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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > BMW Coding > How to register battery REPLACEMENT? (vs. battery exchange)



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      02-13-2019, 03:33 AM   #1
Jim_B
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How to register battery REPLACEMENT? (vs. battery exchange)

In ISTA+/ISTA(D), it seems it will register a new battery exchange. That is to say, replacing an AGM battery with another AGM battery. It also says it can register an AGM battery if you're going to an AGM from a lead/acid battery. (I didn't explore that option, as that's not what I'm looking to do.) What I didn't see is an option to replace an AGM battery with a lead/acid battery. That's what I'd like to do. When I go into the 'Register Battery Exchange' screen, it has choices and you can go through the registration procedure. When I go into the 'Register Battery Replacement' screen, it brings up text/instructions, but there are no battery registration options. Anyone notice this before? Any options for registering a lead/acid battery? Use another program? If so, what one?

Last edited by Jim_B; 02-13-2019 at 03:48 AM.
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      02-13-2019, 04:11 AM   #2
ctuna
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https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...hlight=battery
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      02-13-2019, 01:41 PM   #3
Jim_B
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctuna View Post
Thanks for the link, I think that's exactly the info I need.
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      02-13-2019, 02:39 PM   #4
gbalthrop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_B View Post
In ISTA+/ISTA(D), it seems it will register a new battery exchange. That is to say, replacing an AGM battery with another AGM battery. It also says it can register an AGM battery if you're going to an AGM from a lead/acid battery. (I didn't explore that option, as that's not what I'm looking to do.) What I didn't see is an option to replace an AGM battery with a lead/acid battery. That's what I'd like to do. When I go into the 'Register Battery Exchange' screen, it has choices and you can go through the registration procedure. When I go into the 'Register Battery Replacement' screen, it brings up text/instructions, but there are no battery registration options. Anyone notice this before? Any options for registering a lead/acid battery? Use another program? If so, what one?
Simplest program to use to change either (1) Battery Type (Klasse Batterie) between AGM or FLA (Flooded Lead-Acid), and/or (2) change Ah (Ampere-hour) rating is NCS Dummy. That program has an Interface which is similar to a Windows Option selection interface. You can read existing selections (which selection box is checked), or you can click on another selection and save the change(s).

I will attach a screen to the next post (so as NOT to ruin margins of this page), from an older version of NCS Dummy which I have on my Desktop. This is NOT exactly as the screen would appear if using a Laptop CONNECTED to your CAS via K+DCAN cable, as NO checkboxes appear until connected, but you can see what the options are.

I use INPA (part of BMW Standard Tools, which also includes NCS Expert & Dummy), and have NOT yet used ISTA, so don't know if ISTA can actually CHANGE battery type or Ah rating selections/coding, or just show you what is currently selected/coded. All INPA can do is show you current Ah rating selected, and show you mileage at which the Replacement Battery "Registrations" (BatterieTausch Registrieren) occurred (up to 4 replacements). You can "Register" a battery in INPA, but ALL you are doing is entering the current mileage/km from the odometer when you "push the Batterietausch Registrieren button."

So "Registration" is NOTHING but INFORMATIONAL entry of then-current mileage/km when the button was pushed. You could just put a label on your battery that shows that information, and the Month/Date stamp on most batteries serves the same purpose. It does NOT change either Battery Type, or Ah rating of the battery inputs/ coding to the CAS/DME, which are the two code selections that affect how the Power Management System charges the battery. Unfortunately a lot of people in a hurry, and/or who never took the time to understand how the system works, throw the word "Registration" around in such a way that "MISINFORMATION" is disseminated as gospel.

So, with those concepts in mind, please let us know if you find anything in ISTA that allows one to actually CHANGE the existing "coding" used by the Power Management System to charge a battery of a different type or Ah rating. Or does it, like INPA, ONLY show you the current coding or option selection.

George
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      02-13-2019, 02:55 PM   #5
gbalthrop
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NCS Dummy Battery Type (Klasse Batterie)

Here is the NCS Dummy Screen Print, NOT connected, NO Checkboxes
Search (Ctrl+F) "Klasse" in CAS
NOTE: Ah ratings 70, 80, 90, 110, (105AGM)
NO Provision for entry of "odd"/different Ah ratings
Need to select "Nearest" Ah rating in option list
Assuming proper selection made on LAST replacement may NOT be safe
So simply replacing with battery of same Type & Ah rating ASSumes above
Pays to use Dummy to determine existing coding is correct for existing battery

Thoughts?
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      02-13-2019, 02:59 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
...please let us know if you find anything in ISTA that allows one to actually CHANGE the existing "coding" used by the Power Management System to charge a battery of a different type or Ah rating. Or does it, like INPA, ONLY show you the current coding or option selection.
Good info - thanks for the reply.

