[micah_675]

Again, do it yourself since your so keen on allowing others to do your work for you dtc100. There are plenty of places where you can find proof. Then again. I am sure you will not listen to reason anyway.

http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.ph...13561&t=113561

there is your "proof". Waaa baby.

and more

http://www.wildweasel.ca/HowTo/Auto/eturbo.aspx

[Das.Euro]

DTC100 : Its logical sense.. Oh ya i forgot you dont have that lol..Where is proof that the echarger works? Cuz of some false dyno charts lol get your head out of your ass , im a realist and thats why you think im a d*ck . Im sorry but if i do mods, i do real mods that make a difference. Ive modded cars for MANY years, ive done from your basic BS bolt ons to fully built motors and turbos. I mean seriously how old are you and have you ever modded cars before? From your reactions it clearly shows you dont know basic science, math, and physics .

Where have you shown US your proven gains? I dont see any before and after dyno sheets or numbers from you... Why cuz you "felt" it faster? lol thats not a true claim, thats a mental claim and many factors come into play when doing a butt dyno...
I would love to see a real dyno chart from AIR scoops...
Aftermarket filters are good yes, but they are nothing special to rave about powerwise and wouldnt consider it a" MOD " ...

[dtc100]

[QUOTE=micah_675;8542854]Again, do it yourself since your so keen on allowing others to do your work for you dtc100. There are plenty of places where you can find proof. Then again. I am sure you will not listen to reason anyway.

[url]http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=40

[dtc100]

[QUOTE=micah_675;8542854]Again, do it yourself since your so keen on allowing others to do your work for you dtc100. There are plenty of places where you can find proof. Then again. I am sure you will not listen to reason anyway.

[url]http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=40

[Das.Euro]

LOL you dont even know how to post you n00b , go cut away at your intake to gain 100whp

[IcebergM4]

[dtc100]

Originally Posted by Das.Euro

LOL you dont even know how to post you n00b , go cut away at your intake to gain 100whp

You obviously have never heard an iPhone. This new app has some clear bugs I just have not found time to deal with it, you idiot!

[Das.Euro]

Sorry pumpkin but i own an Iphone lol.. Maybe if you cut out your screen on your iphone it wil boot up faster from your DIY intake mod

[dtc100]

Originally Posted by micah_675

Again, do it yourself since your so keen on allowing others to do your work for you dtc100. There are plenty of places where you can find proof. Then again. I am sure you will not listen to reason anyway.

http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.ph...13561&t=113561

there is your "proof". Waaa baby.

and more

http://www.wildweasel.ca/HowTo/Auto/eturbo.aspx

Thank you for posting the links, now I am ready to explain why.

First make no mistake about it, both testers said more air in the engine, more power it will produce, don’t argue with me, argue with them if you disagree.

Now the problem with this type of electric charger is, it only adds very little air compared to how much air the engine pumps in by itself, so little that the blades and other obstacles in the charger will restrict the air flow into the engine and more than cancel out any more air it tries to pump in.

This actually supports why the drop in/carbon delete/air scoops should work. Because they in no way restrict the air flow, only to allow more air to pass, with the air scoops to further increase the air flow at high traveling speed.

The air scoop manufactures have dynos on the 335i and M3, tested at air flow speed of 70 mph, the increase of the HP is from 9 to 15 hp.

Of course no one is claiming that some air scoops will add a lot of power, everything is relative, we are talking boost v. cost here. My total cost of my intake mod is about $100 without considering the drop in because I needed to replace the air filter anyway. The drop in is actually cheaper since it is reusable.

At such a low cost, a 9 to 15 hp gain, even if only a 5 to 10 hp gain for a 328i is a more bang for the buck mod than any of Euro’s intake, exhaust, or even some of the ECU tunes will do for the money.

Again we are discussing the NA engines here, we don’t know what fantasy land Euro sleeps in, a $400 ECU tune will only give us about 10 hp gain for our NA engines, the air scoops are clearly a worthy mod for as low as $40.

Learn how to read, you will be glad you do!

[Das.Euro]

Ok this is where all of your inexperience kicks in once again LOL.. Clearly shows you have never owned a turbo before, you do realize a turbo does have blades in it which are called turbines and they would be " in the way " as you claim. Problem here is the electric sh*t dont work, its not producing BOOST in anyway as if a turbo would or a supercharger.

Ok once again your n00bness kicks in, you do realize the 335 is twin turbo and the m3 motor is WAY different then a 328 motor right? So the gains will be EXTREMELY less on our cars.

Show me a dyno that can claim 10whp from your mods DTC.. I never said dont do your mods , drop in filter and carbon delete seem like a good way to get better flow for sure , never said it wasnt, i just am clearly being REAL and you will only gain minimal gains from it, not the way you swear you do n00b.

Yes , a tune is the most logical MOD to do if your looking for real power, and a real tune not just adjust throttle response. Fully modified map , which most tuners will do is make the car run a bit leaner and adjust timing etc for some gains . Do you know what a standalone is? Prob not, how do you think tuners make more power from the same mods? Its called tuning.

ANd again ... where are your dynos?

[dtc100]

Originally Posted by Das.Euro

Ok this is where all of your inexperience kicks in once again LOL.. Clearly shows you have never owned a turbo before, you do realize a turbo does have blades in it which are called turbines and they would be " in the way " as you claim. Problem here is the electric sh*t dont work, its not producing BOOST in anyway as if a turbo would or a supercharger.

Ok once again your n00bness kicks in, you do realize the 335 is twin turbo and the m3 motor is WAY different then a 328 motor right? So the gains will be EXTREMELY less on our cars.

Show me a dyno that can claim 10whp from your mods DTC.. I never said dont do your mods , drop in filter and carbon delete seem like a good way to get better flow for sure , never said it wasnt, i just am clearly being REAL and you will only gain minimal gains from it, not the way you swear you do n00b.

Yes , a tune is the most logical MOD to do if your looking for real power, and a real tune not just adjust throttle response. Fully modified map , which most tuners will do is make the car run a bit leaner and adjust timing etc for some gains . Do you know what a standalone is? Prob not, how do you think tuners make more power from the same mods? Its called tuning.

ANd again ... where are your dynos?

First of all, you again proved you have no ability to read! Turbos do their jobs because they add so much psi any obstacles in the turbo charger that might restrict the air flow are insignificant, but not that electric charger because it adds only a little more air therefore the restrictions become a real issue.

BTW why are you constantly bragging about your turbo? You need to know folks here do not have turbos, but we are still interested in gains.

What is the purpose of you here, trying to convince us we should just buy a turbo car? If so you should have realized a long time ago that you have failed.

But course with your reading capacity I am not surprised you still don't get it.

[Das.Euro]

What you just said makes no sense ( or i just dont speak dumb ) at all about your turbo comment and again you have cleared shown that you have no idea how a turbo works or what its internals consist of.Im not bragging about my turbo as i own a 328 clearly , i am speaking from EXPERIENCE owning and modifing turbo cars, run dyno runs, and actually tuning my own car for extra power on a piggyback tune and laptop . This subject is about an Echarger which you for some reason think would work which says enough about you already. Yes i know people are interested in gains but not by your dumb so called DIY mod where you totally gained NOTHING from wrapping and cutting your intake piping lol..Where was i trying to tell anyone to buy a turbo car anywhere? Your trying to compare gains from other motors you dumbass .How about you stay on topic and stop just digging yourself into a deeper hole of stupidity. Please just stop talking, thank you and stop riding my nuts bro!

[carbidetech]

One time, in band camp, I took a hair drier from the girls camp and super glued it to my intake. I got a true 3.22321 gain in hp at the rear wheels. I could tell because I could peel out farther than before. I ran out of extension cord after 100ft and I could tell the car was slower.

