E90Post
 


 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Off-Topic Discussions Board > Best way to get wifi into our poolhouse?



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-19-2018, 10:48 AM   #23
TheWatchGuy
Captain
TheWatchGuy's Avatar
921
Rep
798
Posts

Drives: 335xi
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: CO

iTrader: (0)

.75" conduit is sufficient, could get away with .5" as well if you only run the one cable. ( I recommend 2 cables cause if you are pulling 1 in, 2 is just as easy)

LB out the house, 90 into the ground. bury it 18" along the sidewalk. 90 up out of ground, LB into pool house. Slap connectors on and plug into routers.

if you arent handy, or dont want to deal with it, it is a half to full day job for any competent electrician/handyman depending on distance and what is in the way.

or you can try a powerful router in the closest openings to each other in the main and pool houses. should be enough to get you a signal to the pool house, and then the router in there will be able to spread throughout the pool house.
__________________
@drunkcowatches on ig

#judy4prez
Appreciate 0
      07-19-2018, 11:09 AM   #24
zx10guy
Lieutenant Colonel
1435
Rep
1,728
Posts

Drives: 2013 135i
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy View Post
.75" conduit is sufficient, could get away with .5" as well if you only run the one cable. ( I recommend 2 cables cause if you are pulling 1 in, 2 is just as easy)

LB out the house, 90 into the ground. bury it 18" along the sidewalk. 90 up out of ground, LB into pool house. Slap connectors on and plug into routers.

if you arent handy, or dont want to deal with it, it is a half to full day job for any competent electrician/handyman depending on distance and what is in the way.

or you can try a powerful router in the closest openings to each other in the main and pool houses. should be enough to get you a signal to the pool house, and then the router in there will be able to spread throughout the pool house.
The suggestion you provided for a "powerful" wireless router placed at the windows closest to each other in both buildings won't work well either. Here are the problems with this suggestion. First, using a wireless router would mean trying to get proper wireless connection/performance out of two devices with omni-directional antennas. In a situation where distance is a major factor, the use of omni-directional antennas are the last thing you want to utilize. Second, consumer grade wireless routers can only bridge over single radio which is typically 2.4 GHz. The use of 2.4 GHz for distance wireless backhauls is a bad idea due to only 3 available non-overlapping channels (1, 6, 11). This is why 5 GHz is used by wireless mesh systems and point to point wireless backbone/backhaul equipment. Third, the FCC regulates the amount of transmit power any wireless equipment running over open air space for 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz can produce. The only way you're going to get the ability to have more transmit power is if you use outdoor APs which the FCC allows.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
We might not be in an agreement on Trump, but I'll be the first penis chaser here to say I'll rather take it up in the ass than to argue with you on this.
Appreciate 0
      07-19-2018, 12:34 PM   #25
TheWatchGuy
Captain
TheWatchGuy's Avatar
921
Rep
798
Posts

Drives: 335xi
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: CO

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
The suggestion you provided for a "powerful" wireless router placed at the windows closest to each other in both buildings won't work well either. Here are the problems with this suggestion. First, using a wireless router would mean trying to get proper wireless connection/performance out of two devices with omni-directional antennas. In a situation where distance is a major factor, the use of omni-directional antennas are the last thing you want to utilize. Second, consumer grade wireless routers can only bridge over single radio which is typically 2.4 GHz. The use of 2.4 GHz for distance wireless backhauls is a bad idea due to only 3 available non-overlapping channels (1, 6, 11). This is why 5 GHz is used by wireless mesh systems and point to point wireless backbone/backhaul equipment. Third, the FCC regulates the amount of transmit power any wireless equipment running over open air space for 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz can produce. The only way you're going to get the ability to have more transmit power is if you use outdoor APs which the FCC allows.
my routers are bridged at 5ghz

i agree though, not the best option, and not the cheapest. cheapest is running a cable yourself.
__________________
@drunkcowatches on ig

#judy4prez
Appreciate 0
      07-21-2018, 12:33 AM   #26
eluded
2JZ-GTE
eluded's Avatar
Bulgaria
1022
Rep
2,195
Posts

Drives: 340 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Sofia

iTrader: (0)

Run fiber or have att put cell station in backyard
Appreciate 0
      07-21-2018, 12:48 AM   #27
M_Six
Free Thinker
M_Six's Avatar
United_States
1849
Rep
6,433
Posts

Drives: 2012 MB C300 4matic
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Foothills of Mt Level

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Assuming your pool house is electrically wired to your main house, just use powerline Ethernet adapters. Plug one in wherever your main router/modem is and plug in the other end to the pool house, then run an Ethernet cable from that to an AP, like an Apple base station or Google wifi. I have a webcam in our shed that runs through Ethernet-over-powerline and the connection is rock solid.

