[Dave_e90]

Hey guys, I am new to the forum and the BMW platform as well. I picked up a 2007 335i e90. It has a sound like air is escaping from around the valve cover gasket. I am on a group on FB and posted a vid there and one of the guys in the group said it sounds like my hpfp is on the way out. I have been having long cranks (about 5 to 6) and a loud pop then it starts up. I also have the smell of gas from just putting the key fob in the socket and not even trying to start the car up. There are 4 index 12 injectors and the other two are index 9 and 2. Don't ask me why. I pulled the coils out and cylinder 1 is dry but the other 5 have oil in them. The PO said he replaced the valve cover gasket and the oil cooler gasket. If I can figure out how to post the vid on here I will. Been a long time since I have been on a forum so I forgot how to do the vid upload. The car has not been maintained well at all. So I know I have a lot of work ahead of me. I ordered the injector tool kit and a new oil pan gasket with hardware because the PO said the the belt shredded and it put a gash in the front main seal. IDK if he was lying about a gash because from what I have read the seal is usually done for if the belt ever shreds. I have also ordered hpfp and the water pump because he said it went out and he had to limp it home. If anyone can help point me in the right direction with uploading the vid because I know that will help more than my trying to explain it would be helpful. Thanks in advance.

[dpaul]

Originally Posted by Dave_e90

Hey guys, I am new to the forum and the BMW platform as well. I picked up a 2007 335i e90. It has a sound like air is escaping from around the valve cover gasket. I am on a group on FB and posted a vid there and one of the guys in the group said it sounds like my hpfp is on the way out. I have been having long cranks (about 5 to 6) and a loud pop then it starts up. I also have the smell of gas from just putting the key fob in the socket and not even trying to start the car up. There are 4 index 12 injectors and the other two are index 9 and 2. Don't ask me why. I pulled the coils out and cylinder 1 is dry but the other 5 have oil in them. The PO said he replaced the valve cover gasket and the oil cooler gasket. If I can figure out how to post the vid on here I will. Been a long time since I have been on a forum so I forgot how to do the vid upload. The car has not been maintained well at all. So I know I have a lot of work ahead of me. I ordered the injector tool kit and a new oil pan gasket with hardware because the PO said the the belt shredded and it put a gash in the front main seal. IDK if he was lying about a gash because from what I have read the seal is usually done for if the belt ever shreds. I have also ordered hpfp and the water pump because he said it went out and he had to limp it home. If anyone can help point me in the right direction with uploading the vid because I know that will help more than my trying to explain it would be helpful. Thanks in advance.

Just a suggestion - get yourself some decent diagnostic tools (i.e. BMW standard tools and/or ISTA-D) and spend a little time learning how to use them. Everyone wants to help you but no one can tell you much without at least a list of current error codes. Slow down and reflect before throwing parts at the problem.

1) There is very little in what you describe that sounds like a bad HPFP and if so, you just dropped $550-800 for no reason. To be sure, index 9 injectors were probably the most fragile and unreliable release - would not be surprised if you had injector issues. Let the car sit overnight, pull the plugs in the morning and look/smell for wetness/signs of gasoline

2) Oil on the sparkplugs? I'll assume you mean there was oil in the sparkplug well. Either the oil is left over from before the gasket fail or the previous owned fucked up the new gasket install or the valve cover itself is cracked so the problem wasn't the gasket in the first place. In any case, irrelevent to your driveability issue

3) And the waterpump? You're replacing it on spec without having even read any error codes? Another $350-500 for potentially no reason. Yes, they fail with some frequency but some due diligence is in order. Unless money and time is no issue for you.

4) You bought an oil pan gasket because you think a shredded belt may have damaged the front seal? First, you don't need to replace the oil pan gasket to replace the seal. Second, is there actually any visible damage to the seal or are you just going by what the previous owner told you?

You said it yourself - the car has not been maintained well at all - so don't trust anything the previous owners says or says he did. Start at the beginning and make no assumptions. And read/report the codes

[Dave_e90]

Originally Posted by dpaul

Just a suggestion - get yourself some decent diagnostic tools (i.e. BMW standard tools and/or ISTA-D) and spend a little time learning how to use them. Everyone wants to help you but no one can tell you much without at least a list of current error codes. Slow down and reflect before throwing parts at the problem.

