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      05-11-2017, 03:16 PM   #1
e93335i
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Match PP82DSP Loom Question Challenge on E93 Base Stereo

I have spent many days 'researching' this forum, other forums and using google and I haven't found the answer to my questions...
I have a US 2010 E93 with Base Stereo (no Tweeters or Amp). I'm adding a PP82DSP and have a question on the loom wiring and speaker connections.

- Since I have a base stereo i assume i only have 4 channels of high level output from the HU (Front Left + Right and Rear Left + Right) and therefore only 4 pairs of speaker wires in the loom?

- If that's the case... how do I determine which inputs channels correspond with which output channels in the included match loom?

- How do I separate the mid (door) and subwoofer (under seat) connections which are currently on same input channel and connected in parallel in the loom wiring?

- The under seat woofer and door mid are connected in parallel in the base stereo setup correct?

- Do I have a wire in the match loom for a remote on connection? or do I need to get additional wiring and cable tie one with it?

Since the PP82DSP has the flexibility to fully control every channel the goal is one of following two options:

PP82DSP Option 1:
- 4ch input from HU
- 6 ch output: Ch. 1/2 = Front Tweet L/R, Ch. 3/4 = Front Mid L/R, Ch. 5/6 Under seat subwoofers (bridged? paralleled?)

PP82DSP Option 2:
- 4ch input from HU
- 4 ch output: Ch. 1/2 = Front Mid & Tweet L/R (crossover) Ch. 3/4 = Under seat subwoofers (bridged? paralleled?)

Am I missing something with the match loom and car speaker loom - but I think I will need some loom surgery and some extra wiring to chive the options outlined above... correct?

Any help really appreciated
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      05-11-2017, 11:15 PM   #2
ctuna
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Most people will buy a Technic Harness for the base system
to do this or its recommended anyway.
On your car the parallel connection is made at the under seat
speaker connection . Part of Technic Kits is a jumper that re routes
and separates the underseats and door speakers to the rear and reroutes the head unit front set to the back for use in the amp or in your case the 82dsp. You have 8 channels to play with so you might want to go active on the
front doors with and aftermarket component set.
You will have to run another set of wires to the doors though.
And you should get better under seats to.

BMW stereo types
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=352586
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...2&d=1266451970
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...2&d=1260829447
http://www.bmwmotorsports.org/pdf/e7...%20Systems.pdf
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343673
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138949
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1209780605
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1209780865
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641323
http://bmwcoders.com/forum/3-er-8/bm...1-e92-e93-291/
http://technicpnp.com/menuDiagrams/d...e90_92_93.html
http://www.musicarnw.com/page-2/
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...3&d=1169133185
http://www.bmwmotorsports.org/BMW_docs/mostbus.pdf
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...4&d=1278871872

I have no idea how the match harness is setup Bimmertech makes a retrofit kit that uses the 82dsp and includes a harness and tune.

Last edited by ctuna; 05-14-2017 at 01:09 PM..
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      05-12-2017, 10:27 AM   #3
e93335i
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Thanks ctuna - as always quick on the draw and always there to help!

I thought I may need an extra door speaker wire to go fully active - would it make that much difference over using a passive crossover mounted in the door?

Yes, I will indeed upgrade the under seat 6.5" OEM speakers - (SWS-8X or Match 8... not sure which is best)

Hmmm... I'm not sure how to combine a Technic harness and the Match DSP harness... The Match one has a specific connector that fits the system connector on the DSP itself... which has input and output connections for the harness...

Anyway - Thanks again for your help

P.S. You must get tired of posting the same kind of messages and links to us newbies...

Last edited by e93335i; 05-12-2017 at 10:52 AM..
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      05-12-2017, 12:26 PM   #4
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The question on the 82dsp pinout came up here before and as
I remember there manual is not complete in this respect there was
a thread on here somewhere where 6sdcoupe answered this question of pinnout.

I suggest the Jehnerts xe 200 as the best quality underseats for full
range midbass and not to weak on the bass either.

This is what I do when I am bored and the surfs not up. But the trying to tell people what is possible and not possible is sometimes hard and my knowledge is not as complete as I would like it to be either.
You must be English to call the harness a Loom.
82dsp pinnout thread follows.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1187023

found it.

I have never gone active but if I had the extra channels I would be tempted to use it.
Not easy to run the wires but it would allow more
total power to the doors on top of the extra control.

