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      03-09-2011, 11:28 PM   #1
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Machine Wash vs Hand Wash Interesting Study <--LOOK INSIDE

So I bought a monthly pass for my BSM 135i cause i can see dust 2-3 days after i wash it. And this article made me more comfortable that im getting a machine wash instead of hand. anybody disagree?

http://www.starcarwash.com/feature/5...-arlington.htm
January 2, 2007

Research Study Shows That Hand Washing of
Cars at Home is Harmful to Automobile Finishes

The International Carwash Association working through a special Carwash Research Foundation Grant to the University of Texas at Arlington, Texas, has conducted extensive car washing tests this past year to determine the effect on car finishes by comparing various car washing techniques ranging from professional car washing to the bucket and sponge used by many auto owners.

Hand wash jobs are extremely harmful to automobile finishes - Tests conducted by the University of Texas to compare surface disturbances showed that a single home hand wash on an automobile can produce scratches that penetrate as deep as 1/10 of the total thickness of the automobile's paint.

These test findings at the University of Texas substantiated tests done over ten years ago by the Technical University of Munich, Germany, in association with Mercedes-Benz, which at that time showed that similar damage was done to an automobile when using detergent, low water volume commonly found in hose nozzles at home, buckets of water, sponges and towels used in the average home car washing.

Specific scientific tests at the University of Texas further showed that hand car washing can produce so many marks on a car's finish that they cannot even be counted. The tests showed that in all hand washing temperatures, surface reflectance readings steadily declined, with some hand washing techniques being considerably worse than others. By contrast, when cars were washed by professional full service car washes, there was virtually no change in the surface reflectance or shine readings.

The tests showed that the average backyard hose is not able to supply enough water along with the detergent action to avoid damaging the car's finish. The most harmful method of washing cars was found to be the special "car wash" brushes that hook on to a garden hose and are purchased from local hardware stores or automotive supply dealers. The use of this type of brush with the low water pressure that comes out of the garden hose is the most destructive on the finish of an automobile. The tests also showed that techniques used at professional car washes are virtually harmless to automobile finishes. Findings from the University of Texas research study indicate that with the large amounts of water and specialized detergents used in professional car washes, sophisticated gloss and reflectance meter readings from new finishes used on automobiles were virtually the same before and after the equivalent of several months of normal washings in a professional car wash.

The professional car wash is able to provide and use tremendous amounts of water along with specialized detergents and appropriate mechanical action from cloth pads and curtains which the backyard hose and bucket hand car wash is not able to supply. This important and interesting research study performed by the University of Texas found that today's automobile owner is much wiser to have their car washed by a professional car wash, rather than washing it at home in their own backyard.

here's another article from Munich
http://www.starcarwash.com/feature/5...-of-munich.htm
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      03-09-2011, 11:42 PM   #2
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Of course the average simpleton out there washing their cars with an old t-shirt and dish soap is going to do it wrong. If you use a good car wash, microfiber cloth and the proper washing technique you will do a better job than most car washes.
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      03-09-2011, 11:45 PM   #3
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ughhhaaaahh u made me feel bad now. just to lazy to hand wash im in and out of the car wash in 3 min, they towel dry it at the end of the line and clean my wheels and tires. and i wash my car 4-6 times a month
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      03-09-2011, 11:46 PM   #4
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I'd love to hear what everyone has to say about this because just from reading on these forums the past few months I've become scared straight to let anyone but myself or a professional detailer touch my car when it arrives.
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      03-09-2011, 11:46 PM   #5
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^ I stopped reading when they said car wash brush.
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      03-09-2011, 11:48 PM   #6
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my car wash use microfiber as there brush in there machine.
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      03-09-2011, 11:57 PM   #7
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so should i use a pressure washer?
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      03-10-2011, 12:01 AM   #8
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I should be convinced but i'm not. Plus, I don't think I can say goodbye to the car+ me time. It's important to our relationship.
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      03-10-2011, 12:18 AM   #9
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A critical reader would have also immediately noted that the grant for the study was associated with the International Carwash Association (first line, also known as a disclosure). They have an invested interest this study's results.

Keep washing your cars by hand guys...
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      03-10-2011, 01:03 AM   #10
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Go scan the detailing subforum. e90post has one of the best detailing subforums you can find.

