whp 207 wtq(ft-lb) SAE
In-progress: //M front arm, M3 rack, e36M lip Wishlist: Coils, n55 mnts, headers, LSD, e60 finn diff


"The 1-series is the last car that BMW engineered before the Germans, as a car-making culture, fell out of love with driving." - R&T 2013 135is
Appreciate 0
      12-21-2015, 07:33 PM   #52
andrey_gta
Brigadier General
andrey_gta's Avatar
Canada
298
Rep
4,040
Posts

Drives: 130i coupé ;)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Bimmerpost

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2008 BMW 128i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BudVlad View Post
I would appreciate if you can give me some pointers for N54 intake manifold installation (I have N53b30). How does it run without a specific tune? What parameter should be changed? Did you have to connect PCV and fuel tank ventilation to vacuum?
Hey BudVlad. This is what I think needs to be addressed.
The n53 manifold has an second large opening near the TB if I recall correctly. This is my n52 manifolds don't work for n53. This will have to be addressed, I don't know how for n53... Maybe a custom cut and tube connection to n54 manifold.

Next looking at the n54 manifold it does not seem to have connections for the oil return / breather pipes that n52 has (older n52 have a separate oil collector). So to address this I think we need custom tubes simmilar to using older 330i manifolds vs the newer 3stage to close the system.
Appreciate 0
      12-22-2015, 02:18 AM   #53
BudVlad
Old Geezer
BudVlad's Avatar
Czech_Republic
356
Rep
1,193
Posts

Drives: 08 E92 N53B30
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Budweis

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 N53B30  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrey_gta View Post
Hey BudVlad. This is what I think needs to be addressed.
The n53 manifold has an second large opening near the TB if I recall correctly. This is my n52 manifolds don't work for n53. This will have to be addressed, I don't know how for n53... Maybe a custom cut and tube connection to n54 manifold.

Next looking at the n54 manifold it does not seem to have connections for the oil return / breather pipes that n52 has (older n52 have a separate oil collector). So to address this I think we need custom tubes simmilar to using older 330i manifolds vs the newer 3stage to close the system.
Opening on N53 manifold is for EGR valve. I eliminated EGR when I installed headers but the coolant hose will have to be reconnected. I’m not sure if PCV has to be connected to vacuum.



Fuel tank ventilation on N54 is connected to TB.

__________________
Appreciate 1
      12-22-2015, 08:24 AM   #54
andrey_gta
Brigadier General
andrey_gta's Avatar
Canada
298
Rep
4,040
Posts

Drives: 130i coupé ;)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Bimmerpost

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2008 BMW 128i  [10.00]
Next the wire loom box on the n52 attaches to the manifold. On the n54 it seems to atach to a bracket from the TB next to the n54 fuel tank ventilator.
n54::
__________________
128i Sport 6MT converted to Euro 130i spec, 3.73 diff, tuned by evolve ~220 whp 207 wtq(ft-lb) SAE
In-progress: //M front arm, M3 rack, e36M lip Wishlist: Coils, n55 mnts, headers, LSD, e60 finn diff


"The 1-series is the last car that BMW engineered before the Germans, as a car-making culture, fell out of love with driving." - R&T 2013 135is

Last edited by andrey_gta; 12-23-2015 at 01:08 PM..
Appreciate 0
      12-24-2015, 01:23 PM   #55
hassmaschine
Major General
United_States
3940
Rep
7,216
Posts

Drives: "NBO" 330i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: earth

iTrader: (0)

How many miles are on the N52 project car?

Looking for an N52 project motor. Found one locally.. with 200,000 miles. Yikes. Maybe I can get it cheap enough to be worth it - would likely need a reseal and head rebuild. Maybe an opportunity to make a set of solid lifters, oversized valves, and adjust the cam timing.
Appreciate 0
      12-24-2015, 01:37 PM   #56
justpete
Brigadier General
United_States
1231
Rep
3,778
Posts

Drives: '11 328i '19 M6
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: DFW

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 BMW M6  [10.00]
2011 BMW 328i  [9.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
How many miles are on the N52 project car?

Looking for an N52 project motor. Found one locally.. with 200,000 miles. Yikes. Maybe I can get it cheap enough to be worth it - would likely need a reseal and head rebuild. Maybe an opportunity to make a set of solid lifters, oversized valves, and adjust the cam timing.
Dumb question but does the N52 look like it could benefit from a port and polish? Or some changes to the porting?
__________________
2011 E90 328i 6MT, BMW Aero, CF hood/boot, PI+CAI+RM+3IM+BPC, SS+CI528+ThermoTec+SS#1+2XBurns, AKG 75D eng/trans, Al/Delrin diff/RS, CM 850, UCP, CAE, AKG DSSR, DiffsOnline 3.91 30/90 LSD+BW cooler, C&R, Setrab, Accusump, AST 3-way+Swift, Aurora PR+BW spherical, Vorshlag CPs, M3 brace+UR bar, ARC-8 18x8.5, 255 R1R, RB/CSL rotors+cooling, 135i calipers, RS29, RT700, Safecraft, OMP HTE-R+804F+QD Superquadro, 6pt cage+FIA, Braille, RT DL1Mk3
Appreciate 0
      12-24-2015, 02:13 PM   #57
hassmaschine
Major General
United_States
3940
Rep
7,216
Posts

Drives: "NBO" 330i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: earth

iTrader: (0)

The ports are cnc milled so i doubt there is much that you could do.
Appreciate 0
      12-24-2015, 05:52 PM   #58
332ijunkie
65
Rep
174
Posts

