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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum
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Official Learn To Drive Manual Cars Thread
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02-07-2008, 01:03 PM | #23 |
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02-07-2008, 01:03 PM | #24 |
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Wow Nabil, useful thread.
(wth?)
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02-07-2008, 01:04 PM | #25 | |
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To be more precise though, drive in traffic during your learning process. For me this increased the quickness of my learning curve. Before trying to get the throttle to clutch ratio down, I suggest learning to launch the car using only the clutch. That way you know whereabout the egagement is related to release of the clutch pedal. |
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02-07-2008, 01:09 PM | #26 | |
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![]() There are 3 speeds in your car. 1. Engine speed RPM 2. Wheel speed MPH 3. Flywheel and other internal tranny part speed When you skip the neutral part you are synchronizing engine speed with wheel speed, but not the internals speed. your synchros will still have to work to get everything spinning up to speed. what you are doing is the minimum that should be done. but still not enough |
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02-07-2008, 01:10 PM | #27 |
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You are fine, your ride comfort won't be punish from going from 6th to 5th, or from 5th to 4th, or even from 6th to 4th.
You will need to rev-match a bit more accurately (a.k.a. less forgiving) if you downshift to 3rd or 2nd. Otherwise, your ride comfort will suffer.
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02-07-2008, 01:14 PM | #28 | ||||
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1. Pull e-brake, put in gear, and start releasing clutch while giving gas. Right before the gear engages, release your e-brake 2. if you are experienced enough just let it roll for a little bit and take off as usual giving more gas 3. bmw hill assist sucks IMO, coz i love the feeling of falling back ![]() LOL |
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02-07-2008, 01:19 PM | #30 | ||
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02-07-2008, 01:30 PM | #31 | |
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I'd seen another thread where someone mentioned someone who put the car in neutral when going round bends and I postulated that this individual was in the running for a Darwin award. Then I thought about it a bit and reckoned that the lack of knowledge on how to use a manual transmission might be due to what I understand to be the case that on your side of the pond automatic transmissions are the norm so many of you learn to drive using an auto box. So I'm not here to heap abuse and or ridicule on anyone. So, the first method of downshifting you describe where the gearbox is moved into neutral and the clutch is reengaged, is what is known as double declutching - you attribute this to the second method. You do not need to double declutch with a full synchromesh gearbox at all. This technique was used before synchro gearboxes were invented and I see no benefit in practicing it unless you need to drive a Heavy Goods Vehicle. If you want to downshift use the second method i.e. 1 Clutch down i.e. disengaging the engine from the gearbox 2. Shift gear using a blip of the throttle to match the revs required for the same speed in a lower gear. You do not need to put the gear in neutral - just move it straight through neutral into the desired gear 3. Clutch up i.e. reengaging the engine and the gearbox. Blipping the throttle is not necessary with a synchro gearbox but is good practice since as you have noted it means that when you reengage the clutch the engine is spinning at the same or a similar speed to the gearbox. This means that as the clutch is reengaged you don't have put a sudden load on either component, thus saving unnecessary wear on both the engine and gearbox. The basic idea is be smooth. Other points. Never leave the car in neutral when on the move. Always have the car in gear. Make sure that it is the appropriate gear for your speed and the road conditions. Neither hold a gear to the redline every time before changing up, nor hold the car in too high a gear as you slow down. The car needs to be able to respond at all times to deal with the unexpected. When you come to a halt at say some stop lights and you can see that they won't change in less than a few seconds, engage the handbrake and put the car in neutral. Keeping the clutch depressed wears out the thrust bearing unnecessarily. You should note that with a synchro box it is possible (but not recommended) to change gear without using the clutch at all. It is quite simple with upshifts, not so simple with downshifts, but the principle is true either way that if the engine revs are matched to the speed at which the gearbox is spinning the gears will engage without the use of the clutch. Hear endeth the lesson. May your manual gearboxes give you as much pleasure as mine does!.... |
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02-07-2008, 01:31 PM | #32 | |
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a) Riding the clutch = bad b) Dropping the clutch (such as on a quick launch = bad Questions (assuming the above statements are true) a) So is feathering the clutch bad also? Or is that the "ideal" way to go? I find that the only way to shift smoothly is to feather just about every shift in gears a lot (except maybe the higher gears) b) Dropping the clutch is bad on the ____________. c) Riding the cluch is bad on the ____________. And if i'm completely off here, someone feel free to ![]() ![]()
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02-07-2008, 01:33 PM | #33 |
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The following is not me; but these are great videos if you're new to a manual trans. or just want to improve your driving.