I put helium in my tires and now the car's faster because it's lighter.

I put an air bubbler from my aquarium in my gas tank and now I have super oxygenated fuel for even more hp gains. The goldfish died though.

[Das.Euro]

LMAO ^^^ please dont give DTC100 ideas man please lol..

[micah_675]

Here is the issue with your logic dtc100. These fans DONT actually add air, they add restriction, they are incapable with moving enough air to keep up with the demands of the engine. (plain and simple and engine is an AIR PUMP) The more air it moves the BETTER it preforms. That being said, to make it better the fan has to move MORE air than the engine can on its own. On top of that the fans are incapable of producing POSITIVE air pressure (what is known as boosting). Therefore, these do not do squat.

If you watched the video you would see the boost gauge the guy ran show NO PSI in the intake. Meaning that the fan is moving less than or equal to the amount of air the engine is able to pull on its own. Oh btw at idle if it can't keep up at WOT, it will fall behind. Because the amount of air pumped increases with the increase of throttle.

Also do you understand how a turbo actually works?

Exauhst gasses spin the turbine which is directly connected to another turbine that inducts air. That air induction is GREATER than the amount of air being drawn in by the engine. That is possible because the exauhst gasses (the gas being expelled by the engine) is propelling the turbine. Which means the more air being taken in means the more air being expelled. The greatest factor of all of this is because it brings in more than the engine needs, it creates PRESSURE. Pressure at the valves means the engines stroke does not determine how much air is inducted it flows into the void freely because inside the piston there is less pressure than outside. The only time the pistons do the major work of taking in air is when the car is started after that the natural cycle of the motor takes over.

Also maybe you should read this.....

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=919935

Maybe you should also read up on air density.... (which ironically is what a MAF measures....)

[just4kickz]

i put five of these in my car...the more the merrier.

[carbidetech]

oh,oh,oh..wait...wait...I just went outside and duct taped my mother-in-laws mouth to my intake manifold and now I have waayyyy too much positive intake pressure. I stuck a kazoo up her butt for a blow off valve.

[dtc100]

Originally Posted by micah_675

Here is the issue with your logic dtc100. These fans DONT actually add air, they add restriction, they are incapable with moving enough air to keep up with the demands of the engine. (plain and simple and engine is an AIR PUMP) The more air it moves the BETTER it preforms. That being said, to make it better the fan has to move MORE air than the engine can on its own. On top of that the fans are incapable of producing POSITIVE air pressure (what is known as boosting). Therefore, these do not do squat.

Are you trying to agree with me or disagree with me? What you just said was what I said, so you need to be clear if you are trying to disagree or rather agree before I can respond

Also do you understand how a turbo actually works?

I never pretended I was a turbo expert, in fact no expert in any or these, what is your point?

Exauhst gasses spin the turbine which is directly connected to another turbine that inducts air. That air induction is GREATER than the amount of air being drawn in by the engine. That is possible because the exauhst gasses (the gas being expelled by the engine) is propelling the turbine. Which means the more air being taken in means the more air being expelled. The greatest factor of all of this is because it brings in more than the engine needs, it creates PRESSURE. Pressure at the valves means the engines stroke does not determine how much air is inducted it flows into the void freely because inside the piston there is less pressure than outside. The only time the pistons do the major work of taking in air is when the car is started after that the natural cycle of the motor takes over.

Also maybe you should read this.....

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=919935

Maybe you should also read up on air density.... (which ironically is what a MAF measures....)

So what is your point? Are you trying to prove that more air pressure applied to an NA engine is of no help at all? If more air density is measured by the MAF, wouldn't the ECU match the air with more fuel so the engine will produce more power? Of course it is nothing compared to a turbo booster, but still a gain is a gain, whether it is worth the effort has everything to do with how much effort and cost are involved.

You see there are a lot of factors involved in a single issue. If one is only capable of zero in on a single factor, like Euro is doing, one will miss the issue.