Drives: 08 335i, 87 M52 E30, M52 E36
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Atlanta GA

iTrader: (0)

N52 ecu is target based in regards to AFR. Other than trims maxing the afr won't change with a manifold swap. Still targeting the same lambda value
Appreciate 0
      12-26-2015, 03:39 PM   #59
Bob@BPC
Bob@BPC's Avatar
United_States
864
Rep
642
Posts

Drives: F30 328i Sport Line
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Raleigh

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 332ijunkie View Post
N52 ecu is target based in regards to AFR. Other than trims maxing the afr won't change with a manifold swap. Still targeting the same lambda value
Same Tune, intake manifold swapped(n52 in red vs n54 in blue) with the maf and airbox installed. Once again, only change was the intake manifold. Cleared adaptions as well, still trimmed lean. The car needs to be retuned for the intake swap

EDIT, posted before and after manifold swap, clearing adaptions.
Dark blue is after
Attached Images
  

Last edited by Bob@BPC; 12-26-2015 at 03:47 PM..
Appreciate 0
      12-28-2015, 08:14 AM   #60
Blindside_137
Lieutenant General
Blindside_137's Avatar
United_States
6694
Rep
10,595
Posts

Drives: 2011.75 SSII E90 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Raleigh, NC

iTrader: (2)

I absolutely love everything you guys are doing at BPC! I always receive nothing but the best care when I bring my car in. It's a luxury having such a BMW detailed and experienced shop so close by.

Keep up the great work!
Appreciate 1
      12-30-2015, 07:38 AM   #61
Dan Bilzerian
Major
Dan Bilzerian's Avatar
355
Rep
1,192
Posts

Drives: E90 325i 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Edmonds,WA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
That should really only be necessary with the supercharger. That was right around 295-300whp. If we're getting that with N/A and running out of fuel I think we'd be doing pretty damn well for ourselves!
Let's just do it!(make 300whp only N/A) There shan't be anymore ifs
Appreciate 0
      12-30-2015, 08:50 AM   #62
Bob@BPC
Bob@BPC's Avatar
United_States
864
Rep
642
Posts

Drives: F30 328i Sport Line
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Raleigh

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Bilzerian View Post
Let's just do it!(make 300whp only N/A) There shan't be anymore ifs
With the right intake and set of cams, she'll hit 300
Appreciate 0
      12-30-2015, 08:55 AM   #63
Dan Bilzerian
Major
Dan Bilzerian's Avatar
355
Rep
1,192
Posts

Drives: E90 325i 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Edmonds,WA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob@BPC View Post
With the right intake and set of cams, she'll hit 300
That's what I'm talking about Bob!!! Sounds expensive but oh well
Appreciate 0
      12-30-2015, 09:00 AM   #64
justpete
Brigadier General
United_States
1231
Rep
3,778
Posts

Drives: '11 328i '19 M6
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: DFW

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 BMW M6  [10.00]
2011 BMW 328i  [9.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob@BPC View Post
With the right intake and set of cams, she'll hit 300
Did somebody mention cams?

In line, cash in hand!
__________________
2011 E90 328i 6MT, BMW Aero, CF hood/boot, PI+CAI+RM+3IM+BPC, SS+CI528+ThermoTec+SS#1+2XBurns, AKG 75D eng/trans, Al/Delrin diff/RS, CM 850, UCP, CAE, AKG DSSR, DiffsOnline 3.91 30/90 LSD+BW cooler, C&R, Setrab, Accusump, AST 3-way+Swift, Aurora PR+BW spherical, Vorshlag CPs, M3 brace+UR bar, ARC-8 18x8.5, 255 R1R, RB/CSL rotors+cooling, 135i calipers, RS29, RT700, Safecraft, OMP HTE-R+804F+QD Superquadro, 6pt cage+FIA, Braille, RT DL1Mk3
Appreciate 0
      12-30-2015, 10:27 PM   #65
W37V
[Oo=||=oO]
No_Country
1101
Rep
2,469
Posts

Drives: e92n52 & f15n57
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: DMV

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob@BPC View Post
With the right intake and set of cams, she'll hit 300
you got my attention. (Even more than before)
Appreciate 0
      12-30-2015, 10:45 PM   #66
justpete
Brigadier General
United_States
1231
Rep
3,778
Posts

Drives: '11 328i '19 M6
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: DFW

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 BMW M6  [10.00]
2011 BMW 328i  [9.00]
I'm looking for a bottom end rebuild with Carrillo rods, rings, pins, custom pistons, race journal bearings, ARP hardware, blueprint and balance, etc. to bring compression up to 12.5 along with a skimmed head. One piece stainless valves, race springs, three angle grind, etc. on the head with a balanced valve train if needed, and a tune to run 100 octane race fuel. That and the Easter Bunny cuz I'll probably find that sooner...
__________________
2011 E90 328i 6MT, BMW Aero, CF hood/boot, PI+CAI+RM+3IM+BPC, SS+CI528+ThermoTec+SS#1+2XBurns, AKG 75D eng/trans, Al/Delrin diff/RS, CM 850, UCP, CAE, AKG DSSR, DiffsOnline 3.91 30/90 LSD+BW cooler, C&R, Setrab, Accusump, AST 3-way+Swift, Aurora PR+BW spherical, Vorshlag CPs, M3 brace+UR bar, ARC-8 18x8.5, 255 R1R, RB/CSL rotors+cooling, 135i calipers, RS29, RT700, Safecraft, OMP HTE-R+804F+QD Superquadro, 6pt cage+FIA, Braille, RT DL1Mk3
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:40 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST