How to get more bass with Base?

moz335d · 03-21-2022, 11:20 PM

Like many, I'm sure we all ask why the heck a 50k car would even be offered with 4 measly speakers and 2 woofs.

I don't hate the audio quality, but it definitely could be a little more clear, one thing I don't like is the lack of bass (not the fish).

Looking at harnesses, retrofitting amps and all kinds of crazy stuff seems to be overkill compared to the drop in upgrades offered by Bavsound, vibe, etc.

Is there any way to run a typical sub and amp setup with the base audio? By either bypassing the underseat woofers or somehow sharing the signal to the amp?

(There's just something about watching your interior crumble to pieces and unintentionally finding anything loose lol)

Any help / advice would be appreciated.

ctuna · 03-22-2022, 02:36 AM

When you go shopping do you buy the first thing on the shelf
just because it's the first thing you see?

None of BMW's common sound systems are that good.
Even the amps are at 10 percent distortion at the published power.

At one time Bavsound was the only thing offered .
Now not so much.
Bavsound promised there own OEM amplifier for a long time
but I don't think they ever delivered it .
The amp they now offer is a re badged Helix Audio tech fisher BMW 7.

They don't publish the speaker specs is one of the beefs I have

Attaching a Big Sub and Amp to a Base system = A bad Base system with Big Bass
but maybe that is what you want.

moz335d · 03-22-2022, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctuna

When you go shopping do you buy the first thing on the shelf
just because it's the first thing you see?

None of BMW's common sound systems are that good.
Even the amps are at 10 percent distortion at the published power.

At one time Bavsound was the only thing offered .
Now not so much.
Bavsound promised there own OEM amplifier for a long time
but I don't think they ever delivered it .
The amp they now offer is a re badged Helix Audio tech fisher BMW 7.

They don't publish the speaker specs is one of the beefs I have

Attaching a Big Sub and Amp to a Base system = A bad Base system with Big Bass
but maybe that is what you want.

Not sure where that came from, I haven't bought anything, I have a nice kenwood amp and 12" sub setup sitting in my garage collecting dust.

I just noted those companies as reference, didn't sign up for a rant lol.

My question was and is can you do away with the underseat woofers and run a normal, universal amp and sub setup in the trunk, if so how?

Obviously you cant tie into the rear speakers for the signal, so surely you would need to use the underseat woofer wiring to provide the signal, right?

As far as speaker upgrades go, yes it needs it, but imo I would rather wait and invest in some of the more technical upgrades / retrofits that could be done.

Which leads to my other question, what is the BEST way to upgrade base audio system? Retrofit to another system + upgrade speakers and amp / harness and amp setup? Drop in solution from Bavsound, Vibe, bimmertech, etc for base?

(For reference, looking at the audio table of content sticky and these two in particular)

https://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=505654

and https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...30&postcount=6

Big bass is definitely nice to have, just curious if its worth the effort instead doing a quality underseat sub replacement from someone else. (Like many have done)

ctuna · 03-23-2022, 01:25 AM

moz335d · 03-23-2022, 12:54 PM

I agree, I got in touch with both musicar and some local shops here, and they basically all said the same thing, the only way to get better quality is to ditch the stereo, install door tweeters, speakers, amps and all.

Most of those links in the sticky are dead btw.

I am going to close this thread, after talking to one of the guys, we bounced around the idea of a parallel system.

The idea is to put together a system in the trunk that uses a 4 channel amp with outputs for the sub amp, run new wires to the rear deck and door speakers, add tweeters at the same time as replacing the speakers with better sounding ones.

Since the Avin unit doesn't really do that well with audio quality, instead I would opt for running a Dragonfly DAC with a lightning cable poking out under the center console where I normally put my phone.

This would then go to a RCA patch cable back to the 4 channel amp, and be a completely isolated system from the headunit. There are also now bluetooth amps that would be even cleaner install, but the ones I were looking at were out of stock.

Of course, I wouldn't cut up any of the original wiring,

Doing it this way, its much easier to not only tune, but you dont have to worry about anything with the headunit, it would be nice if there was an audio out from the factory headunit I could run to the amp as well for navigation and such, I need to make sure its okay not having any speakers from the headunit, I think the chime / warning sounds come from the speakers so I may need to wire up at least 1 speaker maybe in the center of the dash.

This is all theory, I am going to pass this idea along to some audio shops here locally and see what they think. Honestly, it might just be best to pick up a bimmer tech or bavsound kit and call it a day.