Modem/router in main house => Ethernet-Over-Powerline => 2nd Ethernet-Over-Powerline in pool house => Wifi AP (Apple or Google wifi).
__________________
Mark
markj.pics

"There is no shame in dropping fruit in your glass."
-UncleWede
Appreciate 0
      07-21-2018, 12:51 AM   #28
jgoens
Major General
jgoens's Avatar
3274
Rep
5,470
Posts

Drives: 2013 335i msport
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: San Mateo, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
IF there are telephone poles in the back yard (ASSuming pool is in the back) then your local internet provider can just pull another line off the poles and give you a complete set-up in the pool house. Then when you rent it to PoorLurker you can charge him that separate line.

BUT, I would never rent it out to Skunkwerks
Oh..that name is still coming up. Mods, can you delete the Skunkwerks user and ban UncleWede while your at it..but to add to the thread...I would run a wire. That's what I did in my house: Cat five from modem to router (about 100') and that connects wall plug in extender. Have great connections.
__________________
2013 335i Msport Black sapphire/Coral red. JB4. MHD. VRSF DP, ER CP, Dinan Shockware. VRSF 12mm/15mm spacers. Cobra dashcam. Various codings.
Last car: 2011 335i Msport. JB4. Vrsf CP
Appreciate 0
      07-21-2018, 01:10 AM   #29
UncleWede
Long Time Admirer, First Time Owner
UncleWede's Avatar
United_States
4544
Rep
5,523
Posts

Drives: E90 325i Arctic
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Oxnard, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgoens View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
IF there are telephone poles in the back yard (ASSuming pool is in the back) then your local internet provider can just pull another line off the poles and give you a complete set-up in the pool house. Then when you rent it to PoorLurker you can charge him that separate line.

BUT, I would never rent it out to Skunkwerks
Oh..that name is still coming up. Mods, can you delete the Skunkwerks user and ban UncleWede while your at it..but to add to the thread...I would run a wire. That's what I did in my house: Cat five from modem to router (about 100') and that connects wall plug in extender. Have great connections.
#whippersnappers need to see and learn from history to avoid same mistake in future
Appreciate 4
jgoens3274.00

      07-22-2018, 01:53 AM   #30
TS29849228
Private
TS29849228's Avatar
United_States
19
Rep
76
Posts

Drives: F80/F82
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

The power line adapter did not work. There's is some sort of connection issue between the pool house and main house.

The power line adapters we're working together in the same room when I tested them but once I moved the 2nd unit to the pool house it just didn't work.

My next option is to return this and buy the mesh system? I saw it at Best Buy for 350 to 500..... and I think google was one of the makers

:/
__________________
///M
Current car: Mineral Gray 2018 M3 Exec Pack / Manual
Appreciate 0
      07-22-2018, 01:53 AM   #31
TS29849228
Private
TS29849228's Avatar
United_States
19
Rep
76
Posts

Drives: F80/F82
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Running a wire seems difficult....

We have concrete, trees and walls in between the pool house and main house sadly....
__________________
///M
Current car: Mineral Gray 2018 M3 Exec Pack / Manual
Appreciate 0
      07-22-2018, 04:17 AM   #32
xQx
General
Australia
381
Rep
600
Posts

Drives: 2008 BMW 135i (E88 N54 6AT)
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Sunshine Coast QLD Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TS29849228 View Post
The power line adapter did not work. There's is some sort of connection issue between the pool house and main house.

The power line adapters we're working together in the same room when I tested them but once I moved the 2nd unit to the pool house it just didn't work.

