[335BBS]

Originally Posted by Cgmiller63

I hope this gets resolved and the OP prevails.

After hearing about how BMWNA is trying to cover up, my next vehicle will not be a BMW. Which really sucks because I do enjoy driving my vehicle. I just don't enjoy worrying about BMW trying to dodge responsibility if something goes wrong.

It has been resolved. Car is fixed and it doesn't appear to be a recurring problem. You're pretty naïve to think this hasn't happened with every manufacturer at some point. Most situations prove top be owner/operator error....Audi, Toyota floor mats etc.
I couldn't care any less where you buy your next car but BMW will survive without you. They have sold 11 million 3 series and will continue to sell like crazy.

[MDyDinanM]

Originally Posted by Leaker

It has been resolved. Car is fixed and it doesn't appear to be a recurring problem. You're pretty naïve to think this hasn't happened with every manufacturer at some point. Most situations prove top be owner/operator error....Audi, Toyota floor mats etc.
I couldn't care any less where you buy your next car but BMW will survive without you. They have sold 11 million 3 series and will continue to sell like crazy.

this situation was a SZL issue which doesn't appear to be attributed to owner/operator error. While the situation may be resolved in the terms that the car was fixed by another dealer, what remains unresolved is the loss in steering question and the manner in which the original dealer was treating the customer. Perhaps they went their separate ways and that will be the end of it. But with the 44,500+ views in this post, those viewers now know how a certain dealer has acted. Will it have an effect with the dealer? Only time will tell. Will BMW continue to sell millions of cars? Absolutely.

[TheStigsTwin]

Originally Posted by mdyaman

this situation was a SZL issue which doesn't appear to be attributed to owner/operator error. While the situation may be resolved in the terms that the car was fixed by another dealer, what remains unresolved is the loss in steering question and the manner in which the original dealer was treating the customer. Perhaps they went their separate ways and that will be the end of it. But with the 44,500+ views in this post, those viewers now know how a certain dealer has acted. Will it have an effect with the dealer? Only time will tell. Will BMW continue to sell millions of cars? Absolutely.

Yeah, look, I don't think we (at least most of us) expect our cars to be perfect. The real issue here is how the dealership and BMWNA reacted to the problem. If there's an issue, don't try and sweep it under the rug and push the customer out the door. Just fix it professionally and quickly and everyone moves on. I don't need somebody kissing my butt because I have a nice car. As many have noted, it's not THAT nice of a car. I just want issues dealt with professionally. Based on the information I have in this case, that was not done at all.

[MDyDinanM]

Originally Posted by TheStigsTwin

Yeah, look, I don't think we (at least most of us) expect our cars to be perfect. The real issue here is how the dealership and BMWNA reacted to the problem. If there's an issue, don't try and sweep it under the rug and push the customer out the door. Just fix it professionally and quickly and everyone moves on. I don't need somebody kissing my butt because I have a nice car. As many have noted, it's not THAT nice of a car. I just want issues dealt with professionally. Based on the information I have in this case, that was not done at all.

+1

well said

[Wilhelm]

Originally Posted by TheStigsTwin

Yeah, look, I don't think we (at least most of us) expect our cars to be perfect. The real issue here is how the dealership and BMWNA reacted to the problem. . . . . Based on the information I have in this case, that was not done at all.

+1

[taibanl]

Originally Posted by TheStigsTwin

Yeah, look, I don't think we (at least most of us) expect our cars to be perfect. The real issue here is how the dealership and BMWNA reacted to the problem. If there's an issue, don't try and sweep it under the rug and push the customer out the door. Just fix it professionally and quickly and everyone moves on. I don't need somebody kissing my butt because I have a nice car. As many have noted, it's not THAT nice of a car. I just want issues dealt with professionally. Based on the information I have in this case, that was not done at all.

Originally Posted by mdyaman

+1

well said

+2

BMW NA...I hope you are listening. At some point your sales will suffer. Customer service from this company DOES NOT match with the general quality of the car.

[Sal47]

Wow. I seriously just sat here and read through ALL 24 of the pages in this post all your past posts and the jalopnik story. This sucks for you and I hope you win. This sucks for BMW because this will not end well for them. I'm actually really considering trading my BMW in for anther car but it sucks cause I love my BMW. But this is absolutely unacceptable and if it were me I would not stand for it either. Best of luck and I hope this ends well for you

[apme123]

My opinion is that a BMW tech is not paid enough for warranty work. It is entirely possible the tech just didn't give a flying crap about the original poster's steering problem and just sent him on his way not giving a crap cause warranty work pays $10 per hour, while an out of warranty repair pays $35 or more. It's the same way with entire service department, BMW pays around $45 per hour to the dealer themselves. The dealer service departments will claim that stuff is not covered when it in fact is. They will automatically tell you that your car is out of warranty that it needs at least $3500 dollars in repairs. Look at what the dealer charges a retail customer per hour, its at least $100 to $125. Plus they tell you a sparkplug change is a $3.5 hour job by their book and charge $50 bucks a plug.