I'm pretty sure I saw an option in ISTA to go from FLA to AGM, but I didn't explore it as that's not what I'm looking to do.
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      02-13-2019, 03:05 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
Thoughts?
Not really, at this point I don't know much/anything about NCS Dummy.
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      02-17-2019, 08:38 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post

So "Registration" is NOTHING but INFORMATIONAL entry of then-current mileage/km when the button was pushed. You could just put a label on your battery that shows that information, and the Month/Date stamp on most batteries serves the same purpose. It does NOT change either Battery Type, or Ah rating of the battery inputs/ coding to the CAS/DME, which are the two code selections that affect how the Power Management System charges the battery. Unfortunately a lot of people in a hurry, and/or who never took the time to understand how the system works, throw the word "Registration" around in such a way that "MISINFORMATION" is disseminated as gospel.

George

I feel this information is slightly misleading. If you read the battery registration functional description in ISTA. Battery registration is a bit more than km/date information.
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      02-19-2019, 12:32 AM   #9
gbalthrop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neilj35 View Post
I feel this information is slightly misleading. If you read the battery registration functional description in ISTA. Battery registration is a bit more than km/date information.
I agree that there is MORE to it than what I provided, so let me state what I know from using INPA as opposed to ISTA.

In INPA, as configured for my E91 with N52KP engine, MSV80 DME, the Power Module Main Menu (MSV80 PM Hauptmenu) has TWO Function Keys you can press to perform the functions described in the ISTA screen you attached:

<F5> Batterietausch registrieren: which, as discussed previously in this thread, ONLY enters the current mileage/km in PM Infofeld 1 (first step in your ISTA screen)

<F6> Histogramm Reset: This step CLEARS the histogram data (Last 5 days) which performs BOTH of the steps 2 & 3 shown in your ISTA screen.

If one has INPA or ISTA, performing the "Histogramm Reset" in addition to recording the Odometer "kilometers" in DME memory should be done, BUT NEITHER is necessary for the following reasons:

1) IF you record the date & mileage when you installed a new battery ELSEWHERE, as in service records, or on the battery itself, then you have the km when last battery installation occurred, and as noted before, this entry in the DME memory does NOT alter how the battery is charged.

2) IF you do NOT Clear or Reset the Histogramm, then it will overwrite the data you did NOT clear in the next 5 days anyway. AFAIK (according to Bentley & BMW Training Manuals), new data is compiled with each startup and shutdown, and the DME PM goes by the most recent data saved.

ANYONE having different info, please advise & state source of that information. My source is from personal use of INPA to do precisely what is described above.

Once again, if one CHANGES either the battery type (AGM vs. FLA) or changes the Ah rating of the battery by more than 5 Ah, then recoding with NCS Dummy is advisable. Also, if you have any doubt as to whether the previous battery installer properly coded the system for the existing battery, then you should check the current settings using NCS Dummy.

George
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      02-19-2019, 07:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
I agree that there is MORE to it than what I provided, so let me state what I know from using INPA as opposed to ISTA.

In INPA, as configured for my E91 with N52KP engine, MSV80 DME, the Power Module Main Menu (MSV80 PM Hauptmenu) has TWO Function Keys you can press to perform the functions described in the ISTA screen you attached:

<F5> Batterietausch registrieren: which, as discussed previously in this thread, ONLY enters the current mileage/km in PM Infofeld 1 (first step in your ISTA screen)

<F6> Histogramm Reset: This step CLEARS the histogram data (Last 5 days) which performs BOTH of the steps 2 & 3 shown in your ISTA screen.

If one has INPA or ISTA, performing the "Histogramm Reset" in addition to recording the Odometer "kilometers" in DME memory should be done, BUT NEITHER is necessary for the following reasons:

1) IF you record the date & mileage when you installed a new battery ELSEWHERE, as in service records, or on the battery itself, then you have the km when last battery installation occurred, and as noted before, this entry in the DME memory does NOT alter how the battery is charged.