My next option is to return this and buy the mesh system? I saw it at Best Buy for 350 to 500..... and I think google was one of the makers

:/
can you give us photos?

is there line of site between the pool house and the house?
__________________
2008 BMW 135i Convertible 6AT (E88 N54) M Sport (BMS DCI, VRSF 7" Intercooler, VRSF CP, VRSF v2 DP, Turbosmart BOV, JB4 w/ Bluetooth Gauges, BMS E85 BEF, SmartTop Module, xHP Stage 3, BMS Cowl Filters, RB Inlets & Outlets, MFactory 1.5way LSD, Fuel-it Stage 2+ Bucketless)
Appreciate 0
      07-22-2018, 09:57 AM   #33
BEM-S4
Major General
BEM-S4's Avatar
United_States
3071
Rep
7,342
Posts

Drives: Dinan M235, Dinan Sport Wagon
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Philadelphia

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TS29849228 View Post
My next option is to return this and buy the mesh system? I saw it at Best Buy for 350 to 500..... and I think google was one of the makers

:/
I would go with the Netgear one if I were you. The Google one is good I installed it at dad's house but it's less modular. Orbi seems more professional grade and you can add as many units as you want. If pool house to main house is a bit too far you could even put the all weather Orbi in between to bridge the gap.
__________________
2016 F23 M235 xDrive Apex EC-7 Dinan Stage 2 AA IC MPE
2016 F31 328 xDrive BSM/SB Dinan Stage 1
2014 F30 328i xDrive
2007 E70 X5 4.8
2006 E46 330ci ZHP Apex ARC-8
Appreciate 0
      07-22-2018, 10:13 AM   #34
zx10guy
Lieutenant Colonel
1435
Rep
1,728
Posts

Drives: 2013 135i
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy View Post
my routers are bridged at 5ghz

i agree though, not the best option, and not the cheapest. cheapest is running a cable yourself.
That's nice you have the option to use 5GHz as the bridge frequency. Good to see enterprise features making their way into consumer grade equipment.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
We might not be in an agreement on Trump, but I'll be the first penis chaser here to say I'll rather take it up in the ass than to argue with you on this.
Appreciate 0
      07-22-2018, 10:17 AM   #35
zx10guy
Lieutenant Colonel
1435
Rep
1,728
Posts

Drives: 2013 135i
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BEM-S4 View Post
I would go with the Netgear one if I were you. The Google one is good I installed it at dad's house but it's less modular. Orbi seems more professional grade and you can add as many units as you want. If pool house to main house is a bit too far you could even put the all weather Orbi in between to bridge the gap.
About as close to using a repeater to extend coverage, adding an AP as a hop between two APs is just as bad. You never want to use an AP as another hop to extend connectivity to the ultimate end point AP if you can help it. The reason is this topology will cut your bandwidth performance in half for every hop you introduce.

This is why mesh wireless systems are designed to not have another hop in between so every connection is only point to point; not point to point to point.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
We might not be in an agreement on Trump, but I'll be the first penis chaser here to say I'll rather take it up in the ass than to argue with you on this.
Appreciate 0
      07-22-2018, 10:25 AM   #36
zx10guy
Lieutenant Colonel
1435
Rep
1,728
Posts

Drives: 2013 135i
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TS29849228 View Post
The power line adapter did not work. There's is some sort of connection issue between the pool house and main house.

The power line adapters we're working together in the same room when I tested them but once I moved the 2nd unit to the pool house it just didn't work.

My next option is to return this and buy the mesh system? I saw it at Best Buy for 350 to 500..... and I think google was one of the makers

:/
Powerline adapters typically only work if the adapters are sitting on the same electrical circuit, ie no circuit breaker in between. There are some powerline adapters that claim to be able to work across breakers. But I haven't seen one personally.

If you've read my posts, getting any of the wireless mesh systems like Google WiFi, Netgear Orbi, Linksys Velop, Eero, etc, you're going to run into a problem of wireless performance between access points as they all use omnidirectional antennas. If you want to use a wireless mesh, you need to spend the money and buy access points which support wireless mesh and can use external antennas which you'll be using directional antennas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TS29849228 View Post
Running a wire seems difficult....

We have concrete, trees and walls in between the pool house and main house sadly....
If you can't run the conduit, just pay for someone to do it. It's not impossible.

As someone stated in a previous reply, if you have the financial means to have a home with a separate pool house, you should be able to afford to pay to get this done properly.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
We might not be in an agreement on Trump, but I'll be the first penis chaser here to say I'll rather take it up in the ass than to argue with you on this.
Appreciate 1
      07-22-2018, 12:28 PM   #37
Bingobimmer
Captain
Bingobimmer's Avatar
91
Rep
622
Posts

Drives: e90 n54
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: On the road...