[MDyDinanM]

Originally Posted by apme123

My opinion is that a BMW tech is not paid enough for warranty work. It is entirely possible the tech just didn't give a flying crap about the original poster's steering problem and just sent him on his way not giving a crap cause warranty work pays $10 per hour, while an out of warranty repair pays $35 or more. It's the same way with entire service department, BMW pays around $45 per hour to the dealer themselves. The dealer service departments will claim that stuff is not covered when it in fact is. They will automatically tell you that your car is out of warranty that it needs at least $3500 dollars in repairs. Look at what the dealer charges a retail customer per hour, its at least $100 to $125. Plus they tell you a sparkplug change is a $3.5 hour job by their book and charge $50 bucks a plug.

you have a point, but that logic pretty much would mean all BMW mechanics would have no incentive to work at a BMW dealer, especially since most of the cars going in for service are for warranty related work b/c they are newer cars. The majority of owners take their cars to the dealer for service since they have the 4yr/50K mile car and maintenance warranty. They are not going to pay out of pocket when something is free.

Those that know better, take it to an indy for out of warranty repairs/maintenance, or do it themselves.

My understanding is that a tech has the incentive to get more money by working on more than one car at a time. For example, doing an oil change one, and while waiting for the oil to drain, work on another at the same time.

[apme123]

Originally Posted by mdyaman

you have a point, but that logic pretty much would mean all BMW mechanics would have no incentive to work at a BMW dealer, especially since most of the cars going in for service are for warranty related work b/c they are newer cars. The majority of owners take their cars to the dealer for service since they have the 4yr/50K mile car and maintenance warranty. They are not going to pay out of pocket when something is free.

Those that know better, take it to an indy for out of warranty repairs/maintenance, or do it themselves.

My understanding is that techs can get more money if they work on more than one car at a time. For example, doing an oil change one, and while waiting for the oil to drain, work on another at the same time.

It comes down to greed, that's all. Techs don't get paid enough for warranty repairs. How about CPO cars, when a customer comes in with a CPO BMW, they try to say certain stuff is not covered, while some stuff certainly is covered. I have seen it with my own eyes. Some people have had to pay out of pocket for waterpumps and etc.. while under cpo for example. They would like a majority of their work to come from our of warranty vehicle repairs.

[MDyDinanM]

Originally Posted by apme123

It comes down to greed, that's all. Techs don't get paid enough for warranty repairs.

well the whole point in running a business is to make profit, etc. It's the way the go about doing it. The most successful businesses ensure they take care of their customer, which obviously didn't happen here. Not all dealers are bad. I've had dealers and their service centers go out of their way for me.

I know some really good BMW techs at Dealer, good guys too. Yes, they want to earn a decent income, but for the most part they enjoy what they do, that is working on cars.

[OregonMTB]

Did they tell you what was actually repaired??? I stumbled across this thread a few weeks ago. I do not own an E90--but I have had a handful of E38s, E46s, E34s, and E36s. Toss in 2 Z3's and 3 X5's I am a certifiable BMW guy.

Completely coincidentally I was picking up one of my cars at the local Indy and the tech shared a story (without me mentioning this post), about a certain E90 at the dealer he formally worked at. It was at the dealer for 9 months while BMWNA tried to figure out why the car would suddenly jerk to the right at highway speeds. After $30,000 worth of work on the car with no luck in fixing the problem (the only work done was what was directed by BMWNA), the steering angle sensor was finally replaced and the problem was fixed.

To me that sounds like someone knows about a problem that is a whole lot worse than Firestone tires on Ford Explorers.

I think I will stick with my 12 cylinders and 19 mpg!

[MDyDinanM]

Originally Posted by OregonMTB

Did they tell you what was actually repaired??? I stumbled across this thread a few weeks ago. I do not own an E90--but I have had a handful of E38s, E46s, E34s, and E36s. Toss in 2 Z3's and 3 X5's I am a certifiable BMW guy.

Completely coincidentally I was picking up one of my cars at the local Indy and the tech shared a story (without me mentioning this post), about a certain E90 at the dealer he formally worked at. It was at the dealer for 9 months while BMWNA tried to figure out why the car would suddenly jerk to the right at highway speeds. After $30,000 worth of work on the car with no luck in fixing the problem (the only work done was what was directed by BMWNA), the steering angle sensor was finally replaced and the problem was fixed.

To me that sounds like someone knows about a problem that is a whole lot worse than Firestone tires on Ford Explorers.

I think I will stick with my 12 cylinders and 19 mpg!

did you read post #494 on page 23?

Steering angle sensor (SZL)

[OregonMTB]

Originally Posted by mdyaman

did you read post #494 on page 23?

Steering angle sensor (SZL)

I did--I am just saying I know of a car that the exact same problem that kept recurring and did not go away until the steering angle sensor was replaced. Logic tells me it was the steering angle sensor. This is completely regardless of what any fault codes may be reading. The steering angle sensor could be bad and yet not trip any codes. Computers are only as good as the programmer and the user.

[JTILAK07]

I don't know if your problem was resolved or not. and i did not read all 25 pages of this thread but if I were you and the GM of the company alongside the lawyer is taking sides against you, I would contact the BBB and BMW Consumer affairs. Had to do that quite a few times for diff dealers(hyundai, kia, nissan & vw) for they were not working with me on the situation. after bbb and consumer affairs was contacted all work on vehicles were done for free with out a single word from anyone at dealer.

[apme123]

So this thread is still alive>?? when is it gonna die?

[dmatre]

Interesting...
While neither of these guys suffered loss of control, there are similarities.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=633521
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=597602

[Jgcdude1]

Holy cow! Took an entire day of reading, but finally caught up! Arguru best of luck dude I can't imagine how stressful this all has been. I can understand how you have been turned off by BMW in general. Don't give up just yet, keep it going. Good luck and we're all behind you.

This drink is for you,

Cheers!

[Nalod]

Like watching a hyped up movie only to realize it gone amuck!

The ending sucked.

Looks like the OP went to far and realized there was no where to go.

No money, No lemonization, no buyback of conspiracy tainted danger car and no penske love.

Sounds like a lawyer got to smack him down and get real.

Car got fixed and I suppose all is happy.

In the end, no fireball ending and no class action heroics.

Maybe its for the best.

[GMonkey]

damn, that is a crappy service experience. Glad you safe. and the car is safer.

(I have never worked for either company, nor live in AZ)

As for the system is only as good as the information that it gets from the sensors. IF by chance that data received data that was within specified parameters, the system would continue to operate until it detected that the response was invalid. which could cause the car to act in a way other than intended.

How do i know this you might ask. I work on a domestic premium car brand and have had a few customers come in complaining of the tracontrol contol system flashing at them while driving in a straight line on dry pavement. no code stored intermittent issue. The customer could not duplicate the concern on any test drive. But after several test drives alone trying to trace any cause, and no sensor faults, I duplicated it and found the steering angle sensor telling the traction module the wrong information for an extremely small time window (to fast for the scan tool to read).

back to the thread topic.

Is it possible that a incorrect, but valid piece(s) of data was transmitted to the traction/steering system: yes
Was the fault in the steering systems or sub systems: possible
could the fault be in another system the gives data to the traction/stering system: possible
Could the resulting fault cause the steering to effect the steering system: i don't know (don't have working understanding of the system) but my guess is possible

the likely hood of duplicating the concern with out atleast some driving conditions and paramters from which to start with: difficult at best ecpecally it it was not easy for you to duplicate.

(as to why im so vague to where i work my company does not like their name being published with out the ownes concent. but we sold the most of our car brand than any other dealer of our brand in the US.)

now that i have said my bit i hope i may help, but if not you can just dismiss it a idiotic rambling (no offence will be taken).

[arguru]

Originally Posted by Bargamon

Like watching a hyped up movie only to realize it gone amuck!

The ending sucked.

Looks like the OP went to far and realized there was no where to go.

No money, No lemonization, no buyback of conspiracy tainted danger car and no love.

Sounds like a lawyer got to smack him down and get real.

Car got fixed and I suppose all is happy.

In the end, no fireball ending and no class action heroics.

Maybe its for the best.

You want action? Go watch Transformers. I don't think you're gonna get what you're looking for from this.

[SantaMonica335i]

I still have a hard time believing that a mechanically linked steering system gets disabled due to an electronic or other system problem. I can see power steering going out but that would only make steering harder. Are our cars fly by wire and i'm not aware?