Thank you for the help.

ctuna · 03-23-2022, 02:30 PM

Looks like your trying to reinvent the wheel here.
The Base build thread at the top of the last bit of links
I put up really defines the problem.

Sticky links have photo apps that no longer are supported which
is to bad because there where some nice builds that were well
documented in there.

The question is sound quality (speakers amps dsp )
or features with Headunits which raises greater quality and reliability
problems in the case of the chinese android units.

moz335d · 03-23-2022, 05:46 PM

Well a lot of solutions have vanished it looks like, the OEM Alpine upgrade would have been perfect imo.

I know what the problem is, I'm trying to work around it, if I'm not mistaken, even with "drop in" speaker replacements, at the end of the day its never going to be as good as a component setup like HiFi and up has.

The parallel or isolated system is really a theory, it would be a significantly more technical job.

I understand what you are getting at, with only 4 speakers and the subs, there is really no good hi or mid range coverage, low range with subs is easy enough.

I'll keep digging around for anything thats left, alot of write ups on here are using components that have been long discontinued.

moz335d · 03-23-2022, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctuna

Looks like your trying to reinvent the wheel here.
The Base build thread at the top of the last bit of links
I put up really defines the problem.

Sticky links have photo apps that no longer are supported which
is to bad because there where some nice builds that were well
documented in there.

The question is sound quality (speakers amps dsp )
or features with Headunits which raises greater quality and reliability
problems in the case of the chinese android units.

Yep, I did a whole lot more reading about 40 different posts, nearly crashed chrome with how many I had gone though lol. Sorry for adding another thread of confusion, I see you answering these on nearly every one.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, the BEST way to do an upgrade from base, is the Technic 4/6 harness, a nice Fischer amp and new speakers.

Program HiFi in the OE system to get rid of the EQ garbage, and viola. And back to the original question, this should also allow for the addition of an external amp and subwoofer for the trunk if so desired, however, with the right underseat sub it looks to be unnecessary.

If I got that right, then great, just need to put together a list of stuff and get it ordered.

ctuna · 03-23-2022, 08:18 PM

My suggestion would be a Audiotec Fisher 86 dsp or BMW 7
those are rather expensive but most people Rave about them.
Audiotec Fisher also makes speakers. (that fit)
The BMW tweeter pods for the front can be had pretty cheaply.
The Base Build threads tells you the basic's of what to do and why.
DSP substitues for a frequency flattening device if you can't or don't
want to reprogram the Head Unit plus gives you all the advantages
of DSP.

There is other stuff that will work .
6 channel or more 50 watt per channel or more dsp/amps .

MusicarNW is where I got my kit quite awhile ago they know how to do it.
Pretty expensive now and even years ago though.