Intro Seating Position Gentle Launch Moderate Launch Aggressive Launch Heel and Toe Theory Heel and Toe Upshifting Theory Upshifting Single Clutch Downshift Double Clutch Downshift Putting it Together Part 1 Putting it Together Part 2
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02-07-2008, 01:37 PM | #34 | |
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02-07-2008, 01:38 PM | #35 |
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Maybe one of you guys can help with this. When I take off in 1st gear from a stop my car usually hesitates a bit before "engaging"- the hesitation is very slight...I don't know if I'm being clear or not- what do you folks think this is attributed too? I don't think I'm riding the clutch- maybe I'm letting it out too slow- or too fast?! I usually rev the engine just a little bit when in neutral and then I shift to 1st gear.
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02-07-2008, 01:38 PM | #36 | |
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we're not here to slap anyway ![]() a) So is feathering the clutch bad also? Or is that the "ideal" way to go? I find that the only way to shift smoothly is to feather just about every shift in gears a lot (except maybe the higher gears) -- Im not sure feathering is bad at all... ![]() b) Dropping the clutch is bad on the *clutch plate*... i think anyway c) Riding the cluch is bad on the *clutch plate* |
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02-07-2008, 01:40 PM | #37 |
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If it's that steep use the handbrake and put it in 1st gear. Also have the front wheels pointed so if the car does roll back it will roll into and not away from the kerb.
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02-07-2008, 01:42 PM | #38 | |||
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riding the clutch is when you're driving on freeway for example, and just rest your foot on the pedal. you think you're not depressing at all and barely touching, but in reality it's killing ur clutch |
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02-07-2008, 01:48 PM | #39 | |
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Also, I was concerned that the "hicups" I was feeling sometimes when i shifted from 1-2 or 2-3 were from either the CDV or just my bad manual driving abilities but my friend was saying when he drove my car that it may be the turbos kicking in. I know this isn't a "Turbo" thread, but it may be beneficial if someone could explain this so people would know what aspects of their driving (smoothness of shifts) is due to their manual driving abilities, and what can be attributed to other factors.
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02-07-2008, 01:50 PM | #40 | |
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Don't ride the clutch if you can avoid it - sometimes in heavy stop start traffic it's difficult to avoid. If you're not changing gear your foot should never be on the clutch pedal - BMW provide you with a foot rest for your left foot so put it there. As for dumping the clutch I see no point in it nor any need unless you are trying to post a 0 to 60 time when the revs will be high to start with and you want to get the power through to the rear wheels asap. Even then you won't truly dump the clutch. You will still need to feed the clutch in to take up the engine's power - you will just be doing it a lot quicker than normal. By the same token when you depress the clutch it shouldn't be a violent stamp on the clutch pedal. The key is smoothness on both upshifts and downshifts. One thing I find helps is to hold the gear stick firmly - not with a death grip but not loosely either. |
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02-07-2008, 01:52 PM | #41 | |
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Un4gettable 435i Extended Test drive thread: http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=881491 |
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02-07-2008, 01:53 PM | #42 | |
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02-07-2008, 01:53 PM | #43 | |
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I have no idea which RPM's are bad for the 335, i'd imagine 2k and above are a lot of torque! I havent gotten my 6MT yet ![]() someone else can chime in here. |
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02-07-2008, 01:53 PM | #44 | |
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From that M5 training vid, the guy seemed to agree with you that you really don't NEED to double-clutch in normal down shifting, but he did seem to imply that there was some minor benefit.
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