[dosboy1]

Hi All,

I have an 09 335i Xdrive and it has overheated twice in the last two days. Once I turn the car off for about 15 mins, it continues to drive fine. The first time, I was driving around 60km/hr and the second time I was in traffic moving slowly. The water pump and thermostat have been replaced about about 5000km ago, or less and about 8 months ago. I borrowed an ODB2 scanner from my friend and it's telling me that are no stored DTC codes. This scanner is just a regular one, do I need one specific for BMW? Could it be the coolant temperature sensor? That's an easy fix if it is.

The only thing that I have changed two days before was the vacuum boost tank. The previous tank was bypassed by connected the top and bottom hoses together. I don't think that would cause overheating. Also, the valve cover was changed about 3 or 4 weeks ago.

My next steps would be to run the bleeding process to make sure there's no air pockets. I find it weird that this would appear all of a sudden, and on two days that were not even hot out, 20 degrees celsius only.

I guess the pump could be faulty but i'll know when I run the bleed procedure today. Any feedback that you have would be greatly appreciated.

[Efthreeoh]

You need a BMW scan tool to diagnose why the engine is overheating. A OBD2 scan tool only checks for EPA emissions trouble codes.

[dosboy1]

Perfect, and thanks. My neighbour is a BMW enthusiast and I know he has the correct scanner. I'll see if I can borrow his tonight.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by dosboy1

... I have an 09 335i Xdrive and it has overheated twice in the last two days. [I presume you mean the Yellow or Red Engine Coolant Temp warning light has appeared? Please see below for details.] Once I turn the car off for about 15 mins, it continues to drive fine... I borrowed an ODB2 scanner from my friend and it's telling me that are no stored DTC codes.

Please indicate exactly HOW the "Overheat" condition was identified, by Warning Light (which one?), by audible "gurgling", by coolant loss, etc.
Please ALSO indicate Make/Model of Scan Tool available, and if you have a Multimeter.

If there was NO Loss of Coolant, AND there was NO sound of coolant boiling, you MAY have a Connector/ Wiring/ Sensor Fault in the ECTS (Engine Coolant Temp Sensor) circuit, causing a BOGUS signal as received by the DME. If you have an Infrared Thermometer (as cheap as $17 US, $23 CA, Amazon), you can compare Infrared Temp reading at ECTS housing with Live Data of ECTS (via Scan Tool or Hidden Menu 7.00) to determine if there is ACTUAL "Overheat" issue. There are also Multimeter tests of sensor & wiring that can determine nature/ cause of warning light/ condition.

As for Fault Codes, a Generic "P-Code Reader" can be helpful if it can display ECTS Value (Engine Temp Sensor signal) as "Live Data" or real-time display of Sensor signal as received by the DME. If your Scan Tool will NOT display that parameter as Live Data, you can read it on the Instrument Cluster lower display using "Hidden Menu 7.00":
https://www.carsaddiction.com/articl...er-hidden-menu

A "P-code Reader" can read ALL P-codes in the DME (Engine Control) Module. Unfortunately there is NO P-code equivalent for the 5 Coolant Pump Fault Codes which are ONLY in Hexadecimal format or Decimal, & require a tool that can read "Hex-codes" (some folks call them "BMW Codes" ;-). Those 5 Hex-codes are 2E81 through 2E85. INPA can read Decimal, Hexadecimal or P-code format fault codes, and when connected to DME Module, will display ALL three formats of same code where they exist.

I you have a Windows OS Laptop, you can use INPA or ISTA for $30 to $50 for a K+DCAN Cable to connect to OBD II Socket. You can use INPA to view LIVE DATA of Coolant Pump, T-Stat & E-Fan function, along with ECTS signal, to determine if EACH of those components is operating properly. You can use INPA "Activations" Screens to either View Live Data of those components while under DME Control, OR, you can Over-ride DME Control and set "Target" speeds/ conditions of components and observe function.

LOTS of folks throw parts without proper Diagnostic Testing, so please provide answers to questions above and we can suggest "Next Steps". If you have a wiring fault causing BOGUS "Overheat" warning light, you can throw every part from Pump/ T-Stat/ ECTS, etc. and STILL have the issue.
George

[marvinstockman]

Maybe your radiator fan is not coming on. Turn on the AC and make sure the fan runs. Do you overheat with the AC on?

[dosboy1]

Yes, apologies. The indicator was the yellow light saying that engine is hot and to drive moderately, and then about 5 seconds later the red overheat light came on and the care went into limp mode.

I do have a multimeter and I will borrow the code scanner tonight. After the first overheat, I did add a bit of coolant but not a lot to bring it to the top. I did initiate the bleeding process and I heard the pump doing what it's supposed to do, so I am guessing it could be a sensor or faulty wiring, perhaps. I'll know more tonight once I get the correct codes.

Thanks for this info, it's very helpful.

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Please indicate exactly HOW the "Overheat" condition was identified, by Warning Light (which one?), by audible "gurgling", by coolant loss, etc.
Please ALSO indicate Make/Model of Scan Tool available, and if you have a Multimeter.

If there was NO Loss of Coolant, AND there was NO sound of coolant boiling, you MAY have a Connector/ Wiring/ Sensor Fault in the ECTS (Engine Coolant Temp Sensor) circuit, causing a BOGUS signal as received by the DME. If you have an Infrared Thermometer (as cheap as $17 US, $23 CA, Amazon), you can compare Infrared Temp reading at ECTS housing with Live Data of ECTS (via Scan Tool or Hidden Menu 7.00) to determine if there is ACTUAL "Overheat" issue. There are also Multimeter tests of sensor & wiring that can determine nature/ cause of warning light/ condition.

As for Fault Codes, a Generic "P-Code Reader" can be helpful if it can display ECTS Value (Engine Temp Sensor signal) as "Live Data" or real-time display of Sensor signal as received by the DME. If your Scan Tool will NOT display that parameter as Live Data, you can read it on the Instrument Cluster lower display using "Hidden Menu 7.00":
https://www.carsaddiction.com/articl...er-hidden-menu

A "P-code Reader" can read ALL P-codes in the DME (Engine Control) Module. Unfortunately there is NO P-code equivalent for the 5 Coolant Pump Fault Codes which are ONLY in Hexadecimal format or Decimal, & require a tool that can read "Hex-codes" (some folks call them "BMW Codes" ;-). Those 5 Hex-codes are 2E81 through 2E85. INPA can read Decimal, Hexadecimal or P-code format fault codes, and when connected to DME Module, will display ALL three formats of same code where they exist.

I you have a Windows OS Laptop, you can use INPA or ISTA for $30 to $50 for a K+DCAN Cable to connect to OBD II Socket. You can use INPA to view LIVE DATA of Coolant Pump, T-Stat & E-Fan function, along with ECTS signal, to determine if EACH of those components is operating properly. You can use INPA "Activations" Screens to either View Live Data of those components while under DME Control, OR, you can Over-ride DME Control and set "Target" speeds/ conditions of components and observe function.

LOTS of folks throw parts without proper Diagnostic Testing, so please provide answers to questions above and we can suggest "Next Steps". If you have a wiring fault causing BOGUS "Overheat" warning light, you can throw every part from Pump/ T-Stat/ ECTS, etc. and STILL have the issue.
George

[dosboy1]

fan was running at high speed when both overheats happened. AC was not on in either situation.

Originally Posted by marvinstockman

Maybe your radiator fan is not coming on. Turn on the AC and make sure the fan runs. Do you overheat with the AC on?

[dosboy1]

Here are the codes. We cleared the old codes and then I took it for a drive to reproduce the issue. Once the car warmed up, the fan cam on very loud and high and i got the yellow engine hot light. At the time I turned on the heat in the car and the light turned off. I came home and ran the purge/bleed process and the pump is working and not making any grinding or strange noises. That process completed in about 12 mins. By looking at the codes, I am wondering if the battery has anything to do with it. Here are the codes.

[e91Owner]

You can easily test the operation of the water pump by removing the coolant cap on a coil engine and starting the bleed cycle.