Last edited by ctuna; 05-12-2017 at 12:57 PM..
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      05-13-2017, 04:48 AM   #5
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Hi,

I just replaced a HiFi system with a PP86 and spliced the Technix cable with the cable from the PP86E.

you can trace the cable through the PP harness and keeping your head calm it is easy to find out where to cut and what to splice together.

it works fine, but you must increase the general input sensitivity of the amplifier to get the best result (in the DSP tool).



Underseat can be upgraded to both suggested - if you plan a trunk woofer use the Match, if no trunk woofer is planned use the SWS.

Sound from a passive xover in the doors can be tuned to very good level, so with the lesser effort in install this is a good direction.



Our final choice for this car was the Match front system, HK underseat woofers, OEM rear speakers and a Match 10 PP woofer in a custom enclosure.

I'm still tuning, but result is already superior to our naighbours HK system (far far better actually..).

:-)
// Chris




Quote:
Originally Posted by e93335i View Post
Thanks ctuna - as always quick on the draw and always there to help!

I thought I may need an extra door speaker wire to go fully active - would it make that much difference over using a passive crossover mounted in the door?

Yes, I will indeed upgrade the under seat 6.5" OEM speakers - (SWS-8X or Match 8... not sure which is best)

Hmmm... I'm not sure how to combine a Technic harness and the Match DSP harness... The Match one has a specific connector that fits the system connector on the DSP itself... which has input and output connections for the harness...

Anyway - Thanks again for your help

P.S. You must get tired of posting the same kind of messages and links to us newbies...
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      05-13-2017, 05:22 AM   #6
ctuna
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Question for BMW3DK
Are the cables out of the match system connector for the PP86dsp labeled?(not labeled on unit as is 82 dsp)
Where does the extra DSP only channel come from on the PP86dsp
I would assume the mono out RCA.
Just as a note my Hi Fi under seats would produce bass with the Jl 600/6 I put in but it was quite muddy and not very defined compared to the Jehnert xe 200s no dsp though .

Last edited by ctuna; 05-13-2017 at 05:30 AM..
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      05-14-2017, 08:52 AM   #7
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hi,
Are the cables out of the match system connector for the PP86dsp labeled?(not labeled on unit as is 82 dsp)
-> no info on the amplifier or in the manual, but all cables are marked with text *RF + & RF -*. Then it is just a matter of looking at the manual to see what is in/out and the rest will make sense once you look at it.

Where does the extra DSP only channel come from on the PP86dsp
I would assume the mono out RCA.
-> yes.

Just as a note my Hi Fi under seats would produce bass with the Jl 600/6 I put in but it was quite muddy and not very defined compared to the Jehnert xe 200s no dsp though
-> The DSP help a bit on the HiFi woofers, but you must go to HK/logic7 before you get a good unit, and again, it can perform ok without DSP, but an amplifier with DSP can really get the best from them.


And - remember, there is no need for the PP82/86 if you intend to play with the front/rear & USW units only, then a PP62 does 97% of the job in a smaller house with a lower pricetag!
And if you anyway want a sub you can do it from pre-out on the PP62

//Chris




Quote:
Originally Posted by ctuna View Post
Question for BMW3DK
Are the cables out of the match system connector for the PP86dsp labeled?(not labeled on unit as is 82 dsp)
Where does the extra DSP only channel come from on the PP86dsp
I would assume the mono out RCA.
Just as a note my Hi Fi under seats would produce bass with the Jl 600/6 I put in but it was quite muddy and not very defined compared to the Jehnert xe 200s no dsp though .
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      05-14-2017, 11:39 AM   #8
ctuna
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Kind of bothers me they label the channels on the other connector
e through f but the channels on the main connector are labeled
FR FL RR RL how do they relate to A to D which I believe is what the
software uses. So how do they map and correlate when you define channels
in your turn or am I wrong about this?

And thanks for responding.

Last edited by ctuna; 05-14-2017 at 01:11 PM..
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      05-15-2017, 09:28 PM   #9
e93335i
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Thanks ctuna and BMW3DK!!

Thanks for the pointers and the help!
Good catch - yes I'm English living in California - loom
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      05-15-2017, 11:11 PM   #10
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Tell us how it goes
cheers.
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      05-16-2017, 08:33 AM   #11
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Outputs are the ones closest to the (unused) power/ground on the harness. Inputs are the opposing ones. EIA colors are followed so the labeling on the wires is accurate. They also correlate to channels 1-4/A-D which would typically be Front/Rear when used with a Match Plug&Play harness.

