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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > N52 engine build :)



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      03-16-2019, 11:08 AM   #287
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Interestingly that car appears to use a CSL style airbox with (modified?) S54 throttle bodies. So really no less work than what Hass is attempting
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      03-16-2019, 11:22 AM   #288
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yeah, those look like S54 throttles to me too.

I'm not planning on doing 'ITBS' because I think the stock throttle is too small, I know as well as you that just bolting on 'ITBS' doesn't usually result in gains. But I looked at a number of things, and in order to get an airbox like I'd like (basically what you posted above), I'd have to custom make an adapter anyway. So basically it's a cheap/simple way to mount the airbox.

The hose clamp idea would be fine, except the port shape is oval and the airbox has round outlets. I just don't think that would work very well. The S54 throttles already have a nicely designed taper from the round to oval shape - it's already proven and battle tested.

And then you still need to deal with mounting the throttle plate somewhere, and it has to be before the filter. It just doesn't make sense IMO, because it's just as much work and it's probably not as good.

Since I'm not using a MAF, I don't care about that placement of the throttle. What the S54 throttles would allow is bolting up that airbox and you're basically done. The stock DME can control the S54 throttle motor, basically you'd just copy all the settings from MSS70.

The original plan was to do something similar to what you posted; I already have an N52 manifold I cut apart. I wasn't going to run any throttle at all - I'm sure it would work well, but I'm just not comfortable having no safe backup in case of a Valvetronic failure.
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      03-16-2019, 12:48 PM   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
The stock DME can control the S54 throttle motor, basically you'd just copy all the settings from MSS70.
Still not sure about this one. BMW did change the pins that power the throttle bodies on the MSS70 to thicker ones, and the corresponding wiring is also thicker. Does suggest that there's perhaps more current going through than the MSV70 throttle pins can handle.
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      11-30-2019, 08:20 PM   #290
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Any updates on the build?
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      04-18-2021, 10:18 AM   #291
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I created a DIY on how to rebuild the n52b25 engine, including the cylinder head disassembly, intake and exhaust camshaft removal, DIY valvetronic removal etc. You can view all the videos here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...hSxzbRgM83Yppw
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      04-19-2021, 09:09 AM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuildAndDrive View Post
I created a DIY on how to rebuild the n52b25 engine, including the cylinder head disassembly, intake and exhaust camshaft removal, DIY valvetronic removal etc. You can view all the videos here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...hSxzbRgM83Yppw
Did you split the block and replace the main bearings? That's really the only thing about rebuilding these that seems challenging. it's why mine is mostly just sitting on a stand - but I have been working on making some parts I need to run the S54 throttles.
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      04-19-2021, 11:23 AM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
Did you split the block and replace the main bearings? That's really the only thing about rebuilding these that seems challenging. it's why mine is mostly just sitting on a stand - but I have been working on making some parts I need to run the S54 throttles.
You have been talking about those S54 TBís on N52 for a long time. Glad you are still pursuing it, will be interesting to see how you get everything mated.

I heard some chatter about running N55 exhaust rollers on the N52 to get a small bump in valve opening, all without doing the work of a cam swap. Do you know if anyone has tried it yet? I think I read itís like 0.3mm more valve opening.
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      04-19-2021, 12:53 PM   #294
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Last time I compared part numbers, N55 exhaust rollers are identical to the N52 (I could be remembering wrong, but I'm pretty sure most of the valvetronic parts are the same, except for the eccentric shaft/drive motor). The only engine I could find any differences in was the S55, and even that is mostly the same. I wanted to order a couple rocker arms to see what the differences are - I'm betting it's mostly changes in strength/weight than geometry though.

Yeah, I've been working on prototype parts with my 3D printer. It stalled for a while during Christmas, and then I accidentally bricked the printer's CPU.. got that working again, I want to pick up some cheap material to waste on prototypes because there are a lot of problems to solve.

Mostly, it's the alignment of all the bolts that's a total bitch, and trying to clear the oil filter housing. I've got the fitment of the ports/taper etc. done but now I have to make something that fits (and decide if I want to use high temperature 3D printing materials, or pay to get it machined out of aluminum).

Edit: ah, it was the N55/S55 that shared the exhaust roller. Regardless, I did want to order one and see what the difference was. Did somebody already do that? The N52 shares exhaust rollers with the N54 though, and the N52/N55 share the intake. S55 also has a different intermediate roller, but the main roller is the same as N52/N55.