He insists a person who spends $40 to do an air scoop mod must also do a $500 dyno test to prove to him the exact gain, else the mod is shit. That is an unreasonable demand.

A smaller mod or smaller gain requires a lesser proof, a more expensive mod and a more grand claim requires more grand proof. For a $40 mod, in my view the manufactrue's dyno claim, in combination with users' actuall data such as the lowered engine temp measured, the faster 0 to 60 time clocked after than before, should be sufficient to prove the value of that $40 mod.

On the other hand, a $900 ecu tune better has more dyno charts not only from the manufacture, but from the end users to convince others to get on board.

You can have all the detailed knowledge of how all those engine technologies work, it is of no use to you if you cannot also read the debate and determine what the arguments are all about. This is an NA forum, no one here is trying to argue against how your turbo works and why it works and why that electric charger does not work.

I am not saying you cannot discuss turbo technology, what I am asking is, whenever discussing the issues here, alway remember this is an NA forum, most of us (some do want a forced induction kit of course but they are the minority) are not interested in turbo technologies, rather how to improve our NA engines. Some of the mods have been proven silly such as the above electric charger, yet in fact even in the above link you provided, there is the example of how an electric charger can work for an NA engine, only that you need a much more expensive system to make it work.

The point again is, one needs to be able to consider all the factors involved in a particular mod to determine the cost v. the benefit, and what kind of proof is needed for what kind of mods.

A more expensive mod with a more gand claim must have more extensive and grand proof, a simple and inexpensive mod requires less proof.

If Euro can produce a dyno chart to prove that the air scoops cannot provide any gain at all regardless what speed the car is driving, then he has a point, short of that, for a $40 mod, the manufacture's dyno claim, the end users own data collected, and the improved 0 to 60 time, are sufficient proof.

While the above electric charger has been proven useless, as I had explained, and you also repeated what I had said, that is not to say one cannot build an electric charger to actually work for an NA engine, only that it will need much more energy supply with its own dedicated heavy duty battery pack, and more expensive charge unit, and provide only a short term boost of power, not some continuous boost.

But still the fact a more dedicated electric charger will work for an NA engine is proof that more air will boost an NA engine's power, just like a turbo charger will work for a turbo engine sytem, only in very different degrees and pattern.

[Das.Euro]

Ok all your doing is saying the same shit over n over but in different words . A dyno doesn't cost 500 bucks and a ecu tune doent cost 900 bucks so I dunno where you got them figures from . Why do you even try and justify yourself when you have no idea on what your talking about? No shit this is a na section , but the OP posted something about an echarger that turned into a joke and for some reason you don't have any sarcasm .

And lets say they did make an elecric charger that can push enough air into the motor , you do realize the ECU cant accomodate it right? Adding more fuel and air doesnt JUST work with magic and adding more fuel doesnt mean more power, you will run rich which and not enough fuel you will lean out the motor. Your n00bness appears once again, what will happen is the ecu will say hmm lets push more fuel aka running your duty cycle prob @ 100% on stock injectors and causing failure which will lead to a blown motor, you wont get MORE fuel , it will work your injector rates at its PEAK, when doing such turbo upgrades , you upgrade your fuel injectors with higher flow rates , set a higher BAR on the FPR , and get a higher pumping fuel pump as well . Once your injectors are upgraded this means they can flow more fuel at a lower duty cycle @ WOT with adding any fatigure to cause failure and keeping a nice mix on the a/f @WOT, personally i recommend as close as you can to 12 on the wideband guage for your a/f mixture which should be mounted 12-14 inches after the turbo itself. Now you can adjust the FPR @ whatever bar is best suited for your fuel flow rate or you can get an AFPR wich will increase fuel rate as/when needed. More air , needs more fuel , and the quicker you burn it the better so its best to upgrade exhuast parts as well. You can also run a lower compression for higher boost applications, forged rods , pistons, balanced crankshaft , bore N stroke , turbo cams , valves , lifters , valve springs , port N polish either 3 or 5 degress angle cuts depending on application. Then you need a tuned ecu to help with the turbo application which will correct and adjust all thats needed on certain map files etc, customized map files, or you can run a standalone system and setup custom map files as well. So ya you cant just put something on a car and think it will work. You prob are lost reading this and have no clue on wtf i am talking about so do yourself a favor and keep steppin , class 101 is finished .. And yes i think air scoops are useless very much so..no need for me to provide a dyno chart cuz i am not the one making claims that they worked for me lol but YOU are and you cant even provide anything in writing for me, words dont mean shit, i wanna see charts, until then keep thinking your cool..