2) IF you do NOT Clear or Reset the Histogramm, then it will overwrite the data you did NOT clear in the next 5 days anyway. AFAIK (according to Bentley & BMW Training Manuals), new data is compiled with each startup and shutdown, and the DME PM goes by the most recent data saved.

ANYONE having different info, please advise & state source of that information. My source is from personal use of INPA to do precisely what is described above.

Once again, if one CHANGES either the battery type (AGM vs. FLA) or changes the Ah rating of the battery by more than 5 Ah, then recoding with NCS Dummy is advisable. Also, if you have any doubt as to whether the previous battery installer properly coded the system for the existing battery, then you should check the current settings using NCS Dummy.

George
It would be necessary to do the reset/registration if the power management is shutting down consumers because the battery is in poor condition.
I have had quite a few occasions where people were complaining about their heated rear window not working and heated seats not working. In these instances the issues were caused by a battery that was in poor condition and the power management had chosen to deactivate these functions. Even when the battery was replaced they still didn't work.
Only after i registered the battery ie: reset the power management did these functions start working again.
I guess it's fine not registering/resetting it if you're working on your own car. Maybe these functions will start to work again when it resets itself, i don't know.
I would rather just register the battery and be done with it. 2 minute job, and the customer is happy that they have working heated windows or seats or whatever.
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      02-20-2019, 12:44 PM   #11
gbalthrop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neilj35 View Post
It would be necessary to do the reset/registration if the power management is shutting down consumers because the battery is in poor condition. I have had quite a few occasions where people were complaining about their heated rear window not working and heated seats not working. In these instances the issues were caused by a battery that was in poor condition and the power management had chosen to deactivate these functions. Even when the battery was replaced they still didn't work. Only after i registered the battery ie: reset the power management did these functions start working again...
Neil, I appreciate your taking the time to share your knowledge & experience. I'm certainly NOT a BMW expert, just someone who has done his own vehicle diagnosis & maintenance for 50 years, and is trying to understand BMW systems and software, as a first-time BMW owner after years of Jag ownership. I have taken a lot of time to try to understand what diagnostics INPA provides, and hope to soon install & learn how to use ISTA.

So as to understand what you are describing as far as "reset power management" or "initialise" (as described in step 3 of your earlier post) I have several questions:
1) What software are you using to Reset/Initialise the PM (ISTA I presume)?
2) What specific Functions/Actions are you utilizing in that software?
3) If you are using something other than INPA to do that, is what you are doing the SAME as "Histogramm Reset" in the INPA PM Menu?

One last question (or two) , Is anything recorded in either ISTA or INPA that indicates when and/or under what conditions the PM system has shut down consumers? Anything similar to Fault Codes or FF Data that record in DME/PM memory WHEN such a "shutdown" occurs?

Thanks,
George
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      02-20-2019, 08:05 PM   #12
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Hi George,
I am certainly no expert either, but i have been a Mechanic for 25 years, 7 years of that with BMW back when our E9xs were only just being released for the first time. Our cars were certainly very fancy back then!
To answer your questions,
1. Yes i do use ISTA for all diagnosis battery reg etc. Like you said it logs the install date, and resets the power management to restart any fuctions that may have been switched off or limited by the power management. I like it because if you have a fault code stored in a car, you can run the test procedure and it gives you a step by step instruction on what and how to test, and it also gives you a wiring diagram of the circuit you are working on and also gives you a functional description of that system works. A lot can be learned by just reading those descriptions. I find them very handy.
2. The only way to reset the histogram with ISTA as far as i know is to register a battery. I think from memory the other thing that resets the histogram is a software update of the DME. INPA may be a better option if you only want to reset the histogram.
3. The car will log a fault in the power management but it doesn't really give specific information. ISTA will just tell you to run the Energy Diagnosis procedure, which will then give you a little bit more information depending on what it has detected. It doesn't tell you what it has shutdown or when though, but there is a handy functional description chart of what it CAN shutdown or functionally limit if it decides to. This only applies to cars with a IBS.
4. I highly recommend getting ISTA. It is a very good tool to have i think.
Cheers, Neil
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      02-21-2019, 01:21 AM   #13
gbalthrop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neilj35 View Post
...
4. I highly recommend getting ISTA. It is a very good tool to have i think.
Cheers, Neil
Thanks Neil for taking the time to answer my questions about ISTA. So it sounds like it has TIS, Bentley & full diagnostics (with flow chart) all in the same application.

Will definitely check it out in the next few months.

Thanks again,
George
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