03-21-2022, 11:20 PM	#1
moz335d makes poor financial decisions 6 Rep 56 Posts Drives: 11' 335d & 35D Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Georgia, USA iTrader: (0)	How to get more bass with Base? Like many, I'm sure we all ask why the heck a 50k car would even be offered with 4 measly speakers and 2 woofs. I don't hate the audio quality, but it definitely could be a little more clear, one thing I don't like is the lack of bass (not the fish). Looking at harnesses, retrofitting amps and all kinds of crazy stuff seems to be overkill compared to the drop in upgrades offered by Bavsound, vibe, etc. Is there any way to run a typical sub and amp setup with the base audio? By either bypassing the underseat woofers or somehow sharing the signal to the amp? (There's just something about watching your interior crumble to pieces and unintentionally finding anything loose lol) Any help / advice would be appreciated.
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03-22-2022, 02:36 AM	#2
ctuna Lieutenant General 1911 Rep 13,102 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	When you go shopping do you buy the first thing on the shelf just because it's the first thing you see? None of BMW's common sound systems are that good. Even the amps are at 10 percent distortion at the published power. At one time Bavsound was the only thing offered . Now not so much. Bavsound promised there own OEM amplifier for a long time but I don't think they ever delivered it . The amp they now offer is a re badged Helix Audio tech fisher BMW 7. They don't publish the speaker specs is one of the beefs I have Attaching a Big Sub and Amp to a Base system = A bad Base system with Big Bass but maybe that is what you want.
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03-23-2022, 01:25 AM	#4
ctuna Lieutenant General 1911 Rep 13,102 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	Because the door speakers are only 4 inch going from a 4 inch to a sub leaves a big midrange gap. This mean's to get a full range experience you have to do something with the underseats(better speakers and amped). base system wiring pre/post 3/09 Base System Guide http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...5&d=1493273253 BMW stereo types http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=352586 http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...2&d=1266451970 http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...2&d=1260829447 http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1209780865 http://bmwcoders.com/forum/3-er-8/bm...1-e92-e93-291/ http://technicpnp.com/menuDiagrams/d...e90_92_93.html http://www.musicarnw.com/page-2/ http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...3&d=1169133185 http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1209780605 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641323 http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...4&d=1278871872 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343673 https://www.bimmerfest.com/threads/e...n-752.1275694/ base system wiring pre/post 3/09 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...tDpLJPcGkw_ui_ Base System Guide http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...5&d=1493273253
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03-23-2022, 12:54 PM	#5
moz335d makes poor financial decisions 6 Rep 56 Posts Drives: 11' 335d & 35D Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Georgia, USA iTrader: (0)	I agree, I got in touch with both musicar and some local shops here, and they basically all said the same thing, the only way to get better quality is to ditch the stereo, install door tweeters, speakers, amps and all. Most of those links in the sticky are dead btw. I am going to close this thread, after talking to one of the guys, we bounced around the idea of a parallel system. The idea is to put together a system in the trunk that uses a 4 channel amp with outputs for the sub amp, run new wires to the rear deck and door speakers, add tweeters at the same time as replacing the speakers with better sounding ones. Since the Avin unit doesn't really do that well with audio quality, instead I would opt for running a Dragonfly DAC with a lightning cable poking out under the center console where I normally put my phone. This would then go to a RCA patch cable back to the 4 channel amp, and be a completely isolated system from the headunit. There are also now bluetooth amps that would be even cleaner install, but the ones I were looking at were out of stock. Of course, I wouldn't cut up any of the original wiring, Doing it this way, its much easier to not only tune, but you dont have to worry about anything with the headunit, it would be nice if there was an audio out from the factory headunit I could run to the amp as well for navigation and such, I need to make sure its okay not having any speakers from the headunit, I think the chime / warning sounds come from the speakers so I may need to wire up at least 1 speaker maybe in the center of the dash. This is all theory, I am going to pass this idea along to some audio shops here locally and see what they think. Honestly, it might just be best to pick up a bimmer tech or bavsound kit and call it a day. Thank you for the help.
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03-23-2022, 02:30 PM	#6
ctuna Lieutenant General 1911 Rep 13,102 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	Looks like your trying to reinvent the wheel here. The Base build thread at the top of the last bit of links I put up really defines the problem. Sticky links have photo apps that no longer are supported which is to bad because there where some nice builds that were well documented in there. The question is sound quality (speakers amps dsp ) or features with Headunits which raises greater quality and reliability problems in the case of the chinese android units. Last edited by ctuna; 03-23-2022 at 02:43 PM..
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03-23-2022, 05:46 PM	#7
moz335d makes poor financial decisions 6 Rep 56 Posts Drives: 11' 335d & 35D Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Georgia, USA iTrader: (0)	Well a lot of solutions have vanished it looks like, the OEM Alpine upgrade would have been perfect imo. I know what the problem is, I'm trying to work around it, if I'm not mistaken, even with "drop in" speaker replacements, at the end of the day its never going to be as good as a component setup like HiFi and up has. The parallel or isolated system is really a theory, it would be a significantly more technical job. I understand what you are getting at, with only 4 speakers and the subs, there is really no good hi or mid range coverage, low range with subs is easy enough. I'll keep digging around for anything thats left, alot of write ups on here are using components that have been long discontinued.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-23-2022, 08:18 PM	#9
ctuna Lieutenant General 1911 Rep 13,102 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	My suggestion would be a Audiotec Fisher 86 dsp or BMW 7 those are rather expensive but most people Rave about them. Audiotec Fisher also makes speakers. (that fit) The BMW tweeter pods for the front can be had pretty cheaply. The Base Build threads tells you the basic's of what to do and why. DSP substitues for a frequency flattening device if you can't or don't want to reprogram the Head Unit plus gives you all the advantages of DSP. There is other stuff that will work . 6 channel or more 50 watt per channel or more dsp/amps . MusicarNW is where I got my kit quite awhile ago they know how to do it. Pretty expensive now and even years ago though.
	Appreciate 0 Quote