1) There is very little in what you describe that sounds like a bad HPFP and if so, you just dropped $550-800 for no reason. To be sure, index 9 injectors were probably the most fragile and unreliable release - would not be surprised if you had injector issues. Let the car sit overnight, pull the plugs in the morning and look/smell for wetness/signs of gasoline

2) Oil on the sparkplugs? I'll assume you mean there was oil in the sparkplug well. Either the oil is left over from before the gasket fail or the previous owned fucked up the new gasket install or the valve cover itself is cracked so the problem wasn't the gasket in the first place. In any case, irrelevent to your driveability issue

3) And the waterpump? You're replacing it on spec without having even read any error codes? Another $350-500 for potentially no reason. Yes, they fail with some frequency but some due diligence is in order. Unless money and time is no issue for you.

4) You bought an oil pan gasket because you think a shredded belt may have damaged the front seal? First, you don't need to replace the oil pan gasket to replace the seal. Second, is there actually any visible damage to the seal or are you just going by what the previous owner told you?

You said it yourself - the car has not been maintained well at all - so don't trust anything the previous owners says or says he did. Start at the beginning and make no assumptions. And read/report the codes

Sorry forgot to add that I ordered a obd dongle and have bimmerlink and bimmercode already on my phone. Dongle will be here Monday so I will have codes after I get off work.

The only reason I bought those was because the guys in the FB group I am in said that those should be replaced. PO said that water pump did go out and was one of the reasons he wanted to get rid of it besides being in college and not having money to throw at it anymore. Yes there is oil in the spark plug wells as well as in the valley (I guess is what it is called where the injectors are). Can water or gas get in the plug wells? The last three cylinders have what looks to be water and oil mixed. Thanks for the reply!

[dpaul]

Originally Posted by Dave_e90

Sorry forgot to add that I ordered a obd dongle and have bimmerlink and bimmercode already on my phone. Dongle will be here Monday so I will have codes after I get off work.

The only reason I bought those was because the guys in the FB group I am in said that those should be replaced. PO said that water pump did go out and was one of the reasons he wanted to get rid of it besides being in college and not having money to throw at it anymore. Yes there is oil in the spark plug wells as well as in the valley (I guess is what it is called where the injectors are). Can water or gas get in the plug wells? The last three cylinders have what looks to be water and oil mixed. Thanks for the reply!

Glad to hear you see the utility of diagnostic tools. Bimmerlink/bimmercode are probably OK for a start. They won't do what BMW standard tools (a factory level software suite) or ISTA-D (a dealer-level software suite) will do but they will do something. Let's see what they say.

As for the guys in the FB group or posters in E90 or anywhere else, you would be wise to take everything anyone says, including me, with a big grain of salt. Opinions are easy; they have to be justified with logic AND with data.

Gas cannot get into the spark plug wells, unless the high pressure rail is leaking perhaps from a hard line fitting. I've seen it happen, I don't think it's common. Water (rain) could get in if someone left the soundproofing cover off or some very unusual crack might let coolant out. Again not common, but pretty easy to distinguish coolant from water. I'll say it one more time - forget what the original owner said, it's more than clear he had no idea how to diagnose or maintain his vehicle. Find out what the issues are yourself. Start by cleaning the fuck out of everything - all oil, grease, coolant, gas. Then run the engine and see for yourself if, when or where any liquids are accumulating.

[Dave_e90]

Originally Posted by dpaul

Glad to hear you see the utility of diagnostic tools. Bimmerlink/bimmercode are probably OK for a start. They won't do what BMW standard tools (a factory level software suite) or ISTA-D (a dealer-level software suite) will do but they will do something. Let's see what they say.

As for the guys in the FB group or posters in E90 or anywhere else, you would be wise to take everything anyone says, including me, with a big grain of salt. Opinions are easy; they have to be justified with logic AND with data.

Gas cannot get into the spark plug wells, unless the high pressure rail is leaking perhaps from a hard line fitting. I've seen it happen, I don't think it's common. Water (rain) could get in if someone left the soundproofing cover off or some very unusual crack might let coolant out. Again not common, but pretty easy to distinguish coolant from water. I'll say it one more time - forget what the original owner said, it's more than clear he had no idea to diagnose or maintain his vehicle. Find out what the issues are yourself. Start by cleaning the fuck out of everything - all oil, grease, coolant, gas. Then run the engine and see for yourself if, when or where any liquids are accumulating.

Idk how I would clean the areas. I guess just some degreaser

[Dave_e90]

Originally Posted by Dave_e90

Idk how I would clean the areas. I guess just some degreaser

I have no idea what this is or where it goes. He had the fan and the cowl area already taken apart. So I feel like he didn't even change the valve cover gasket.

[dpaul]

Originally Posted by Dave_e90

I have no idea what this is or where it goes. He had the fan and the cowl area already taken apart. So I feel like he didn't even change the valve cover gasket.

It's the cooler for the automatic transmission.

[Dave_e90]

Originally Posted by dpaul

It's the cooler for the automatic transmission.

Thank you for the help and info!

[Dave_e90]

Originally Posted by Dave_e90

Thank you for the help and info!

Well it did end up eating the seal. Pulled the pulley and these pieces of the belt was in the seal area. He put this new belt on and it is eating the outside of the belt. Is there a cause of this?

[Mike K]

Oil filter housing gasket and valve cover gaskets will surely need changing if your main seal is still ok?

[dpaul]

Originally Posted by Dave_e90

Well it did end up eating the seal. Pulled the pulley and these pieces of the belt was in the seal area. He put this new belt on and it is eating the outside of the belt. Is there a cause of this?

One cause is loose power steering pump - bolts back out, pulley gets cocked, belt gets jammed into seal

And/or the power steering pulley contacts the subframe because the engine mounts are worn. Inspect power steering pulley and subframe in possible area of contact

And/or the OFHG leaks, oil gets on the belt, belt degrades, chaos ensues.

You are likely already aware but if not, the big worry is that some of the belt shreds have entered the crankcase and will plug the oil pickup. Oh joy.

EDIT: oh yeah, could also be belt tensioner, AC compressor pulley. Probably more.

[Dave_e90]

Originally Posted by dpaul

One cause is loose power steering pump - bolts back out, pulley gets cocked, belt gets jammed into seal

And/or the power steering pulley contacts the subframe because the engine mounts are worn. Inspect power steering pulley and subframe in possible area of contact

And/or the OFHG leaks, oil gets on the belt, belt degrades, chaos ensues.

You are likely already aware but if not, the big worry is that some of the belt shreds have entered the crankcase and will plug the oil pickup. Oh joy.

Originally Posted by dpaul

One cause is loose power steering pump - bolts back out, pulley gets cocked, belt gets jammed into seal

And/or the power steering pulley contacts the subframe because the engine mounts are worn. Inspect power steering pulley and subframe in possible area of contact

And/or the OFHG leaks, oil gets on the belt, belt degrades, chaos ensues.

You are likely already aware but if not, the big worry is that some of the belt shreds have entered the crankcase and will plug the oil pickup. Oh joy.

I will look at today when I get off work. I'm guessing if the motor mounts are worn the engine will shake like any other motor? I inspected the crank before inserting the seal. Didn't see any pieces of belt in there so hoping for the best that there is not any in the pan but I'm feeling doubtful. My OBD single will be in today so I will know more after that codes wise.

[Dave_e90]

Originally Posted by Dave_e90

I will look at today when I get off work. I'm guessing if the motor mounts are worn the engine will shake like any other motor? I inspected the crank before inserting the seal. Didn't see any pieces of belt in there so hoping for the best that there is not any in the pan but I'm feeling doubtful. My OBD single will be in today so I will know more after that codes wise.

Well got these codes from BimmerLink

[StradaRedlands]

Originally Posted by Dave_e90

Well got these codes from BimmerLink

Yikes!

[Dave_e90]

Originally Posted by StradaRedlands

Yikes!

Originally Posted by StradaRedlands

Yikes!

Yeah tell me about it. Over 50 codes stored. Idk if I need to clear them and start over. Idk how long they have been on there. This is BimmerLink.

[dpaul]

Originally Posted by Dave_e90

Well got these codes from BimmerLink

Bimmerlink doesn't indicate which of those is currently present. Best guess is that most of them are not. Some are obviously not, like system voltage <9. Clear them all, restart the motor, then see which come back.

[StradaRedlands]

Originally Posted by Dave_e90

Yeah tell me about it. Over 50 codes stored. Idk if I need to clear them and start over. Idk how long they have been on there. This is BimmerLink.

I'm guessing those are stored, otherwise it wouldn't be running, right!!! Or at least go with that presumption!

[Dave_e90]

Originally Posted by dpaul

Bimmerlink doesn't indicate which of those is currently present. Best guess is that most of them are not. Some are obviously not, like system voltage <9. Clear them all, restart the motor, then see which come back.

Originally Posted by StradaRedlands

Yikes!

Originally Posted by dpaul

Bimmerlink doesn't indicate which of those is currently present. Best guess is that most of them are not. Some are obviously not, like system voltage <9. Clear them all, restart the motor, then see which come back.

Okay I will go try it.

[Dave_e90]

Originally Posted by Dave_e90

Okay I will go try it.

Originally Posted by StradaRedlands

Yikes!

Originally Posted by dpaul

Bimmerlink doesn't indicate which of those is currently present. Best guess is that most of them are not. Some are obviously not, like system voltage <9. Clear them all, restart the motor, then see which come back.

Originally Posted by StradaRedlands

I'm guessing those are stored, otherwise it wouldn't be running, right!!! Or at least go with that presumption!

A lot better. Cylinder 6 is where the sound like air is escaping is coming from.

[rt7085]

Originally Posted by Dave_e90

A lot better. Cylinder 6 is where the sound like air is escaping is coming from.

That sound may also be some kind of vacuum leak. Run a smoke test.

[dpaul]

Originally Posted by Dave_e90

A lot better. Cylinder 6 is where the sound like air is escaping is coming from.

You have an interesting mix of problems. Leave aside for the moment the misfire which could have a multitude of explanations and the "sound" which is impossible to diagnose remotely. Upload your vid with sound to youtube.

2e83 (waterpump) and 2e97 (alternator) could be related. Both devices (along with oil condition sensor and IBS) communicate on the BSD (bit serial device) bus where a defect in one device can interfere with communication of another. Although there are no current explicit BSD codes, there were earlier - 2e84 (wp) and 2e8E (IBS) and the correspondance of alternator and wp errors is highly suggestive. Easy enough to explore the alternator issue - get the freeze frame data and see what the system voltage was when the fault was set.. Or for that matter, just measure the system voltage yourself at the jumper terminal with the ignition on but engine off, then with the engine running.

2eDB often follows from an alternator issue signifying low or fluctuating system voltage. However, it could be due to a variety of other causes, most typically the battery or battery contacts. It can also mean an excessive current is being drawn after ignition shut off i.e. fan motor stays on because waterpump isn't up to speed. So you get the idea how interconnected all these things can be? Again, check freeze frame.

2EFE is not the fan code I expect in conjunction with a wp problem - it indicates low voltage at the fan motor which could be a dead motor, bad fuse, bad connector etc. (BTW you cannot test the fan by just putting 12v across it - do not do that). It's not so easy to fit with the other codes but again, easy enough to explore, a) check freeze frame for system voltage at time of fault b) put a DVM on the big heavy wires (red, black) in the fan motor connector with engine running. A real curiousity here is that you don't report any sign of overheating. If your wp was bad OR your fan was bad you would overheat.

All that said, my SWAG, as gbalthrop would say, is that 2A9A is the significant code in terms of your starting issues and possibly this "air escaping" noise (which I suspect has nothing to do with air escaping). The explanation could be camshaft position sensor, a timing chain tensioner issue, a vanos solenoid. Those are cheap enough I'd just replace them all but you could of course explore them sequentially.

Oh yeah, and fill your gas tank.

[Dave_e90]

Originally Posted by dpaul

You have an interesting mix of problems. Leave aside for the moment the misfire which could have a multitude of explanations and the "sound" which is impossible to diagnose remotely. Upload your vid with sound to youtube.

