[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Z K

Again, that is looking at people charging at home. As pointed out earlier, the majority of cars are not garaged and so would not be able to charge at home. That makes charging an EV quite bigger chore than going to fill up at a gas station.



Yes, but as mentioned before, hydrogen efficiency is increasing. Just Mirai 1 to Mirai 2, they increased hydrogen usage efficiency over 50%. That's just within a few years! Producing hydrogen can get better as well. Japan is pushing this hard and they're making huge progress.

As for cost, as I said, you can plop hydrogen pumps at existing gas stations which is a fraction the cost of building a whole new facility. That is what most hydrogen stations are in California - a hydrogen pump at an existing gas station. And that cost of building a "charging station" is way exaggerated. It is only thousands because that one charging station can charge only a few cars. Plus hydrogen can be produced on site with solar power, there's no need to hook up to the power grid!

For example, Say it costs $100k to build a "charging station" aka a single charger, that charging station can charge maybe 2 cars an hour? Say a hydrogen station is $1M, that's 10x more. That single pump can fill up 30-40 cars an hour. That is still cheaper than the charging station and way more efficient at dispensing fuel/charging.

From what info I could find the estimate of $100k was to build an 8 stall Tesla supercharger. Makes sense since I would imagine most of the cost is the transformers or what not, the stalls themselves should be pretty cheap. I do not see how hydrogen would ever be cheaper to produce than electricity since you need electricity to make hydrogen. So at the very best it would be at least equal to the cost of electricity... assuming 100% efficiency going from electric to hydrogen and no added costs for the hydrogen conversion part.

Also filling a hydrogen car is not like pumping gas at all. I saw a video of some guy showing how to fill up a hydrogen car. It's significantly slower than gas, not as slow as electric, but definitely not as simple as gas. It seems more like filling propane than pumping gas and I don't know any place that lets you fill your own propane.

However it doesn't really matter at this point IMO. Betamax had better quality than VHS. However it still lost out. Once VHS became widely adopted betamax was done. Point being maybe hydrogen could be more efficient, maybe it could be cheaper, maybe more manufacturers will make hydrogen cars which would increase the likelihood of places investing in hydrogen stations... but it's not right now and BEVs now have a massive head start. Maybe some company in the future will do what Tesla did for BEVs and dump a bunch of money into building hydrogen cars and the infrastructure to support them (with gov help) but until that day I just don't see hydrogen taking off.

Maybe they will coexist. Dunno, but certainly not on at the top of my list of shit to worry about.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Not to mention, SUPER dangerous to handle.

The shit will never work.

BEV all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KRS_SN]

https://www.bmwgroup.com/en/news/gen...5Hydrogen.html



BMW iX5 Hydrogen with lithium-ion technology, the powertrain of this vehicle brings maximum output of 295 kW / 401 hp to the road. In drive and brake phases, this electric machine also takes on the function of a generator that feeds power back into a high-performance battery.

Together, they hold six kilograms of hydrogen, giving the BMW iX5 Hydrogen a range of 504 km in the WLTP cycle. Refuelling the hydrogen tanks takes only three to four minutes, meaning that the BMW iX5 Hydrogen delivers the driving pleasure you expect from BMW with just a few, short interim stops, even on long routes.

[Patton250]

Lucid for the win. My God it’s not even close. This will be my first EV for sure. Honestly, I feel a little silly for not paying better attention. This thing is luxurious, more horsepower, better looking, better range, and faster charging then Tesla. Then any EV. And don’t even get into the materials they use because it’s not really even fair to compare them. I’ve made no secret of the fact that I love Elon Musk mostly for what he did with Twitter, but he better start making some changes. He needs to use better materials and add back some buttons. He also needs to make his system, android, and Apple friendly.

This young man does a great job in this video. check it out.

[Murf the Surf]

JD Powers survey, growing number of those polled are adamant they won't buy an EV

https://driving.ca/auto-news/awards-...MjMzLjIyLjAuMA..

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

JD Powers survey, growing number of those polled are adamant they won't buy an EV

https://driving.ca/auto-news/awards-...MjMzLjIyLjAuMA..

I can believe that. Most Americans don’t take too kindly to being told what to do especially by gooberment.

[allinon72]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

JD Powers survey, growing number of those polled are adamant they won't buy an EV

https://driving.ca/auto-news/awards-...MjMzLjIyLjAuMA..

For the average non-car person, why would they have a compelling reason to switch? For most people, they only know the talking point that they're "better for the environment", but even if they believe that, a cursory internet search isn't likely to persuade them enough. People need a compelling, financial reason to switch over and it needs to be seamless. It has to go beyond the lifestyle phase and one that is practical for the average person.

I think we are quite a ways away from that.

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

The problem with hydrogen that no one considers is fuel storage and evaporation, called "boil-off". The US Dept of Energy has set goals along with the Society of Automotive Engineets (SAE) for 10% loss over a short duration (30 days). Hydrogen is a cryogenic fuel for fuel cell applications. Its liquid storage temp is -200some degrees and stored at 7,000 -10,000 psi. To engineer and manufacture fail-safe mass-production components is not going to be cheap.

I'd rather take my chances with a gasoline fire.

I was being TIC...If we believe we'll all be able to go bev by 2035 we also have to believe in hydrogen. Can't be selectively stupid.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Lucid for the win. My God it’s not even close. This will be my first EV for sure. Honestly, I feel a little silly for not paying better attention. This thing is luxurious, more horsepower, better looking, better range, and faster charging then Tesla. Then any EV. And don’t even get into the materials they use because it’s not really even fair to compare them. I’ve made no secret of the fact that I love Elon Musk mostly for what he did with Twitter, but he better start making some changes. He needs to use better materials and add back some buttons. He also needs to make his system, android, and Apple friendly.