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Page 1 Chapter 1 of 1st world problems...
__________________
LOST BUT NOT FORGOTTEN 2009 E90 335i AW... Black grills/jb4/lux angel eyes/clear side reflectors/and a few more small mods

2011 e92 335iSSSS Black
Appreciate 1
      07-22-2018, 11:20 PM   #38
F80_M
Lieutenant Colonel
F80_M's Avatar
499
Rep
1,934
Posts

Drives: 2015 F80 M3
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tampa,Fl

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eluded View Post
Run fiber or have att put cell station in backyard
I run att fiber in my house right now and I get horrible WiFi service in the master bedroom.. any suggestions on fix?
Appreciate 1
      07-22-2018, 11:48 PM   #39
M_Six
Free Thinker
M_Six's Avatar
United_States
1849
Rep
6,433
Posts

Drives: 2012 MB C300 4matic
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Foothills of Mt Level

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingobimmer View Post
Page 1 Chapter 1 of 1st world problems...

True. So true. But even the 1% need tech advice.
__________________
Mark
markj.pics

"There is no shame in dropping fruit in your glass."
-UncleWede
Appreciate 1
      07-22-2018, 11:52 PM   #40
M_Six
Free Thinker
M_Six's Avatar
United_States
1849
Rep
6,433
Posts

Drives: 2012 MB C300 4matic
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Foothills of Mt Level

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by F80_M View Post
I run att fiber in my house right now and I get horrible WiFi service in the master bedroom.. any suggestions on fix?
The mesh wifi systems are awesome. I just set up my FIL's place with Google wifi so I could access admin services from several states away. But there are other options besides Google, and I don't blame anyone for wanting to shy away from Google branded stuff from a privacy standpoint. But check out the other mesh wifi devices.
__________________
Mark
markj.pics

"There is no shame in dropping fruit in your glass."
-UncleWede
Appreciate 1
      07-22-2018, 11:54 PM   #41
zx10guy
Lieutenant Colonel
1435
Rep
1,728
Posts

Drives: 2013 135i
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F80_M View Post
I run att fiber in my house right now and I get horrible WiFi service in the master bedroom.. any suggestions on fix?
AT&T's fiber run has nothing to do with WiFi.

Things that affect WiFi performance: distance, objects (materials between the access point and the client), interference, loading of the access point, to name some off the top of my head.

No one can provide any suggestions until you give more specifics about your environment such as how far is the wireless router from your master bedroom, how many walls are in between and what are the walls made of, how many other wireless networks are around you, etc.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
We might not be in an agreement on Trump, but I'll be the first penis chaser here to say I'll rather take it up in the ass than to argue with you on this.
Appreciate 1
      07-22-2018, 11:58 PM   #42
M_Six
Free Thinker
M_Six's Avatar
United_States
1849
Rep
6,433
Posts

Drives: 2012 MB C300 4matic
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Foothills of Mt Level

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
AT&T's fiber run has nothing to do with WiFi.

Things that affect WiFi performance: distance, objects (materials between the access point and the client), interference, loading of the access point, to name some off the top of my head.

No one can provide any suggestions until you give more specifics about your environment such as how far is the wireless router from your master bedroom, how many walls are in between and what are the walls made of, how many other wireless networks are around you, etc.
All true, but the mesh systems can fix all that. You may need more than the standard 3 part system, but mesh is the way to go, IMO.
__________________
Mark
markj.pics

"There is no shame in dropping fruit in your glass."
-UncleWede
Appreciate 1
      07-23-2018, 12:30 AM   #43
zx10guy
Lieutenant Colonel
1435
Rep
1,728
Posts

Drives: 2013 135i
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Six View Post
All true, but the mesh systems can fix all that. You may need more than the standard 3 part system, but mesh is the way to go, IMO.
Mesh systems are not a panacea either. WiFi is the equivalent of using a hub on an Ethernet network. Only one device can talk on the wire at a time. If more than one talks, a collision occurs which is very bad. Unless these manufacturers are doing something special, the wireless backhaul/mesh is subject to the same limitations.