If you aren’t familiar with it:

Turn ignition ON (do not start engine), set temperature controls in vehicle interior to full warm and blower fan speed to Low. Press accelerator pedal to floor and hold down for ten seconds. You should be able to hear it and see the coolant returning to the expansion tank.

If it does not come on, double check the electrical connections going into the water pump. If it has been recently replaced, it’s unlikely to have failed, although you would not be the first to have had a bad pump installed.

[mecheng77]

Check the ground screw for the water pump

Also check the wiring to the water pump

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by dosboy1

Here are the codes. We cleared the old codes and then I took it for a drive to reproduce the issue. Once the car warmed up, the fan cam on very loud and high and i got the yellow engine hot light. At the time I turned on the heat in the car and the light turned off. I came home and ran the purge/bleed process and the pump is working and not making any grinding or strange noises...

Questions:
1) WHEN were the three codes read (2E81, 2E83, 2E84)?
2) Codes read Before you did "Bleed Procedure", or AFTER?
3) What was mileage/km on odometer when you did the Bleed Procedure? ALL 3 codes occurred at 192032 km.
4) Was Battery Charger attached with at least 6A output during Bleed Procedure?
5) Can ProTool do Coolant Pump Activation at ~ 50% max speed and at ~ 95% of max speed?
6) If so, what are a) "Actual Speed" & b) target speed in those tests (Charger Connected)?
7) Are there any OTHER DME Fault Codes besides 2E81, 2E83, 2E84?

ProTool, INPA, ISTA will display ACTUAL Coolant Pump Speed, E-Fan Speed %, and ECTS Temp Signal as received by DME. You do NOT have to guess what those Parameters ARE. You can also use Infrared Thermometer to check ECTS housing temp, to see if ECTS signal is BOGUS. With NO Tools, you can simply run engine with Coolant Reservoir Cap removed, and watch for coolant flow from small return line.

Do any Activation test with Battery Charger attached at Jumpstart Terminals, Engine OFF, Ignition ON. "Speed Deviation" as reported by 2E81 Fault Code is when Coolant Pump does NOT run at, or sufficiently NEAR, the "Target Speed" requested by DME or "Activation"/ Trigger with ProTool.

Not sure what you "turned on" when you say you turned on heat and yellow Engine Coolant Temp warning light turned OFF. If the coolant pump were NOT working due to a pump fault, "turning on heat" would NOT reduce coolant temp.

My SWAG from data produced to date is that you have an intermittent wiring/connector issue, rather than a component issue. While that is CHEAPER to "Fix", it requires proper Diagnostic Tools, knowledge, & THOUGHT to identify the source of the fault.
George

[dosboy1]

We cleared the codes (2E81, 2E83, 2E84) and then I took the car out to drive to reproduce the overheat, so those codes are the latest after the yellow engine hot light came one.

I did the bleed procedure after those codes and I was connected to a charger but it was set at the 2A trickle charge. should I bleed again with the charger set at a higher amp?

for questions 5 and 6, I'll have to ask my friend to come back with Protool to see if any of that can be done.

After I did the bleed procedure, I did take the car out for a drive and I activated the hidden menu to see the water coolant temperature. This time the car did not overheat after driving for about 20 minutes and the temperature reached a high of 108 degrees Celsius which is 226 degrees farenheit.

The mileage is correct all those codes seem to be generated when the yellow engine hot light came on.

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Questions:
1) WHEN were the three codes read (2E81, 2E83, 2E84)?
2) Codes read Before you did "Bleed Procedure", or AFTER?
3) What was mileage/km on odometer when you did the Bleed Procedure? ALL 3 codes occurred at 192032 km.
4) Was Battery Charger attached with at least 6A output during Bleed Procedure?
5) Can ProTool do Coolant Pump Activation at ~ 50% max speed and at ~ 95% of max speed?
6) If so, what are a) "Actual Speed" & b) target speed in those tests (Charger Connected)?
7) Are there any OTHER DME Fault Codes besides 2E81, 2E83, 2E84?

ProTool, INPA, ISTA will display ACTUAL Coolant Pump Speed, E-Fan Speed %, and ECTS Temp Signal as received by DME. You do NOT have to guess what those Parameters ARE. You can also use Infrared Thermometer to check ECTS housing temp, to see if ECTS signal is BOGUS. With NO Tools, you can simply run engine with Coolant Reservoir Cap removed, and watch for coolant flow from small return line.

Do any Activation test with Battery Charger attached at Jumpstart Terminals, Engine OFF, Ignition ON. "Speed Deviation" as reported by 2E81 Fault Code is when Coolant Pump does NOT run at, or sufficiently NEAR, the "Target Speed" requested by DME or "Activation"/ Trigger with ProTool.

Not sure what you "turned on" when you say you turned on heat and yellow Engine Coolant Temp warning light turned OFF. If the coolant pump were NOT working due to a pump fault, "turning on heat" would NOT reduce coolant temp.

My SWAG from data produced to date is that you have an intermittent wiring/connector issue, rather than a component issue. While that is CHEAPER to "Fix", it requires proper Diagnostic Tools, knowledge, & THOUGHT to identify the source of the fault.
George

[e91Owner]

When you did the bleed procedure, did it actually bleed? Did you see the fluid returning to the expansion tank? Just doing the procedure doesn’t tell you if it’s actually operating.

Also, the purpose of the charger is just to prevent draining your battery while the pump is operating with the alternator off. You don’t need to bleed it, per se, just observe operation. If you’ve been driving for months after a pump replacement, it’s already bled.

[whyzee125]

If it was working fine before the other day, it sounds like your water pump is likely failing again.

[dosboy1]

I did the bleed after the last overheat. I did hear the pump working but I didn't open the tank to verify. I will confirm that, this weekend. Pump and t-stat were replaced in October and I have put maybe 5000 kms on the car since.

Originally Posted by e91Owner

When you did the bleed procedure, did it actually bleed? Did you see the fluid returning to the expansion tank? Just doing the procedure doesn’t tell you if it’s actually operating.

Also, the purpose of the charger is just to prevent draining your battery while the pump is operating with the alternator off. You don’t need to bleed it, per se, just observe operation. If you’ve been driving for months after a pump replacement, it’s already bled.

[dosboy1]

That would really suck if that's the case. Cost $1500 to do the pump and T-stat only in October and haven't put much miles on the car since. it's an Xdrive too, so the pump replacement is quite a bit more involved.

Originally Posted by whyzee125

If it was working fine before the other day, it sounds like your water pump is likely failing again.

[e91Owner]

Originally Posted by dosboy1

That would really suck if that's the case. Cost $1500 to do the pump and T-stat only in October and haven't put much miles on the car since. it's an Xdrive too, so the pump replacement is quite a bit more involved.

It’s honestly not that bad. There’s a little less room, but other than that, not much different than a RWD car. Of course anything is easier on a lift. Doing it on your back, it’s a pain either way. Given it’s so recent, hopefully your repair would be under a warranty.

[whyzee125]

Originally Posted by dosboy1

That would really suck if that's the case. Cost $1500 to do the pump and T-stat only in October and haven't put much miles on the car since. it's an Xdrive too, so the pump replacement is quite a bit more involved.

That price sounds like it was done at a shop, right? Should be under warranty!

[Daaaaaaaan]

What pump and T-stat did your mechanic install?

[dosboy1]

I'm not sure, TBH.

Originally Posted by Daaaaaaaan

What pump and T-stat did your mechanic install?

[dosboy1]

Update.

Since I did the bleed procedure last week, the car has not overheated since. i even had the AC topped up and ran with the AC on and no overheat. I accessed the hidden menu and the coolant temp ranges between 99 and 108 degrees celsius. I'm assuming that's a normal operating range as I have read that these cars do run hot.

[mecheng77]

Originally Posted by dosboy1

Update.

Since I did the bleed procedure last week, the car has not overheated since. i even had the AC topped up and ran with the AC on and no overheat. I accessed the hidden menu and the coolant temp ranges between 99 and 108 degrees celsius. I'm assuming that's a normal operating range as I have read that these cars do run hot.

Those are normal temps

Was there an air pocket?