[dtc100]

Originally Posted by Das.Euro

but the OP posted something about an echarger that turned into a joke and for some reason you don't have any sarcasm .

The OP asked for info on this item, what he got was shit stupid sarcasm that had no quality at all, no one was interested to find out or tell him why that thing did not work, until I cut in, more information flew from it and we now know why, and we also now know electric charger can work for an NA eninge, just need more extensive design.

You want to try sarcasm with me? You ain't seen nothing yet.

And lets say they did make an elecric charger that can push enough air into the motor , you do realize the ECU cant accomodate it right? Adding more fuel and air doesnt JUST work with magic and adding more fuel doesnt mean more power, you will run rich which and not enough fuel you will lean out the motor. Your n00bness appears once again, what will happen is the ecu will say hmm lets push more fuel aka running your duty cycle prob @ 100% on stock injectors and causing failure which will lead to a blown motor, you wont get MORE fuel , it will work your injector rates at its PEAK, when doing such turbo upgrades , you upgrade your fuel injectors with higher flow rates , set a higher BAR on the FPR , and get a higher pumping fuel pump as well . Once your injectors are upgraded this means they can flow more fuel at a lower duty cycle @ WOT with adding any fatigure to cause failure and keeping a nice mix on the a/f @WOT, personally i recommend as close as you can to 12 on the wideband guage for your a/f mixture which should be mounted 12-14 inches after the turbo itself. Now you can adjust the FPR @ whatever bar is best suited for your fuel flow rate or you can get an AFPR wich will increase fuel rate as/when needed. More air , needs more fuel , and the quicker you burn it the better so its best to upgrade exhuast parts as well. You can also run a lower compression for higher boost applications, forged rods , pistons, balanced crankshaft , bore N stroke , turbo cams , valves , lifters , valve springs , port N polish either 3 or 5 degress angle cuts depending on application. Then you need a tuned ecu to help with the turbo application which will correct and adjust all thats needed on certain map files etc, customized map files, or you can run a standalone system and setup custom map files as well. So ya you cant just put something on a car and think it will work. You prob are lost reading this and have no clue on wtf i am talking about so do yourself a favor and keep steppin , class 101 is finished .. And yes i think air scoops are useless very much so..no need for me to provide a dyno chart cuz i am not the one making claims that they worked for me lol but YOU are and you cant even provide anything in writing for me, words dont mean shit, i wanna see charts, until then keep thinking your cool..

Again you cannot understand it, we in this NA forum are not interested in your turbo technology nor are we trying to push the engine so hard to achieve even close to the turbo gain. We are finding some very basic and inexpensive mods that can provide more air to the engine, and add a few horses, it is certainly achievable and proven with data from both the manufactures and end users, so why don't you go back to the turbo forum, because people there can really use your expertise to help out those HPFP crap you know, you are in the wrong forum.

[Spitfirocks]

I did the drop in filter, carbon delete, and added scoops, and my car is NOTICEABLY faster. however insignificant it may be, it performs way better, revs quicker, and does my little "speed trap test" quite a few mph better than before.

[BlackBimmer1991]

Im to lazy to read the back and forth argument so can someone tell me who is winning?