The best thing to do is to pull cabling to points (or close to it) where an AP should be placed. And then use wireless equipment which function as a unified wireless network that are cabled. The second best thing would be a wireless mesh system. The third best is to use independent APs all set on the same SSID but each AP configured to use a non overlapping channel. And dead last would be using repeaters/range extenders.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
We might not be in an agreement on Trump, but I'll be the first penis chaser here to say I'll rather take it up in the ass than to argue with you on this.
Appreciate 1
      07-23-2018, 01:53 AM   #44
xQx
General
Australia
381
Rep
600
Posts

Drives: 2008 BMW 135i (E88 N54 6AT)
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Sunshine Coast QLD Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
If you can't run the conduit, just pay for someone to do it. It's not impossible.

As someone stated in a previous reply, if you have the financial means to have a home with a separate pool house, you should be able to afford to pay to get this done properly.
I just wanted to address this point first.

First, just because someone has a fancy big house and hangs out on the BMW forums, doesn't mean they've got heaps of spare cash. While there's a fair whack of people on these foums clearing half-a-mil per annum; I've no doubt there's a fair few people here who've shelled out for the initial investment, but not left a lot of headroom for the higher expenses that come with such fancy "investments".

Which is a long way of saying - just because OP has a Poolhouse, it's not really fair to assume they're flush with cash.

Secondly, if this is a lavish mansion with a poolhouse, you're probably not talking a simple $300 trench & fill job. ... There's probably paving, and i dunno... maybe a pool in the way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
Powerline adapters typically only work if the adapters are sitting on the same electrical circuit, ie no circuit breaker in between. There are some powerline adapters that claim to be able to work across breakers. But I haven't seen one personally.

If you've read my posts, getting any of the wireless mesh systems like Google WiFi, Netgear Orbi, Linksys Velop, Eero, etc, you're going to run into a problem of wireless performance between access points as they all use omnidirectional antennas. If you want to use a wireless mesh, you need to spend the money and buy access points which support wireless mesh and can use external antennas which you'll be using directional antennas.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This.

I'm trying to be polite about it, but a lot of people in this thread could pay to listen to what zx10guy is saying here. There are a lot of fancy, expensive, porcupine looking wireless routers on the market now, and a whole lot of brand name "mesh network" crap which you can feel free to spend thousands on getting your iPads hooked up to netflix around the house, but in reality are a single-radio wifi access point with some fancy management software. If you want to do a fast, reliable wireless connection in an outdoor area, you're best leaving those devices on the shelf.

For outdoor building links, you want a wireless network to act as a pseudo-wire. If you need devices in the house or in the pool house to connect to a wireless network, that's a separate thing.

For your outdoor link, you run a NETWORK CABLE from your Internet router to a specific point-to-point wireless access point which is mounted on the external wall of the house pointing toward the poolhouse. (ie. One of these ). You buy a SECOND ONE which is mounted on the external wall of the poolhouse, facing the one on the house, which will be the one and only wireless devices associated with the access point on your house.

Either, you connect the computer in the poolhouse to the nanobeam using a network cable, or you get a cheap shitty indoor access point (or a sparkling new googe mesh system) for the WiFi network inside the poolhouse (something like this).

If you don't have line of site from the poolhouse to the house, you find a third point which can be seen from both the poolhouse and the house, then you buy not one more, but TWO MORE nanobeams, connected with a network cable. One for the house link, one for the pool-house link.

You can have as many hops as you need to connect the network without it causing any performance issues, as long as you do it right to start with using point-to-point directional wireless links.

The Ubiquiti gear I've linked automatically finds free radio spectrum, is relatively easy to setup and is dirt cheap for the job it does. We use the nanobeams for sub 1km links, the powerbeams for 1-5km links and have an Airfibre link that's running more than 100Mbit/s over a 20km point to point link.
__________________
2008 BMW 135i Convertible 6AT (E88 N54) M Sport (BMS DCI, VRSF 7" Intercooler, VRSF CP, VRSF v2 DP, Turbosmart BOV, JB4 w/ Bluetooth Gauges, BMS E85 BEF, SmartTop Module, xHP Stage 3, BMS Cowl Filters, RB Inlets & Outlets, MFactory 1.5way LSD, Fuel-it Stage 2+ Bucketless)
Appreciate 1
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:49 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST