[Bubbles]

iScream and meyerguru

FYI

I have witnessed the software load of an ECU following the issuance of the iBAC authorization number. The lag-fix software does exist for early builds. BMW is being very stingy with these authorization codes. The car was the first done at the dealership with the new system.

[Tschuss]

Originally Posted by crash1977

Are you saying that the dealer can program cars with 29.2 to have no lag without updating the car to a newer Progman or ISTA/P ?

I'm saying that my car was updated to ISTA/p 2.32.1 then a procedure known through the roundtable as Turbo Retrofit was done. At least that was the procedure in early January.

ISTA/P is the only route to a lag solution. The latest progman ver 32.1 does not solve the lag issue. This is per my SM who did the work personally.

-B

[shaddai]

Originally Posted by Tschuss

I'm saying that my car was updated to ISTA/p 2.32.1 then a procedure known through the roundtable as Turbo Retrofit was done. At least that was the procedure in early January.

ISTA/P is the only route to a lag solution. The latest progman ver 32.1 does not solve the lag issue. This is per my SM who did the work personally.

-B

It's crystal clear on the sheet I photographed that the update can be applied via Progman or ISTA/P. See my post here.

[meyergru]

Originally Posted by shaddai

It's crystal clear on the sheet I photographed that the update can be applied via Progman or ISTA/P. See my post here.

It is clear that v32.1 can be applied by both Progman and ISTA/P, but maybe the possibility to select a variant is something that is limited to ISTA/P?

My foreman told me that the reason for the real fix taking so long was that they wanted to find a field solution instead of a risky "downgrade". To my understanding, the new diagnostic system is the prerequisite to do that. Maybe this was the reason to integrate the lag-fix first with a release of ISTA. But I am guessing here.

[shaddai]

Originally Posted by meyergru

It is clear that v32.1 can be applied by both Progman and ISTA/P, but maybe the possibility to select a variant is something that is limited to ISTA/P?

My foreman told me that the reason for the real fix taking so long was that they wanted to find a field solution instead of a risky "downgrade". To my understanding, the new diagnostic system is the prerequisite to do that. Maybe this was the reason to integrate the lag-fix first with a release of ISTA. But I am guessing here.

I bet you're spot on with that.

[Tschuss]

Originally Posted by shaddai

It's crystal clear on the sheet I photographed that the update can be applied via Progman or ISTA/P. See my post here.

It's crystal clear that you have a piece of paper. Folks on these pages are being pulled in all directions. I'm not an expert. I don't work for BMW. Solutions evolve. I do know this: The service department at my dealership acknowledged the lag problem early on. When ISTA/P v2.32.1 was available I got in there to be the guinea pig. The SM did the work himself. It took almost 2 days before I got the car back.

The information that I provided was a verbatim response from my SM to help the folks in this forum to have specific information to present to your clueless BMW service personnel (if they are clueless, it seems that some understand the issues and solutions and other show up for coffee and donuts.)

I was specifically told that Progman could not solve the lag issue. ISTA/P must be used. Maybe that's changed.

What a friggin mess.

-B

[meyergru]

Originally Posted by Tschuss

It's crystal clear that you have a piece of paper. Folks on these pages are being pulled in all directions. I'm not an expert. I don't work for BMW. Solutions evolve. I do know this: The service department at my dealership acknowledged the lag problem early on. When ISTA/P v2.32.1 was available I got in there to be the guinea pig. The SM did the work himself. It took almost 2 days before I got the car back.

The information that I provided was a verbatim response from my SM to help the folks in this forum to have specific information to present to your clueless BMW service personnel (if they are clueless, it seems that some understand the issues and solutions and other show up for coffee and donuts.)

I was specifically told that Progman could not solve the lag issue. ISTA/P must be used. Maybe that's changed.

What a friggin mess.

-B

Don't fight, guys. You and shaddai can both be right. If I am guessing correctly, YOUR problem can only be solved with ISTA, because by default, you'd have got the rattle-fix with your build-date.

With Progman, your dealer cannot choose the lag-fix. That does not interfere with the possibility to apply the v32.1 update via Progman at all. Since there are delays in the ICOM/ISTA rollout, dealers that still have only Progman must be kept able to apply updates with that too - BMW builds other cars and engines and there are other problems than lag alone.

And you are right: What a friggin' mess. It is most annoying to not have proper information.

[shaddai]

Originally Posted by meyergru

Don't fight, guys. You and shaddai can both be right. If I am guessing correctly, YOUR problem can only be solved with ISTA, because by default, you'd have got the rattle-fix with your build-date.

With Progman, your dealer cannot choose the lag-fix. That does not interfere with the possibility to apply the v32.1 update via Progman at all. Since there are delays in the ICOM/ISTA rollout, dealers that still have only Progman must be kept able to apply updates with that too - BMW builds other cars and engines and there are other problems than lag alone.

And you are right: What a friggin' mess. It is most annoying to not have proper information.

Trying not to I hope it's not being interpreted as fighting. There's plenty of conflicting information that is out here that's been given to us from a number of sources, trustworthy or not.

Anyways... this reminds me of this XKCD comic... http://xkcd.com/386/

[ezatnova]

I'm pretty sure they need ISTA/P to load the fix. My dealer has been good and fixed it properly and all, and they told me that they needed to wait until they got the ISSS up and running before they could fix my car (3/07 build).

[RBBMWE46M3]

Its snowing so hard outside my window now it looks like it is dense fog...2 inches an hour...anyway...now that I have had a chance to drive the car for a few days, the initial hesitation from a rolling start is still there. I don't feel the pull until the tac reads around 3k. The car does still seem a little more powerful though in the upper rpm range. If I keep the revs up it seems like the car has a bit more power and the exhaust note is slightly throatier(word?) no popping or burbling (I never had this before) I'm curious as to if my service department has an IQ over 3. All the research I have done points to a msd 81 ecu. They specifically told me I have msd 80 with a 4/08 build date. Is there a physical way to disassemble the car to verify I have msd 80? I'm thinking that I have msd81 with the way my car is performing. One question I do have is does anyone have any ass time besides me that has driven a pre29.2 manufactured car and has driven post 29.2 manufactured car completely stock? If I were a new buyer looking at the new 335's having a lease up or whatever and having had an older 335 I would be pretty dissapointed feeling the difference, its amazing. There is a lot of difference. I have a feeling there are going to be some people chiming in on this forum stating this same fact. I read a few posts ago about a new thread about the post29.2 performance characteristics of cars with a build date >3/08. Did they detune for hundreds of reasons?....rattling waste gates, slow m3 sales, who knows....Yes, my car feels different, is it any better? I guess a little, it has been so frigging long ago that I took that test drive maybe I have the placebo hangover.

[shaddai]

Originally Posted by RBBMWE46M3

Its snowing so hard outside my window now it looks like it is dense fog...2 inches an hour...anyway...now that I have had a chance to drive the car for a few days, the initial hesitation from a rolling start is still there. I don't feel the pull until the tac reads around 3k. The car does still seem a little more powerful though in the upper rpm range. If I keep the revs up it seems like the car has a bit more power and the exhaust note is slightly throatier(word?) no popping or burbling (I never had this before) I'm curious as to if my service department has an IQ over 3. All the research I have done points to a msd 81 ecu. They specifically told me I have msd 80 with a 4/08 build date. Is there a physical way to disassemble the car to verify I have msd 80? I'm thinking that I have msd81 with the way my car is performing. One question I do have is does anyone have any ass time besides me that has driven a pre29.2 manufactured car and has driven post 29.2 manufactured car completely stock? If I were a new buyer looking at the new 335's having a lease up or whatever and having had an older 335 I would be pretty dissapointed feeling the difference, its amazing. There is a lot of difference. I have a feeling there are going to be some people chiming in on this forum stating this same fact. I read a few posts ago about a new thread about the post29.2 performance characteristics of cars with a build date >3/08. Did they detune for hundreds of reasons?....rattling waste gates, slow m3 sales, who knows....Yes, my car feels different, is it any better? I guess a little, it has been so frigging long ago that I took that test drive maybe I have the placebo hangover.

Either PM your VIN to Meyergru, or put the last seven in at RealOEM.com. Click Browse Parts after putting in your vin, then go to section 12 (Engine Electrical System) then to 12 10 (Control Unit). You will see at least one MSD8x unit, possibly both. Click on one and see if it says part numbers, or if it says "No parts found matching your car."

[RBBMWE46M3]

My bad, I knew of this post and I never tried it. Thanks Shaddi. It says I have msd81...If any of you know of Levin BMW in Schererville Indiana stay the phuck away from them....ree-tahds. Ive been told since the beginning that I have msd 80. Now that I think that I have been re-flashed with v32.x, who the phick knows if they even did anything to my car. On my service record it only stated what I posted before. No technical info whatsoever. I guess all >3/08 cars will have the de-tuned version. What a disappointment....this is my service paperwork...doesn't say much...

[shaddai]

Originally Posted by RBBMWE46M3

My bad, I knew of this post and I never tried it. Thanks Shaddi. It says I have msd81...If any of you know of Levin BMW in Schererville Indiana stay the phuck away from them....ree-tahds. Ive been told since the beginning that I have msd 80. Now that I think that I have been re-flashed with v32.x, who the phick knows if they even did anything to my car. On my service record it only stated what I posted before. No technical info whatsoever. I guess all >3/08 cars will have the de-tuned version. What a disappointment....this is my service paperwork...doesn't say much...

I wish I had known about the RealOEM thing a month ago...

Now you have to update your sig with some cow pooping on a MSD81 controller.

[goldenmeeko]

if i have an 09 that i bought in 12/2008, should i get the update? im sorry im really noob so i dont know if i have it or not and im not sure the prodcution date but i think it shouldnt be more than a couple of months

[shaddai]

Originally Posted by goldenmeeko

if i have an 09 that i bought in 12/2008, should i get the update? im sorry im really noob so i dont know if i have it or not and im not sure the prodcution date but i think it shouldnt be more than a couple of months

It's been made pretty clear in the last few pages that 4/08 production on (with MSD81, including all 09+) don't need the update, or won't get much if anything with it. Chances are they'll refuse to update you anyways. Welcome to the new

[RBBMWE46M3]

Originally Posted by goldenmeeko

if i have an 09 that i bought in 12/2008, should i get the update? im sorry im really noob so i dont know if i have it or not and im not sure the prodcution date but i think it shouldnt be more than a couple of months

what you need to do is find someone with msd80 stock with no upgrades and drive his or her car and start the drooling process...your car pretty much sucks compared to earlier versions including mine

[iScream]

I am posting this for the sole reason that I wish to help educate the drivers and the dealerships. This info has been out there for months, yet it took me until today to find the truth, after dealing with several people at BMWNA, three local dealerships, and finally one knowledgeable individual thousands of miles away.

I do NOT advocate harassing BMW into providing you something that is against their policy. i.e. if you never experienced increased lag, then don't try to use this info to get a free tune. I suspect this is why BMW has offered such opaque instruction to their employees, wasting countless of our hours, miles, gallons, and hair follicles in the process.

I know I've flip-flopped once already on the "turbo retrofit" thing, but I always try to go on what I can actually see and feel and also, somewhat regrettably, what the people at BMW tell me. My latest observation was based on the fact that 32.1 improved some things (noise, power curve) for me, but definitely was not 100% the same as the old 2006 software. Also, the SM told me there was no DME update, he was sure of it. I even have ALL of the printouts from the ISTA update. Unfortunately, like 95% of the other people I've dealt with, he did not know the whole story.

I now must flip-flop again and agree with Tschuss that there IS a turbo retrofit option on ISTA 32.1, and it IS already available, with authorization. I cannot say yet whether it is the 2006 tune, because I don't have it.

Unless the SM I talked to earlier today is a pathological liar, which I doubt, he has seen with his own eyes and executed TWICE a particular option from the retrofit menu, which is hidden away only on the ISTA system. It is performed after the car has been brought up to the 32.1 integration level.

Again, it is specifically a wastegate control valve option that is selected from the retrofit menu (which also includes dozens of other non-applicable options) after integration is brought up to ISTA/P 2.32.1.0.2, and THE TECH IS NOT PROMPTED FOR THIS OPTION -- THEY MUST SEEK IT OUT AND SELECT IT THEMSELVES. Progman will not do it. ISTA 2.32.1 alone will not do it.

My car almost stalled today, so I thought the fuel pump might be why I missed out on the 32.1 party, but after several conversations with the experts, I think I've gotten to the bottom of it. Hopefully I will get the retrofit soon and be able to update you all on the results. Please only use this information for good.

[shaddai]

iScream: That's some powerful information right there. Massive thumbs up to you for finding this out and sharing.

[Tschuss]

Originally Posted by meyergru

Don't fight, guys. You and shaddai can both be right. If I am guessing correctly, YOUR problem can only be solved with ISTA, because by default, you'd have got the rattle-fix with your build-date.

With Progman, your dealer cannot choose the lag-fix. That does not interfere with the possibility to apply the v32.1 update via Progman at all. Since there are delays in the ICOM/ISTA rollout, dealers that still have only Progman must be kept able to apply updates with that too - BMW builds other cars and engines and there are other problems than lag alone.

And you are right: What a friggin' mess. It is most annoying to not have proper information.

I'm not trying to start a fight, I don't think Shaddai is either. I've been lurking and posting here for months. It's been very interesting to watch events unfold. It's very frustrating to learn from my own experience, corroborated by the experiences of others, only to have more confusion heaped on. BMW owns this problem - they created it.

A friend of mine wants to get a new 335i but has been holding off until the problem is resolved once and for all. I've driven an MSD81 version of the 335i, I thought it was as laggy as 29.2. Yet per BMW there's no lag with MSD81 cars. Hmmmm.

-B

[meyergru]

Originally Posted by iScream

I am posting this for the sole reason that I wish to help educate the drivers and the dealerships. This info has been out there for months, yet it took me until today to find the truth, after dealing with several people at BMWNA, three local dealerships, and finally one knowledgeable individual thousands of miles away.

I do NOT advocate harassing BMW into providing you something that is against their policy. i.e. if you never experienced increased lag, then don't try to use this info to get a free tune. I suspect this is why BMW has offered such opaque instruction to their employees, wasting countless of our hours, miles, gallons, and hair follicles in the process.

I know I've flip-flopped once already on the "turbo retrofit" thing, but I always try to go on what I can actually see and feel and also, somewhat regrettably, what the people at BMW tell me. My latest observation was based on the fact that 32.1 improved some things (noise, power curve) for me, but definitely was not 100% the same as the old 2006 software. Also, the SM told me there was no DME update, he was sure of it. I even have ALL of the printouts from the ISTA update. Unfortunately, like 95% of the other people I've dealt with, he did not know the whole story.

I now must flip-flop again and agree with Tschuss that there IS a turbo retrofit option on ISTA 32.1, and it IS already available, with authorization. I cannot say yet whether it is the 2006 tune, because I don't have it.

Unless the SM I talked to earlier today is a pathological liar, which I doubt, he has seen with his own eyes and executed TWICE a particular option from the retrofit menu, which is hidden away only on the ISTA system. It is performed after the car has been brought up to the 32.1 integration level.

Again, it is specifically a wastegate control valve option that is selected from the retrofit menu (which also includes dozens of other non-applicable options) after integration is brought up to ISTA/P 2.32.1.0.2, and THE TECH IS NOT PROMPTED FOR THIS OPTION -- THEY MUST SEEK IT OUT AND SELECT IT THEMSELVES. Progman will not do it. ISTA 2.32.1 alone will not do it.

My car almost stalled today, so I thought the fuel pump might be why I missed out on the 32.1 party, but after several conversations with the experts, I think I've gotten to the bottom of it. Hopefully I will get the retrofit soon and be able to update you all on the results. Please only use this information for good.

Not that I did not expect exactly that...

[iScream]

Originally Posted by meyergru

Not that I did not expect exactly that...

oh yeah, you were right, too! (I hope.)

I will let you guys know how it goes.

[iScream]

Originally Posted by Tschuss

I'm not trying to start a fight, I don't think Shaddai is either. I've been lurking and posting here for months. It's been very interesting to watch events unfold. It's very frustrating to learn from my own experience, corroborated by the experiences of others, only to have more confusion heaped on. BMW owns this problem - they created it.

A friend of mine wants to get a new 335i but has been holding off until the problem is resolved once and for all. I've driven an MSD81 version of the 335i, I thought it was as laggy as 29.2. Yet per BMW there's no lag with MSD81 cars. Hmmmm.

-B

totally agree with the bolded part, and this is what frustrates me the most. With the exception of one local dealership that is totally FULL of themselves and won't be getting any of my business, I have had mostly good experiences with SM's, SA's, and techs who were genuinely trying to figure out how to solve my problem. I'm sure these guys don't want to spend 3-4 hours staring at a computer screen, only to have me come back madder than before.

Even BMWNA customer service has TRIED to help, albeit to a lesser extent. Some of them do not realize that they are nothing more than toadies for "groß Bruder."