[gmrb6391]

Has anyone here tried using this Toyota seal in conjunction with the OE Elring oil pan gasket? I am willing to be the guinea pig.

Part Numbers:
Toyota - $16 - 0029500103
BMW - $29 - 11137548031

[whyzee125]

This is a very good idea and I think it'll work well.

[Welcome to NBA Jam]

Don't see how it could hurt

[TunafishE93]

While the BMW oil pan gasket is prone to failure. The gasket maker can hurt. If the excess gets onto the oil system., it might be a problem. A leaking gasket is not too much of a problem but a clogged oil pump is a new engine. Pick your issue.

[whyzee125]

Originally Posted by TunafishE93

While the BMW oil pan gasket is prone to failure. The gasket maker can hurt. If the excess gets onto the oil system., it might be a problem. A leaking gasket is not too much of a problem but a clogged oil pump is a new engine. Pick your issue.

You'd have to be pretty incompetent to ruin an engine by using RTV. All Toyota engines have this from the factory and lots of people have redone it with no issues. OFHG would be a different story as there's lots of ports and passages where oil and coolant needs to travel through but the oil pan is no issue.

[ryan stewart]

I use RTV as a gasket on my race motorcycle. Less is more but it works fine. Just give it a minute to firm up before mounting and a day before running to cure.

Just make it a thin coating and nothing will push out to break off. And for the oil pan it's the sump where crap gets filtered when picked up anyway

[TunafishE93]

you have to be "incompetent" to use RTV as a seal. First you say that if its at ofg it might be an issue.. Well where do you think that gets its pressure?? The oil pan that could send goop up there. Don't be an idiot.

[E92_William]

The main issue with these oil pan gaskets seems to be the lack of rubber in them that just degrades into nothing over time. This should help a lot, hell I think just rtv all around would be better. I would try and get a gasket that isn't elring though as I had my ofhg from them leak less than 20k after replacing it

[TunafishE93]

Any extra gunk in there is a issue, period. This is why we see so much bearing failure. Its just bad advice. Its better to leak than ruin the engine. But what do I know.

[mainbearing]

Permatex Ultra Black would be more pliable and is what I plan to use. I also contemplated just using the RTV without the pan gasket, but will plan to use the gasket with a light coat of RTV.

Part of BMW's sealing problems may be the use of inferior rubber on these gaskets. On the OFHG for example, Uro has a premium version using Viton rubber and extra little tabs to help support the gasket (Elring one does not have these little tabs). I wonder if that Uro Premium one is made in Japan as others mentioned being the final fix. I guess the standard material BMW used might be poly-acrylates. BMW should send its engineers to Japan to study.

Here is the thread on the pan gasket and RTV:
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=71

Viton example, made in US it says:
https://www.amazon.com/URO-Filter-Ad.../dp/B08854N8TD

My oil pan gasket post:
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showp...&postcount=327

[ryan stewart]

Originally Posted by TunafishE93

Any extra gunk in there is a issue, period. This is why we see so much bearing failure. Its just bad advice. Its better to leak than ruin the engine. But what do I know.

I dont know how this seal packing works but a quality RTV applied properly is how race bikes, planes, etc are all buttoned up. I doubt Ducati would actually specify their own RTV gasket maker to dealers for service if it was going to trash bearings of something that spins over 10k rpm.

The only complaint I have ever had is getting the damned thing off when its time to redo the clutch.

[neilvan]

IMO this is a very good idea. Lots of manufacturers/Engines use mostly RTV to seal the pan and bottom end parts (I build performance engines as a part time/side job)

When I do mine I will be using a thin bead of oil resistant RTV. Ill be putting it where the metal part of the pan seal is so that overtime if the rubber degrades it doesnt take the RTV with it or open part up. Also good advice stated already to wait until it fully cures for operation

[E92_William]

Maybe people should start using that loctite sealant that goes injected in between the bed plate and the block on these engines, I've never seen that leak!

[jwalker87]

I've started using Permatex Copper RTV on any seal that touches oil. VERY thin coating. At the very least, it helps hold the gasket in place while you mate the pieces!