This young man does a great job in this video. check it out.

They are pretty nice, although not a huge fan of the exterior design. The interior though is super nice. They have a showroom near a shopping plaza we go to and they always bring one out to the plaza for people to check out.

Unfortunately all their models are in the $100k+ range. If they had something to compete with the Model 3 and Y I would be all over it. Then again at that price point you also get the Tycan, although IMO at least on paper the Tycan specs just aren't up to par with the Lucid or Model S unless you go way over $100k. But IMO it's the nicest looking one.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

They are pretty nice, although not a huge fan of the exterior design. The interior though is super nice. They have a showroom near a shopping plaza we go to and they always bring one out to the plaza for people to check out.

Unfortunately all their models are in the $100k+ range. If they had something to compete with the Model 3 and Y I would be all over it. Then again at that price point you also get the Tycan, although IMO at least on paper the Tycan specs just aren't up to par with the Lucid or Model S unless you go way over $100k. But IMO it's the nicest looking one.

So in my view all the sedans now look pretty much the same. A Honda Civic. Just me, the Lucid seems quite nice but honestly not exactly the every man car that government is saying everyone needs to drive.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

So in my view all the sedans now look pretty much the same. A Honda Civic. Just me, the Lucid seems quite nice but honestly not exactly the every man car that government is saying everyone needs to drive.

I have noticed a trend lately where a lot of cars have what I call old man design cues. I can't quite describe it but some parts just have this old man car look to them. I have noticed it a lot in Hyundais and Genesis also. These weird oval steering wheels just kinda give me the heebeegeebees. Same with the puckered up rear ends Hyundai and Genesis seem to like. The trend of bar lights also... sometimes it can look good, but some times they just give me old man vibes. Dunno.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

They are pretty nice, although not a huge fan of the exterior design. The interior though is super nice. They have a showroom near a shopping plaza we go to and they always bring one out to the plaza for people to check out.

Unfortunately all their models are in the $100k+ range. If they had something to compete with the Model 3 and Y I would be all over it. Then again at that price point you also get the Tycan, although IMO at least on paper the Tycan specs just aren't up to par with the Lucid or Model S unless you go way over $100k. But IMO it's the nicest looking one.

Well, according to what I’ve read, they are going to come out with much less expensive versions of it. For whatever reason they wanted to start off at the high-end ones. Either way they charge faster and go further than any other electric vehicle. Plus, they are Apple CarPlay friendly. That’s a must for me to own any vehicle. Of course, they still face the same challenges as the rest of the EV market, and that is lack of charging stations, grid problems, and of course, most important in my opinion charging times.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

I was being TIC...If we believe we'll all be able to go bev by 2035 we also have to believe in hydrogen. Can't be selectively stupid.

Ah, gotcha. If we could just figure out a way to make electricity on board using a gasoline "fuel cell". Oh wait...

[MmmmmM2]

In before "2035 on the mooooove lol"

[BGM-M3COMP]

I like the enthusiasm over something that will never happen.

EV is our future take it or leave it lmaoooooo

Still on the move!!!!!

This is definitely the most entertaining thread I participated in. Love watching the destruction of emotions lmaoooooooooooooooooooo

[M5Rick]

2030-35? We're on a express elevator to hell,going down.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?sxsr...id:CCzD3ONQsmM

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by MmmmmM2

In before "2035 on the mooooove lol"

In before TAMPONS! LMAOOOOOooooo

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

2030-35? We're on a express elevator to hell,going down.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?sxsr...id:CCzD3ONQsmM

Nope. Express elevator to our beautiful future!!!!!!!

Ev baby!!!!!!

Lmaooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

https://www.bmwgroup.com/en/news/gen...5Hydrogen.html



BMW iX5 Hydrogen with lithium-ion technology, the powertrain of this vehicle brings maximum output of 295 kW / 401 hp to the road. In drive and brake phases, this electric machine also takes on the function of a generator that feeds power back into a high-performance battery.

Together, they hold six kilograms of hydrogen, giving the BMW iX5 Hydrogen a range of 504 km in the WLTP cycle. Refuelling the hydrogen tanks takes only three to four minutes, meaning that the BMW iX5 Hydrogen delivers the driving pleasure you expect from BMW with just a few, short interim stops, even on long routes.

After RS's pasting in the local you know what's, he must extend the EV deadline back to 2040 to stop the rot with a referendum to see if people want this.

[BGM-M3COMP]

I heard more V4 superchargers are on the way!

Errr sorry i mean on the move!!!

Improvements already being made!!! We can do this!!!!!!!!!!!

[ASAP]

Drove my friends brand new picked up Model Y Performance today... I have to say I was quite impressed.

At inital glance, well put together, no gaps, rattles or creaks... maybe the '23s fixed everything.

The thing is spaceship fast... it doesn't have the top end of say an M3 but it does trap 115 mph which is very fast for an SUV... but it's really the down low instant torque punch that is hard to describe... its almost painful lol.

A few things that are not my cup... the interior is very spartan but functional. The center screen is a little annoying in how it displays everything... and no carplay irritates me to no end. The brakes I also don't believe are up to par for a car w 535 HP... last - the auto braking on throtthle release is just super weird and annoying.

All else aside, I could see this as being my 2nd car if it was reliable.

[BGM-M3COMP]

They are unbeatable in the real world. That’s why everyone loves them.

I do hate not having apple car play but in the end that isn’t a deal breaker at all.

I have a 2022 with no rattles. They’re just getting better and better each year!!!

We’re moving in the right direction!!!!!