2e83 (waterpump) and 2e97 (alternator) could be related. Both devices (along with oil condition sensor and IBS) communicate on the BSD (bit serial device) bus where a defect in one device can interfere with communication of another. Although there are no current explicit BSD codes, there were earlier - 2e84 (wp) and 2e8E (IBS) and the correspondance of alternator and wp errors is highly suggestive. Easy enough to explore the alternator issue - get the freeze frame data and see what the system voltage was when the fault was set.. Or for that matter, just measure the system voltage yourself at the jumper terminal with the ignition on but engine off, then with the engine running.

2eDB often follows from an alternator issue signifying low or fluctuating system voltage. However, it could be due to a variety of other causes, most typically the battery or battery contacts. It can also mean an excessive current is being drawn after ignition shut off i.e. fan motor stays on because waterpump isn't up to speed. So you get the idea how interconnected all these things can be? Again, check freeze frame.

2EFE is not the fan code I expect in conjunction with a wp problem - it indicates low voltage at the fan motor which could be a dead motor, bad fuse, bad connector etc. (BTW you cannot test the fan by just putting 12v across it - do not do that). It's not so easy to fit with the other codes but again, easy enough to explore, a) check freeze frame for system voltage at time of fault b) put a DVM on the big heavy wires (red, black) in the fan motor connector with engine running. A real curiousity here is that you don't report any sign of overheating. If your wp was bad OR your fan was bad you would overheat.

All that said, my SWAG, as gbalthrop would say, is that 2A9A is the significant code in terms of your starting issues and possibly this "air escaping" noise (which I suspect has nothing to do with air escaping). The explanation could be camshaft position sensor, a timing chain tensioner issue, a vanos solenoid. Those are cheap enough I'd just replace them all but you could of course explore them sequentially.

Oh yeah, and fill your gas tank.

Originally Posted by dpaul

You have an interesting mix of problems. Leave aside for the moment the misfire which could have a multitude of explanations and the "sound" which is impossible to diagnose remotely. Upload your vid with sound to youtube.

2e83 (waterpump) and 2e97 (alternator) could be related. Both devices (along with oil condition sensor and IBS) communicate on the BSD (bit serial device) bus where a defect in one device can interfere with communication of another. Although there are no current explicit BSD codes, there were earlier - 2e84 (wp) and 2e8E (IBS) and the correspondance of alternator and wp errors is highly suggestive. Easy enough to explore the alternator issue - get the freeze frame data and see what the system voltage was when the fault was set.. Or for that matter, just measure the system voltage yourself at the jumper terminal with the ignition on but engine off, then with the engine running.

2eDB often follows from an alternator issue signifying low or fluctuating system voltage. However, it could be due to a variety of other causes, most typically the battery or battery contacts. It can also mean an excessive current is being drawn after ignition shut off i.e. fan motor stays on because waterpump isn't up to speed. So you get the idea how interconnected all these things can be? Again, check freeze frame.

2EFE is not the fan code I expect in conjunction with a wp problem - it indicates low voltage at the fan motor which could be a dead motor, bad fuse, bad connector etc. (BTW you cannot test the fan by just putting 12v across it - do not do that). It's not so easy to fit with the other codes but again, easy enough to explore, a) check freeze frame for system voltage at time of fault b) put a DVM on the big heavy wires (red, black) in the fan motor connector with engine running. A real curiousity here is that you don't report any sign of overheating. If your wp was bad OR your fan was bad you would overheat.

All that said, my SWAG, as gbalthrop would say, is that 2A9A is the significant code in terms of your starting issues and possibly this "air escaping" noise (which I suspect has nothing to do with air escaping). The explanation could be camshaft position sensor, a timing chain tensioner issue, a vanos solenoid. Those are cheap enough I'd just replace them all but you could of course explore them sequentially.

Oh yeah, and fill your gas tank.

The battery is brand new. The one that was in there was dead. I registered the new one via BimmerLink

I think the fan thing is because it's not in the car at the moment because I did the crank seal and haven't put it in because I was gonna do the water pump but may hold off on that because it sounds like that may not be a problem.

I have been reading about the vanos issues related to the code. Also when I clean them to see if that helps I need the o rings right?

Yeah I will get some gas for it today. I don't wanna drive it because of the water pump. I started it yesterday after I re ran the codes and noticed some smoke coming from exhaust and a pop sound under the car when blimp the gas for a second or two. I'm kinda thinking turbos are shot. Not sure though