The reason scratches or swirls occur from a hand wash is due to improper technique. Some of the most basic equipment you need is 2 wash mitts, bucket for soap, rinse bucket w/ grit guard, microfiber towels for drying, and good technique.

After every application of soap, rub your wash mitt onto the grit guard in your rinse bucket to dislodge dirt. Otherwise the dirt will contaminate your soap bucket, and will stay on your wash mitt. This dirt when rubbed onto paint (even w/ soap) will cause swirls or scratches.

The 2nd wash mitt is for the dirtier parts of the car, such as the side rocker panels, wheel wells, bottom of the front rear bumper, etc (lower portions of the car). This is because the lower portions of the car are dirtier and if you use a single wash mitt, you may pick up more contaminants that will rub into other parts of the paint.

Lastly, do not use excessive force when applying soap. Any contaminants in your wash mitt will rub into the paint, resulting in swirls.

Very Important: Never use these wash mitts on your wheels! Have one dedicated for wheels. Should be obvious why if you've kept up.

Drying technique is just as important. Microfiber towels are important to minimize swirls. Ever try to remove bird droppings with kleenex and water? If you did, chances are you just swirled (lightly scratched) your car.

That's a quick overview, but once again, go read the detailing section here. Gosh, for a detailing enthusiast, that article is accurate but junk. It's accurate because if you don't know how to hand wash, what they state is true. But if you follow proper techniques, it is much safer than going to a car wash. It's been a year and a half since I last polished my car (to remove swirls), but my car is still pretty swirl free.
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Last edited by orionredwing; 03-10-2011 at 01:17 AM..
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      03-10-2011, 01:04 AM   #11
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Correctly washing your car by hand with the right products (soaps), 2 bucket method, grit guard, correct wash mitt, and high quality waffle weave micro fiber towels is in NO WAY more harsh then an automatic car wash.

Period.

Problem with the study is they are bunch of ignorant people that dont know the first thing about correctly washing cars by hand.

This is simply a marketing tactic to get people to go to car washes cause of all the bad rep.
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      03-10-2011, 01:08 AM   #12
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The study sounds too one sided. I like to wash, dry, and detail my own car at home because I know what products are being used and what they are being used on. Not to mention it's good exercise, but to each his own and I understand not everyone has the time.

In my opinion, the ideal way to wash and dry your car (at home) would be to do something like this:
- Use a microfiber wash mit
- Sud's up with Meguiar's Gold Class Shampoo (or a similar gentle car wash shampoo)
- Dry with microfiber or terry cloth drying towels

The problem most of us face is that we use are forced to use the water out of the garden hose, and as you know the water out of the hose is "hard water" which is full of minerals (which if not fully dried make hard water spots). Ideally, we should do like a lot of the best car detailers and use a deionized water source, however this is simply not realistic.

Whatever you choose to do, atleast your taking the time to give some thought to the subject, I bet your own car is clean too!
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      03-10-2011, 01:09 AM   #13
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^ I'm with you on that. Studies like that are hardly independent. They can test a sample that's totally not representative or analyze the data the way they find helpful for their cause.

"The only statistics you can trust are those you falsified yourself" Winston Churchill
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      03-10-2011, 01:16 AM   #14
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ok after reading i believe hand wash is better if done right, but still to lazy to do it. machine with micro fiber brushes and lots of water wont do?
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      03-10-2011, 07:10 AM   #15
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OP, Great News...

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      03-10-2011, 07:16 AM   #16
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I will never take my car to one of those car washes where at the end they have a bunch of kids with towels. I used to work part-time security at one of those car washes and just watching what those kids did with those towels in between cars was enough to say never.

i will do it myself. i buy my stuff from www.detailedimage.com
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      03-10-2011, 07:27 AM   #17
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OP: I worked in the car wash industry for many years (family business) and I can say that there are LOTS of very good car washes out there who rely on providing a safe cleaning for your car. Is it the same as someone spending 2 hours DETAILING ever crevice of your car? No. It's not trying to be. But they do a great job of providing a safe way to clean, dry, and protect your car if you don't want to spend the time.

There have been a series of studies done over the years (my dad had it posted in his wash for decades - I didn't see this one for 2007 though) and that, along with my experience, is that the vast majority of driveway car washers do more damage than good, but don't recognize it until they take it through a car wash.

If there is a car wash near you, go and talk to the crew there. The owner and manager should enjoy discussing their wash, the products and their techniques with you. If they don't, find one that does.

And I NEVER let anyone take a towel to my car. I'd prefer to drive off the lot with a wet car.
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      03-10-2011, 07:29 AM   #18
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Just image how bad the average person is at washing their car, and realize that half are even worse.
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      03-10-2011, 07:31 AM   #19
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one point not brought up is... waxing...

if you have a good layer or multiple layers of wax this will be a buffer from scratches.

ppp
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      03-10-2011, 08:00 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djpeetur View Post
So I bought a monthly pass for my BSM 135i cause i can see dust 2-3 days after i wash it. And this article made me more comfortable that im getting a machine wash instead of hand. anybody disagree?

http://www.starcarwash.com/feature/5...-arlington.htm
January 2, 2007

Research Study Shows That Hand Washing of
Cars at Home is Harmful to Automobile Finishes

The International Carwash Association working through a special Carwash Research Foundation Grant to the University of Texas at Arlington, Texas, has conducted extensive car washing tests this past year to determine the effect on car finishes by comparing various car washing techniques ranging from professional car washing to the bucket and sponge used by many auto owners.

Hand wash jobs are extremely harmful to automobile finishes - Tests conducted by the University of Texas to compare surface disturbances showed that a single home hand wash on an automobile can produce scratches that penetrate as deep as 1/10 of the total thickness of the automobile's paint.

These test findings at the University of Texas substantiated tests done over ten years ago by the Technical University of Munich, Germany, in association with Mercedes-Benz, which at that time showed that similar damage was done to an automobile when using detergent, low water volume commonly found in hose nozzles at home, buckets of water, sponges and towels used in the average home car washing.

Specific scientific tests at the University of Texas further showed that hand car washing can produce so many marks on a car's finish that they cannot even be counted. The tests showed that in all hand washing temperatures, surface reflectance readings steadily declined, with some hand washing techniques being considerably worse than others. By contrast, when cars were washed by professional full service car washes, there was virtually no change in the surface reflectance or shine readings.

The tests showed that the average backyard hose is not able to supply enough water along with the detergent action to avoid damaging the car's finish. The most harmful method of washing cars was found to be the special "car wash" brushes that hook on to a garden hose and are purchased from local hardware stores or automotive supply dealers. The use of this type of brush with the low water pressure that comes out of the garden hose is the most destructive on the finish of an automobile. The tests also showed that techniques used at professional car washes are virtually harmless to automobile finishes. Findings from the University of Texas research study indicate that with the large amounts of water and specialized detergents used in professional car washes, sophisticated gloss and reflectance meter readings from new finishes used on automobiles were virtually the same before and after the equivalent of several months of normal washings in a professional car wash.

The professional car wash is able to provide and use tremendous amounts of water along with specialized detergents and appropriate mechanical action from cloth pads and curtains which the backyard hose and bucket hand car wash is not able to supply. This important and interesting research study performed by the University of Texas found that today's automobile owner is much wiser to have their car washed by a professional car wash, rather than washing it at home in their own backyard.

here's another article from Munich
http://www.starcarwash.com/feature/5...-of-munich.htm
Possible bias?
Quote:
Originally Posted by djpeetur View Post
ughhhaaaahh u made me feel bad now. just to lazy to hand wash im in and out of the car wash in 3 min, they towel dry it at the end of the line and clean my wheels and tires. and i wash my car 4-6 times a month
If you watch them towel dry it you will see they usually have a towel in each hand and cover the entire car top to bottom and bottom to top. Those washes dont reach everywhere but those towels do and they catch the dirt from the bottom and drag (scratch) it to the top. Watch them do wheels then continue to dry hood. Watch next time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djpeetur View Post
my car wash use microfiber as there brush in there machine.
That will still catch and hold dirt from the first car of the day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStigsTwin View Post
I should be convinced but i'm not. Plus, I don't think I can say goodbye to the car+ me time. It's important to our relationship.
I heard THAT! I love that time too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jocamryn View Post
OP, Great News...

AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
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      03-10-2011, 08:02 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jocamryn View Post
OP, Great News...

I think everyone everywhere would agree that the key to a safe wash is light contact with the paint. I dont think this wash above is making light contact.
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      03-10-2011, 10:03 AM   #22
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Yeah I'm going believe a link that begins with the word car wash in it and its being sponsored by the Carwash Ass. Handwash at the local carwash. /end
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