Similarly, I use a very thin film of Dow Corning 111 on any coolant system connections and o-rings. Helps them come back apart later as well as mate up smoothly.

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by TunafishE93

you have to be "incompetent" to use RTV as a seal. First you say that if its at ofg it might be an issue.. Well where do you think that gets its pressure?? The oil pan that could send goop up there. Don't be an idiot.

So the manufacturers who use a type of sealant instead of a gasket (many Asian car manufacturers) are incompetent?

You have to be an idiot to put enough RTV, then not let it cure, in order to cause it to get anywhere near the bearings or oil pump. In fact there is more of a chance of old seals breaking down and pieces getting into the oil pan compared to a thin layer of sealant on a gasket doing any harm.

[The Nightman]

How about anaerobic sealants such as Loctite 510 or 518? Volvo uses them instead of gaskets. They only cure in the absence of air so excess sealant won't clog anything. 510 is more heat and chemical resistant while 518 actually gets stronger when exposed to oil.

https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/ca/...ctite_510.html
https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/ca/...ctite_518.html

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by E92_William

Maybe people should start using that loctite sealant that goes injected in between the bed plate and the block on these engines, I've never seen that leak!

I hate to say it, but I think mine might have just started leaking at the bed plate. Just saw it last weekend. Didn't have time to investigate.

But my OPG I replaced 5 years ago and over 100,000 miles old now, is still leak free. I used Ultra Black on it.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by jwalker87

I've started using Permatex Copper RTV on any seal that touches oil. VERY thin coating. At the very least, it helps hold the gasket in place while you mate the pieces!

Similarly, I use a very thin film of Dow Corning 111 on any coolant system connections and o-rings. Helps them come back apart later as well as mate up smoothly.

This brings up a subject. So the manual transmission N52s use a steel oil pan. The pan is bolted to a magnesium engine block. The OPG gasket also has to keep the two metals separated. Going RTV sans gasket with the steel pan might not be a good idea.

[E91WAG3N]

Not an E9X but I recently bought an E39 from a friend. He did the oil pan gasket and used Toyota sealant on it about 4 years ago. It was bleeding oil everywhere when I bought it (I knew prior to buying). My guess is that the sealant got hard and cracked or wasn't forming a seal anymore which was allowing the oil to gush out. Honestly one of the worst oil pan leaks I've seen on a running and driving car.

I ended up going with an OEM gasket and the 4 recommended drops of sealant per BMW's recommendation on M54. After a few weeks and a few hundred miles it's bone dry so far. Fingers crossed!

[mainbearing]

Good point. That was my original thinking in using only RTV without dealing with the inferior rubber gasket. However, I have the pan gasket and will use both, and will make sure RTV is on the metal parts of the pan gasket serving as the "primary" seal.

Originally Posted by neilvan

When I do mine I will be using a thin bead of oil resistant RTV. Ill be putting it where the metal part of the pan seal is so that overtime if the rubber degrades it doesnt take the RTV with it or open part up. Also good advice stated already to wait until it fully cures for operation

[fastboatster]

I think it’s totally optional to use rtv on the gasket. Figured if it held up for 10 years and 80-100kmiles it’ll serve long enough for most people doing the replacement. I wouldn’t use rtv instead of the gasket because it might mess up the alignment of transmission bellhousing bolt holes with the bolt holes in the oil pan, the gasket is decently thick to make those holes misaligned. I don’t think that regular rtv would last longer either. That other German brand vehicle I have uses rtv on the lower oil pan gasket and upper timing chain covers and after 10 years these are reliably leaking and just more work to clean up and apply correctly. Anaerobic sealants as used on the bead plate sound promising though.

[whyzee125]

Originally Posted by TunafishE93

you have to be "incompetent" to use RTV as a seal. First you say that if its at ofg it might be an issue.. Well where do you think that gets its pressure?? The oil pan that could send goop up there. Don't be an idiot.

So every Toyota engineer is an idiot? Do tell how you got so smart.

You must be kidding if you really think people using RTV is what's causing bearing issues on these cars.