All channels though can be assigned and mapped accordingly via the IO when needed.
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      05-16-2017, 03:13 PM   #12
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Does Helix actually make and adapter to plug into the
Hi Fi Amp Connector or Base system (radio) or do you have to
Modify the Technic Harness or Hack the Base Systems Speaker
connections.
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      05-16-2017, 03:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctuna View Post
Does Helix actually make and adapter to plug into the
Hi Fi Amp Connector or Base system (radio) or do you have to
Modify the Technic Harness or Hack the Base Systems Speaker
connections.
Just from the headunit last I checked.
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      05-17-2017, 01:59 PM   #14
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No - Audiotec Fischer made a deal with Bimmertech so they are the only one to offer this.
Also the bimmertech version are different in the input stage (no attenuation for speaker signal damping).

anyway - I have connectors and pins, so I can make a kit for my E93 instead of splicing as for the E87

in the manual to the PP8x there are information about the cables & connectors that enable you to create own adaptors.
Rest is creativity and intuition :-)

// Chris


Quote:
Originally Posted by ctuna View Post
Does Helix actually make and adapter to plug into the
Hi Fi Amp Connector or Base system (radio) or do you have to
Modify the Technic Harness or Hack the Base Systems Speaker
connections.
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      07-04-2018, 06:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW3DK View Post
No - Audiotec Fischer made a deal with Bimmertech so they are the only one to offer this.
Also the bimmertech version are different in the input stage (no attenuation for speaker signal damping).

anyway - I have connectors and pins, so I can make a kit for my E93 instead of splicing as for the E87

in the manual to the PP8x there are information about the cables & connectors that enable you to create own adaptors.
Rest is creativity and intuition :-)

// Chris
Thinking about getting one of these amps but I don't want to purchase if I have to remove pins. I would like to keep everything plug and play. Is there anyplace to purchase the cable/adapter needed going from the head unit to the amp?
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      07-04-2018, 08:45 PM   #16
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If you buy it from Bimmertech it's as close to plug and play as you
will get. Talk to them about the details.
They have a harness for the base system .
If you have Hi Fi its easier as there are already wires to and
from the trunk.

Last edited by ctuna; 07-05-2018 at 05:37 AM..
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      07-04-2018, 11:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctuna View Post
If you buy it from Bimmertech ii's as close to plug and play as you
will get. Talk to them about the details.
They have a harness for the base system .
If you have Hi Fi its easier as there are already wires to and
from the trunk.
@ctuna

Thanks. I've been reaching out to a few members who make the harness. I'm going to try that route as well. I really don't want to re-pin or splice anything
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      07-05-2018, 05:36 AM   #18
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Bimmertech makes a whole kit with a harness for the base system.
At least for the 3 series.

Also 6spdcoupe has a shop and could offer you a kit.

Unexpected Creations is his shop.

Last edited by ctuna; 07-05-2018 at 05:43 AM..
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      07-05-2018, 06:01 AM   #19
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bimmertech amp with harness for stereo cost (1055USD) more that harman kardon from junkyard
it is even possible to install individual audio for e93 for that money
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      07-05-2018, 12:53 PM   #20
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Yes it costs more and you have to add new speakers to make
it really fly but the result is a much more like and audiophile
system.
And probably a lot less work.

Last edited by ctuna; 07-05-2018 at 04:09 PM..
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      07-05-2018, 03:30 PM   #21
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with base audio and pp82dsp you'll need to bring four channels to trunk, get local power and route at least 6 channels back
oh, i forgot about speakers
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      07-05-2018, 07:50 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptpending View Post
with base audio and pp82dsp you'll need to bring four channels to trunk, get local power and route at least 6 channels back
oh, i forgot about speakers
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptpending View Post
with base audio and pp82dsp you'll need to bring four channels to trunk, get local power and route at least 6 channels back
oh, i forgot about speakers
Is that needed? I was just hoping to give more power to my front and rear speakers (upgraded to OEM Logic 7) and my subs. (upgraded to HiFi) Maybe clean up the sound a bit. Didn't want to go to crazy but if I need to run lines back to the trunk for that, I'll probably pass on the amp.
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