Last edited by hassmaschine; 04-19-2021 at 01:03 PM..
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      04-19-2021, 01:13 PM   #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
Last time I compared part numbers, N55 exhaust rollers are identical to the N52 (I could be remembering wrong, but I'm pretty sure most of the valvetronic parts are the same, except for the eccentric shaft/drive motor). The only engine I could find any differences in was the S55, and even that is mostly the same. I wanted to order a couple rocker arms to see what the differences are - I'm betting it's mostly changes in strength/weight than geometry though.

Yeah, I've been working on prototype parts with my 3D printer. It stalled for a while during Christmas, and then I accidentally bricked the printer's CPU.. got that working again, I want to pick up some cheap material to waste on prototypes because there are a lot of problems to solve.

Mostly, it's the alignment of all the bolts that's a total bitch, and trying to clear the oil filter housing. I've got the fitment of the ports/taper etc. done but now I have to make something that fits (and decide if I want to use high temperature 3D printing materials, or pay to get it machined out of aluminum).

Edit: ah, it was the N55/S55 that shared the exhaust roller. Regardless, I did want to order one and see what the difference was. Did somebody already do that? The N52 shares exhaust rollers with the N54 though, and the N52/N55 share the intake. S55 also has a different intermediate roller, but the main roller is the same as N52/N55.
There’s a thread on ***********s (EDIT: a forum for people who are “addicts of boost” lol) with a bunch of info which I don’t think I can link, but that I am quoting this from:

“While I agree that the N52 and N54 rocker ratio is 1.66, I measured the N55 cam and deduced the rocker ratio to be 1.72. The part numbers also suggest that the N55 uses different rockers (rollers). N52 and N54 vehicles use the same rollers but the N55 part number is different. Why am I talking about roller ratio? Because this ratio directly impacts the amount of valve lift produce by the cam.”

“ While each engine produces very similar exhaust profiles in their respective engine, the finding pertaining to the N55 rocker ratio suggests that, by swapping an N52 exhaust cam into an N55, the resulting valve lift will indeed be higher. The number crunching can be seen in the screenshot of my quick Excel spreadsheet posted above. I found that this mod would result in about 10mm of lift which is .3mm more than stock.”

I’ve been asking around and haven’t found anyone who has tried the parts or even actually measured a set in hand. There may be someone out there who has and I would love for them to pipe in lol
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      04-19-2021, 01:35 PM   #296
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Interesting, if the rocker ratio is different on the exhaust, I wonder if the ratio on the S55 intermediate roller could be different as well. It looks like you should get just over 10mm on the exhaust cam with that ratio though.
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      04-25-2021, 12:07 PM   #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlow98 View Post
The N52 in the E36 chassis really makes the S50/52 extinct.
With S52s stock drying up and prices climbing, this is likely going to be more popular since power is similar and it's a reliable engine. My buddy and I are both plotting going down that road long term, so curious on the developments in this thread.
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      04-25-2021, 09:53 PM   #298
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RWH11385.. Robert H? (I think!)

We've nearly got Steve's E30 swap dialed in. He's headed to a dyno tomorrow to sort out some fueling, but we finally figured out how to trigger the Valvetronic learning (it was stuck with error 2A39). and it's a way dumber solution than it would seem. Swapping into an E36 should be similar, although simpler because you don't need the modified oil pan.
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      04-30-2021, 05:22 PM   #299
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So this arrived today...

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      04-30-2021, 10:34 PM   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
So this arrived today...


Hi,

what is your idea??? What benefits do you expect by swapping these rockers?

Do you think that it will match well with Milvs?

you will really push the limits of the N52

Thanks
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      05-01-2021, 12:31 AM   #301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
So this arrived today...
Amazing stuff! Are you going to fit to your car or do you have an engine you can test on before? Look forward to seeing the results.
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      05-01-2021, 06:23 AM   #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ornicar View Post
Hi,

what is your idea??? What benefits do you expect by swapping these rockers?

Do you think that it will match well with Milvs?

you will really push the limits of the N52

Thanks
This was not my idea but a few people have hypothesized about it, I posted details a few posts up above.
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      05-01-2021, 06:26 AM   #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonwilli View Post
Amazing stuff! Are you going to fit to your car or do you have an engine you can test on before? Look forward to seeing the results.
I asked hassmaschine if I could send them to him for him to take a few measurements since he has an engine apart. So he said he would fit them to a head and see if they do in fact open the exhaust valves more.

They are a different part number from the N52/54 exhaust rollers but they might be a material change, or some other change that does nothing on our motors. Only one way to find out, fit them and measure.
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      05-01-2021, 11:23 AM   #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
They are a different part number from the N52/54 exhaust rollers but they might be a material change, or some other change that does nothing on our motors. Only one way to find out, fit them and measure.
Yeah was looking on RealOEM and saw that they are different part numbers. Will be interesting what you find out, keep us posted
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